Impossible to recover

[KBD]

Cant do it guys, its been almost a month and im seeing my size deplete and i can promise you its not my head, Tape measure shows and so does the scale.

Now im losing motivation to do shit.

I use to get so pumped up working out, i didnt get one fucking pump this week.

Im better off being on TRT, i dont think ill ever recover. IGF was a waste of money its not doing its fucxking job and neither is clomid. Fuck the world.

Im seriously depressed, had the dcotor prescribe me medication for anxiety, cause im fucking about to go crazy.

Yet my libido is higher and my bench is stronger. Makes NO sense.

 

[Kenspin]

Don't worry about it KBD bro. You're a fucking beast.
Keep training hard and tearing up women. I'm sure everything will look up in time man.

 

[Bill Roberts]

It's not a lot of money to find out what is going on. One can get, on the Internet, a prescription for a lab test for estradiol and free testosterone and quickly get results.

With that, a course of action can be figured. Without it, some remedy could be guessed but it could be the wrong one for the actual situation.

Can you give the stats on your cycle and the PCT plan again?

 

[KBD]

It's not a lot of money to find out what is going on. One can get, on the Internet, a prescription for a lab test for estradiol and free testosterone and quickly get results.

With that, a course of action can be figured. Without it, some remedy could be guessed but it could be the wrong one for the actual situation.

Can you give the stats on your cycle and the PCT plan again?

Well i was on for a year, ran several compounds.

My PCT is

100mg Clomid a day, plan running 6 weeks, due to a long cycle.

IGF-1 LR3 100mcg a day for a month then gonna switch to GHRP-6 150mcg 3x a day.

Was gonna do Sarms but idk if that suppresses HPTA.

 

[MindlessWork]

Don't worry about it KBD bro. You're a fucking beast.
Keep training hard and tearing up women. I'm sure everything will look up in time man.

This...and it takes time for the stuff to kick in and the body to stabilize

Don't give up yet, KBD

 

[Bill Roberts]

Well i was on for a year, ran several compounds.

My PCT is

100mg Clomid a day, plan running 6 weeks, due to a long cycle.

IGF-1 LR3 100mcg a day for a month then gonna switch to GHRP-6 150mcg 3x a day.

Was gonna do Sarms but idk if that suppresses HPTA.

I would rather do low-dose Masteron or for that matter testosterone with estrogen being controlled by an AI, than use a SARM.

I don't think 100 mg/day Clomid is any better than 50 mg/day, assuming either a frontload has been used or three days have been allowed at the 100 mg/day dose, and then going to 50 mg/day.

The thing is, you want to know what the situation is. If no HCG was used during all that time then it could well be the case that even on restoring LH, testosterone won't be good. In that event, HCG should be run now. But there is no way to say exactly what should be done without the test results.

It isn't necessary to punish the system with savagely low testosterone post-cycle to recover. But without lab values it's impossible to know whether that is what is happening or not, or what the best means of correcting this is.

 

[KBD]

I would rather do low-dose Masteron or for that matter testosterone with estrogen being controlled by an AI, than use a SARM.

I don't think 100 mg/day Clomid is any better than 50 mg/day, assuming either a frontload has been used or three days have been allowed at the 100 mg/day dose, and then going to 50 mg/day.

The thing is, you want to know what the situation is. If no HCG was used during all that time then it could well be the case that even on restoring LH, testosterone won't be good. In that event, HCG should be run now. But there is no way to say exactly what should be done without the test results.

It isn't necessary to punish the system with savagely low testosterone post-cycle to recover. But without lab values it's impossible to know whether that is what is happening or not, or what the best means of correcting this is.

I did run HCG, im done with it now but it was ran.

So 50mg clomid a day.

When should i get a lab test done? After clomid?

And im not running SARMS i was just askin haha.

 

[Bill Roberts]

Here are the issues at hand, not in any order of importance:

1) Can the testes produce T in reasonable amounts in response to LH stimulation?

If not, then recovery will be frustrating because even as LH begins to recover, T lags.

If HCG is still in the system then a test at the present moment will give the answer to this. If no T is being supplied by injection or any other means, but T levels are something reasonable given the amount of HCG that is likely to still be present and any LH that is measured, then testicular responsiveness is at least reasonable.

If no HCG is in the system and LH is very low, then we can only get a prompt answer to this question by taking HCG and seeing what happens to T levels.

If previous experience made it seem that HCG was normalizing T levels even though there was no measurement taken, then question 1 wouldn't be at the top of our priorities.

2) Is E2 high enough that it could account for heavy suppression? This may or may not be relevant when using Clomid: it is overwhelmingly relevant when not using a SERM.

3) Is free T in fact very low, or is it actually okay? Some feel they are having a poor recovery but actually they have good T and there is another problem that is the true cause of the problems experienced.

4) What is the LH value? This is the true measure of hypothalamic/pituitary (as a system) recovery.

