MESO-Rx Exclusive The Most Effective Growth Hormone Protocol for Fat Loss

[ChestRockwell]

The Most Effective Growth Hormone Protocol for Fat Loss

Long overdue, but please feel free to use this thread to ask any questions you have on the article. Comments and suggestions are also welcomed...

Part two is coming very soon...

 

[Xlgx]

Great write up. Coincidentally been researching this for longevity purposes mostly.

In order to stretch the $$$ what are your thoughts of 2iu eod instead of 2iu ed?

 

[ChestRockwell]

In order to stretch the $$$ what are your thoughts of 2iu eod instead of 2iu ed?

I always urge folks to not let perfect be the enemy of good. The protocol you mention would work just fine as long as you adhere to the principles discussed in the article.

Will you have the same lipolytic potential as someone using rHGH every day? Probably not, but that is far from the same thing as suggesting your idea is without any value...

 

[Wunderpus]

I always urge folks to not let perfect be the enemy of good. The protocol you mention would work just fine as long as you adhere to the principles discussed in the article.

Will you have the same lipolytic potential as someone using rHGH every day? Probably not, but that is far from the same thing as suggesting your idea is without any value...

Chest, do you think it's possible to run TOO much hGH in terms of fat loss? Meaning, is there a point of diminishing returns? I.e. blood glucose levels spiking, etc.....

 

[ChestRockwell]

Chest, do you think it's possible to run TOO much hGH in terms of fat loss? Meaning, is there a point of diminishing returns? I.e. blood glucose levels spiking, etc.....

Yes, I do. There is a limitation to the rate GH stimulates lipolysis and so adding more will not result in higher fat loss rates...the maximal rate hypothesis is discussed in the article within the pharmacokinetics / pharmacodynamics section.

 

[belphegor123]

Great write up, but im confused at how you arrived at the values of 1.2-1.5iu to maximize fat loss, and why this makes your recommendation 2iu in 1-2 daily doses. I havent compared the intravenous vs SC/IM data so im assuming its involving that, but if not:

If we're using a 100kg male, and we found that the maximum rate of lipolysis is 3mcg/kg, then that is 300mcg, or 0.3mg. A milligram of HGH is about 3iu, so our .3mg would be about .9-1iu of gh. Wouldnt it make more sense to have several (3-4) small doses throughout the day in order to continually illicit the maximum rate of lipolysis rather than relying on 1-2 doses that exceed the maximal value?

I know other factors are at play limiting the amount of lipolysis, and being continually fasted would be impossible, but I've heard anecdotally from many in bodybuilding that this produces superior fat loss results. I know Matt Porter has discussed something similar to this in the past, and I've heard it from more sources than just him.

 

[ChestRockwell]

@kevinhy Yessir, you are spot on. The maximal rate of lipolysis is stimulated closer to 1IU, however I use 2IUs in my recommendation simply for convenience factor.

My assumption would be that it provides a bit of room for error and most folks would rather ensure maximal rate is achieved, even if slightly more GH is used than technically required. Furthermore, even 1IU of GH can cause lipolytic rates to exceed baseline for 4-8 hours and so most folks will really only have two realistic times during the day when fasting for this long is feasible.

Long story short, you are absolutely correct, but there is a method behind my recommendation madness...

 

[tenpoundsleft]

The Most Effective Growth Hormone Protocol for Fat Loss

Long overdue, but please feel free to use this thread to ask any questions you have on the article. Comments and suggestions are also welcomed...

Part two is coming very soon...

Nice article - how would your recommendations differ, if at all, regarding females since they have a different hormonal system, are much lighter, and carry higher fat %.

For women, would 0.5 IU taken 2x per day be the ticket, or is there something that changes the equation?

 

[belphegor123]

@kevinhy Yessir, you are spot on. The maximal rate of lipolysis is stimulated closer to 1IU, however I use 2IUs in my recommendation simply for convenience factor.

My assumption would be that it provides a bit of room for error and most folks would rather ensure maximal rate is achieved, even if slightly more GH is used than technically required. Furthermore, even 1IU of GH can cause lipolytic rates to exceed baseline for 4-8 hours and so most folks will really only have two realistic times during the day when fasting for this long is feasible.

Long story short, you are absolutely correct, but there is a method behind my recommendation madness...

Fantastic sir, thanks for the response and I think you make a good point. Also considering a lot of GH has purity issues, shooting for a standard 2iu will likely make up for this in most cases (unless its absolutely not GH in the bottle).

 

[ChestRockwell]

Nice article - how would your recommendations differ, if at all, regarding females since they have a different hormonal system, are much lighter, and carry higher fat %.

For women, would 0.5 IU taken 2x per day be the ticket, or is there something that changes the equation?

Great question, and females really are screwed in a lot of ways when it comes to the GH/IGF axis. However, the good news is that most of the issues are estrogen related and have to do with suppressed IGF-1 conversion.

Because the lipolytic effects of GH are not mediated via IGF-1, my recommendations for females will largely be the same for males...this is not the case for anabolism though, that is a story for another day.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

Great question, and females really are screwed in a lot of ways when it comes to the GH/IGF axis. However, the good news is that most of the issues are estrogen related and have to do with suppressed IGF-1 conversion.

Because the lipolytic effects of GH are not mediated via IGF-1, my recommendations for females will largely be the same for males...this is not the case for anabolism though, that is a story for another day.

But adjusted for weight? So, for a 140lb female, versus a 220lb male, would 0.5 IU taken 2x per day be a good starting point? On a 5 on, 2 off schedule?

 

[ChestRockwell]

But adjusted for weight? So, for a 140lb female, versus a 220lb male, would 0.5 IU taken 2x per day be a good starting point? On a 5 on, 2 off schedule?

There is no reason to take days off, unless it is simply budgetary. A popular misconception is that days off are required due to systemic desensitization, but that is simply not true.

As far as doses go, you are correct. The guidelines discussed are for a 100kg individual so they can be scaled backwards for body weight.

As I mentioned a bit above, I typically just keep things simple by using even numbers. To this end, 1IU dosed twice per day would be great for a female interested solely in lipolysis. Just make sure that the other principles outlined in the article are followed to ensure there is an environment created for maximum lipolytic potential.

 

[musclemoose]

The Most Effective Growth Hormone Protocol for Fat Loss

Long overdue, but please feel free to use this thread to ask any questions you have on the article. Comments and suggestions are also welcomed...

Part two is coming very soon...

Does this protocol change if you are off season and bulking with HGH and AAS?

 

[ChestRockwell]

Does this protocol change if you are off season and bulking with HGH and AAS?

Yes, it does. Fortunately, this is precisely what part two in the article series will be about.

 

[AnTabolic73]

@ChestRockwell , you seem knowledgeable on the subject. Are there any reasons that natural igf levels come back high?

Mine was 252, reference range was 88 to 246 ng/ml. Only slightly higher than the reference range.

 

[Spooby]

Thank you very much for this, I'll be referencing it in the future as I've yet to ever use GH. Great addition to the forum!

 

[ChestRockwell]

Are there any reasons that natural igf levels come back high?

Mine was 252, reference range was 88 to 246 ng/ml. Only slightly higher than the reference range.

IGF-1 levels tend to fluctuate quite a bit and lower as we age. However, if you are under 40 years of age, I do not tend to see 252ng/mL as being excessively high, even if your country's reference ranges state that it is.

IGF-1 levels have a lot to do with sex and age, but also could have to do with ethnicity - this is not discussed nearly as often.

Normal age-dependent values of serum insulin growth factor-I: results from a healthy Italian population. - PubMed - NCBI

Reference ranges for serum insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) in healthy Chinese adults. - PubMed - NCBI

Reference ranges of serum IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 levels in a general adult population: results of the Study of Health in Pomerania (SHIP). - PubMed - NCBI

 

[AnTabolic73]

IGF-1 levels tend to fluctuate quite a bit and lower as we age. However, if you are under 40 years of age, I do not tend to see 252ng/mL as being excessively high, even if your country's reference ranges state that it is.

IGF-1 levels have a lot to do with sex and age, but also could have to do with ethnicity - this is not discussed nearly as often.

Normal age-dependent values of serum insulin growth factor-I: results from a healthy Italian population. - PubMed - NCBI

Reference ranges for serum insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) in healthy Chinese adults. - PubMed - NCBI

Reference ranges of serum IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 levels in a general adult population: results of the Study of Health in Pomerania (SHIP). - PubMed - NCBI

Will 2iu of hgh have the same effect on on someone with high natural igf1 levels vs lower levels

 

[ChestRockwell]

Will 2iu of hgh have the same effect on on someone with high natural igf1 levels vs lower levels

Since this is the "GH and lipolysis" thread, I'll have to take this question to mean "same effect on lipolysis".

Yes, GH-mediated effects on lipolysis are independent of IGF-1 levels. However, please understand that free IGF-1 (unbound) is a negative feedback regulator of GH which is one of the many reasons fasting maximizes fat mobilization rates...

 

[Sampei]

How administration and doses would change during bulking? Me and my wife are just starting offseason.bulk and wanted to optimize use of hgh.

Could we just use it for lypolitic effect to avoid/reduce an increase of bf during bulking following the guideline above?