If the situation is that the testes are responsive and will produce good T with moderate HCG stimulation, but LH is very low and testosterone is very low and has been for quite some time, then in that situation I would avoid the punishing situation of chronically very low testosterone and supplement, so to speak, with low dose injectable testosterone (100 mg total per week) with aromatase inhibitor sufficient to keep E2 levels at low-normal; or Masteron, while continuing SERM use. The added androgen doesn't help recovery but I doubt it is a major impediment provided that elevated estrogen levels are prevented.

The very lengthy cycle is harder to recover from and for this reason "toughing it out" in terms of avoiding any androgen support could be too severe. On the other hand, too much androgen support will result in recovery probably never happening, so care is required.

 

[KBD]

Here are the issues at hand, not in any order of importance:

1) Can the testes produce T in reasonable amounts in response to LH stimulation?

If not, then recovery will be frustrating because even as LH begins to recover, T lags.

If HCG is still in the system then a test at the present moment will give the answer to this. If no T is being supplied by injection or any other means, but T levels are something reasonable given the amount of HCG that is likely to still be present and any LH that is measured, then testicular responsiveness is at least reasonable.

If no HCG is in the system and LH is very low, then we can only get a prompt answer to this question by taking HCG and seeing what happens to T levels.

If previous experience made it seem that HCG was normalizing T levels even though there was no measurement taken, then question 1 wouldn't be at the top of our priorities.

2) Is E2 high enough that it could account for heavy suppression? This may or may not be relevant when using Clomid: it is overwhelmingly relevant when not using a SERM.

3) Is free T in fact very low, or is it actually okay? Some feel they are having a poor recovery but actually they have good T and there is another problem that is the true cause of the problems experienced.

4) What is the LH value? This is the true measure of hypothalamic/pituitary (as a system) recovery.

If the situation is that the testes are responsive and will produce good T with moderate HCG stimulation, but LH is very low and testosterone is very low and has been for quite some time, then in that situation I would avoid the punishing situation of chronically very low testosterone and supplement, so to speak, with low dose injectable testosterone (100 mg total per week) with aromatase inhibitor sufficient to keep E2 levels at low-normal; or Masteron, while continuing SERM use. The added androgen doesn't help recovery but I doubt it is a major impediment provided that elevated estrogen levels are prevented.

The very lengthy cycle is harder to recover from and for this reason "toughing it out" in terms of avoiding any androgen support could be too severe. On the other hand, too much androgen support will result in recovery probably never happening, so care is required.

Well my libido is higher than it was on AAS, and my strength levels are up more even at a loss of weight. I was 207 on dbol benching 390 for a bench press

Now ive been off dbol for almost a month (and all androgens) and im 195lbs PAUSE benching 380 with no hump. Which means lb for lb i have gotten stronger.

Without the presence of testosterone how could this happen?

IGF-1 LR3 is what im supplementing my PCT with.

I used HCG for 3 weeks, are you saying i should do another RUN of HCG during PCT?

And were you saying i should supplement a low dose of test (100mg ew) during PCT?

That wouldnt help recovery would it.

 

[Bill Roberts]

Well my libido is higher than it was on AAS, and my strength levels are up more even at a loss of weight. I was 207 on dbol benching 390 for a bench press

Now ive been off dbol for almost a month (and all androgens) and im 195lbs PAUSE benching 380 with no hump. Which means lb for lb i have gotten stronger.

Without the presence of testosterone how could this happen?

IGF-1 LR3 is what im supplementing my PCT with.

I used HCG for 3 weeks, are you saying i should do another RUN of HCG during PCT?

And were you saying i should supplement a low dose of test (100mg ew) during PCT?

That wouldnt help recovery would it.

If your ability of the testes to produce T was restored from that 3 week treatment -- which I don't know - - then I wouldn't recommend resuming HCG.

I was saying that IF the lab values and the time frame involved -- both in how long the cycle was which would make it not unlikely that recovery might be prolonged, and in how long the recovery process had been thus far -- called for it, then I'd recommend supplementing with low dose androgen in a very careful way,, while continuing SERM use, rather than suffer punishingly low T levels for a prolonged time.

But right now we don't know that you have punishingly-low T levels at all. It might be the case that your recovery is on track. Hopefully so! From what signs you report above, that could very well be. Lab values however could make it an objective and definite fact as to where you are.

 

[KBD]

If your ability of the testes to produce T was restored from that 3 week treatment -- which I don't know - - then I wouldn't recommend resuming HCG.

I was saying that IF the lab values and the time frame involved -- both in how long the cycle was which would make it not unlikely that recovery might be prolonged, and in how long the recovery process had been thus far -- called for it, then I'd recommend supplementing with low dose androgen in a very careful way,, while continuing SERM use, rather than suffer punishingly low T levels for a prolonged time.

But right now we don't know that you have punishingly-low T levels at all. It might be the case that your recovery is on track. Hopefully so! From what signs you report above, that could very well be.

I havent seen an increased size in the testes though, yet libido like i said is higher than before. And im stronger pound per pound.

Also Bill what do you think about GHRP-6?

 

[Bill Roberts]

I havent seen an increased size in the testes though, yet libido like i said is higher than before. And im stronger pound per pound.

Also Bill what do you think about GHRP-6?

It's possible to have reasonable T production, in response to an amount of LH, despite the testes still being smaller than their usual.

I don't have any wide base of cases to judge GHRP-6 on, but I was convinced that in my personal case it worked well, and pharmacologically there is sound evidence. If aiming for a hardcore GH experience I'd still recommend going with GH if able to obtain a good product at an affordable price, but where looking for more moderate use -- e.g. something matching up with perhaps 2 IU/day GH use as a rough guess, maybe a bit more -- GHRP-6 seems an entirely viable way to go.

 

[KBD]

It's possible to have reasonable T production, in response to an amount of LH, despite the testes still being smaller than their usual.

I don't have any wide base of cases to judge GHRP-6 on, but I was convinced that in my personal case it worked well, and pharmacologically there is sound evidence. If aiming for a hardcore GH experience I'd still recommend going with GH if able to obtain a good product at an affordable price, but where looking for more moderate use -- e.g. something matching up with perhaps 2 IU/day GH use as a rough guess -- GHRP-6 seems an entirely viable way to go.

Well i must have test production man because i feel good but i see the muscle loss (or maybe water from dbol and test?)

I def look leaner thats for sure, the IGF-1 LR3 could be keeping the strength on me?

Would the GHRP-6 help maintain LBM during my PCT?

 

[random321]

What's wrong with SARMs like Ostarine?

 

[Reinheart]

You're losing bf and water weight. Don't get all crazy about it. You have carried your lean mass long enough and your body has gotten used to it.

I am telling you bro, you were all water and fat before. Swole, yes but it wasn't all muscle. You're looking bigger than before.

 

[Jeton]

You're losing bf and water weight. Don't get all crazy about it. You have carried your lean mass long enough and your body has gotten used to it.

I am telling you bro, you were all water and fat before. Swole, yes but it wasn't all muscle. You're looking bigger than before.

i been telling him the same thing...but it's good to see all the science Bill Roberts is dropping in here...opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:

 

[Reinheart]

i been telling him the same thing...but it's good to see all the science Bill Roberts is dropping in here...opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:

Yeah! Definitely! Bill Roberts knows his stuff!

 

[bettytaylor23]

Have patience it will take some time.

 

[Deacon]

Cant do it guys, its been almost a month and im seeing my size deplete and i can promise you its not my head, Tape measure shows and so does the scale.

Now im losing motivation to do shit.

I use to get so pumped up working out, i didnt get one fucking pump this week.

Im better off being on TRT, i dont think ill ever recover. IGF was a waste of money its not doing its fucxking job and neither is clomid. Fuck the world.

Im seriously depressed, had the dcotor prescribe me medication for anxiety, cause im fucking about to go crazy.

Yet my libido is higher and my bench is stronger. Makes NO sense.

bro a month is not enough for what you want to happen - in my years of doing this it takes several months to feel everything come back - especially the size and strength gains - instead of worrying daily over this you need to look at the longer picture and give things time -

 

[BBC3]

Just poking in, and I have not read all the educated response. And intentionally as I want to remain clear in my obvious thoughts keeping a light touch on this. So dont mean to step on toes or imply anyone is incorrect.

1. You were on EVERYTHING for about a year I am guessing. That wont fix overnight.

2. I see where one PCT has been done with Clomid. Mix it up now and do one with Nolva. (if ti has been 6 weeks). And finally, perhaps a Nolva/Clomid combo further down the road.

3. Of course you are loosing strength. You are currently built to superhuman hormone levels to which even healthy natural will be hard to maintain. You have to fight to hold what you got from this. Thats the whole point of cycling. As I mentioned in the other thread. You have simply gone too long. So the fight will be diff...

4. I dont think an antidepressant is a good idea at this time. If you are nutty, the most likely culpret is high E / improper T/E ration. You are probably a good canditdate for a little Adex for a few weeks here and there during this long PCT. But not much. You dont want to further piss up the pot..... Antidepressants could send you over the top.

5. Your primary problem, AGAIN, is TIME on...... You cant change that overnight. You high dosing is further complicating, and not to be discounted. You will need 2-3 SERM runs, IMO., and consdering the protocol as a general.

6. Life is a Zero Sum Game in which we have ups and downs. The goal is to maximize the ups, and minimize the impact of the downs, through ration, intelligence, and education (amongst some others). You played a BIG GAME. Now be tough and smart. You may drop the ball, just get as close to the end zone as you can. You are too young to go TRT over this. Trust me, It is no solution. Just poorly educated mitigation as best for now.

NOW TOUGHEN UP AND HOLD WHAT YA GOT FUCKER. GET IN THE GAME AND GET A HOLD OF YOURSELF. FOCUS ON TIMES BEFORE, GOALS, AND WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO.