MESO-Rx Exclusive The Most Effective Growth Hormone Protocol for Fat Loss

[tenpoundsleft]

@Goingstronger I don't dispute your argument. However, when I test a batch (via serum), I also test IGF-1. The main difference is - serum shows the effect of 10IU (new batch) sub-q 3 hours after pin, whereas IGF-1 is to evaluate the result of 4 months continuous use of X IU's (previous batch).

I follow very strict pre-blood protocol (10 hours fasting, blood drawn 8:05 am - first customer when lab open) to avoid external factors. Even the same day of the week (in conjunction with my Test C shot) i.e. trying to approach the whole thing "scientifically"

It all comes down to personal goals. I said many times - my goal is to stay in upper 95% of the reference range of my age group.

On another note, here is my HT progress at 3.5 month mark.

View attachment 81092

HT?

Hair on Top?

 

[DragoT]

HT = Hair Transplant (the procedure in general)

FUE - Follicular Unit Extraction (type of procedure, in this case FUT i.e. each hair is extracted individually from the back (donor area) and transplanted to the bald area.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

HT = Hair Transplant (the procedure in general)

FUE - Follicular Unit Extraction (type of procedure, in this case FUT i.e. each hair is extracted individually from the back (donor area) and transplanted to the bald area.

Oh, rather irrelevant to HGH then, I thought you started to go Chia Pet with HGH.

 

[DragoT]

It is somewhat relevant (i think). I said in another post - normally 100% of transplanted hair (the shaft) will fail within 2 weeks of the procedure. In my case at least 25% of the transplanted hair did not fail at all and just continue grow with normal rate of 1.25cm per month. Could it be due to elevated IGF-1... who knows

Also, worth mention I did loaded TB-500 prior to the procedure and maintained for a month.

Bottom line, who knows...

 

[master.on]

@ChestRockwell
I know GH works better on cycle, and T3 "eats" less muscle while on cycle
but can you please describe a method to stack method T3+GH while off cycle?
Kind of a cutting off-cycle to get ready for the next bulking cycle.

 

[master.on]

It is somewhat relevant (i think). I said in another post - normally 100% of transplanted hair (the shaft) will fail within 2 weeks of the procedure. In my case at least 25% of the transplanted hair did not fail at all and just continue grow with normal rate of 1.25cm per month. Could it be due to elevated IGF-1... who knows

Also, worth mention I did loaded TB-500 prior to the procedure and maintained for a month.

Bottom line, who knows...

100% falls off?
Did you mean that all hair falls off, but the follicles remain and you must wait for hair to regrow?
or that FUE is a scam itself and doesn't work (100% loss)?

 

[DragoT]

100% of the newly transplanted hairs (the shaft only) will fail. The hair bulb remains in the scalp where it takes approx. three months to recover from the "shock" and start growing back.

This is valid for all type of procedures - FUE, FUT and so on.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

It is somewhat relevant (i think). I said in another post - normally 100% of transplanted hair (the shaft) will fail within 2 weeks of the procedure. In my case at least 25% of the transplanted hair did not fail at all and just continue grow with normal rate of 1.25cm per month. Could it be due to elevated IGF-1... who knows

Also, worth mention I did loaded TB-500 prior to the procedure and maintained for a month.

Bottom line, who knows...

I'm guilty of going OT myself - but I meant irrelevant to the fat loss aspect of HGH - although there's a lot of fat-headed lifters too.

 

[DragoT]

Yup, I agree. If there is an interest, we can spin a separate thread and discuss there.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

@ChestRockwell
I know GH works better on cycle, and T3 "eats" less muscle while on cycle
but can you please describe a method to stack method T3+GH while off cycle?
Kind of a cutting off-cycle to get ready for the next bulking cycle.

+1 here

I'm getting a large delivery of Ipamorelin and CJC1295DAC in a couple days - and contemplating adding HGH per @ChestRockwell recommendations.

I'm also considering adding some Levothyroxine sodium (T4) - either Euthyrox or Eltroxin (both 100mcg) - since T4 converts into T3 and from what I know, it's not good for the body (the thyroid function I presume) to get brief spikes of T3, whereas elevated T4 levels are fine. T3 is also extremely short-lived. Some recommend the older non-synthetic Armour Thyroid but I'm skeptical because of quality variations (it's dried pig thyroids) as well as because it's a blend of T3/T4.

I hope the above is on topic since it's about fat loss.

 

[ChestRockwell]

I know GH works better on cycle, and t3 "eats" less muscle while on cycle
but can you please describe a method to stack method T3+GH while off cycle?
Kind of a cutting off-cycle to get ready for the next bulking cycle.

My personal feelings are that when someone is "off cycle" there will be no exogenous thyroid or GH in the system, with the exception being those who have legitimate thyroid treatment plans from their endocrinologists.

With that said, for someone interested in a stack design centered around lipolysis - you can find my thoughts in the article. I also explain why thyroid and GH may be synergistic for this purpose...

 

[ChestRockwell]

I hope the above is on topic since it's about fat loss.

I do cover this in the article, you can read it if you want the detailed reasoning behind my recommendations.

The short answer is that exogenous thyroid can be used successfully in a stack design aiming for lipolysis. Don't use large amounts, and consider a very small amount of T4 in combination with your T3.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

I do cover this in the article, you can read it if you want the detailed reasoning behind my recommendations.

The short answer is that exogenous thyroid can be used successfully in a stack design aiming for lipolysis. Don't use large amounts, and consider a very small amount of T4 in combination with your T3.

Do you mean the opposite? Take T4 and also add a little T3? Here's what I thought was how T4 is used for BF reduction:

Take about 40mcg of long acting T4 per day, which becomes about 10mcg of T3. This is a dose that doesn't interfere with natural thyroid production, yet helps with fat loss.

T4 would be a once a day regimen. Taking T3 would be much futzier with several small doses being better, as it's so short-lived.

Now I'm a bit confused about which is better, before your reply I thought I'd figured it out and that a modest dose of T4 was the ticket for a mild increase in BMR thanks to thyroid output. But not so much that it'd cause recovery issues for the thyroid.

And I did see your mention of Clen, T3, T4 as synergistic compounds - but the piece is very light on details. Or maybe you're referring to whats in the upcoming part 2?

 

[ChestRockwell]

@tenpoundsleft Nope, it sounds unconventional but here is why I recommend what I do. When you run supraphysiological amounts of exogenous thyroid, your endogenous thyroidal axis becomes suppressed. This is due to a very complex series of negative feedback regulators the body has in place.

This means that you'll have little, if any, endogenous T3 or T4 being produced as it is being controlled by what you are exogenously consuming. Now, why would one use T4 when it is the inactive form of the hormone? You actually save the entire step of conversion/deiodination by simply administering T3.

Now, this is where I head into speculative territory. I've come across some literature that suggests there may actually be some minor T4-specific requirements in the body. Yet, when running supraphysiological doses of T3 for extended periods, your body will be all but starved of T4. Working off this speculation a bit further, it might serve as a safety net to provide just a small amount of T4 should this hypothesis ring true.

The T4, as you correctly stated in your post, can be a once per day administration. T3 should be a multi-dose affair, probably AM/PM working well for most. Some believe that it is okay to have fluctuating T3 levels, mimicking endogenous behavior. I currently err on the side of caution however...as we are interested primarily in increasing beta adrenergic pathway density/sensitization, which would seem to be optimized in a consistently elevated T3 environment.

 

[master.on]

+1 here

I'm getting a large delivery of Ipamorelin and CJC1295DAC in a couple days - and contemplating adding HGH per @ChestRockwell recommendations.

I'm also considering adding some Levothyroxine sodium (T4) - either Euthyrox or Eltroxin (both 100mcg) - since T4 converts into T3 and from what I know, it's not good for the body (the thyroid function I presume) to get brief spikes of T3, whereas elevated T4 levels are fine. T3 is also extremely short-lived. Some recommend the older non-synthetic Armour Thyroid but I'm skeptical because of quality variations (it's dried pig thyroids) as well as because it's a blend of T3/T4.

I hope the above is on topic since it's about fat loss.

Do you mean the opposite? Take T4 and also add a little T3? Here's what I thought was how T4 is used for BF reduction:

Take about 40mcg of long acting T4 per day, which becomes about 10mcg of T3. This is a dose that doesn't interfere with natural thyroid production, yet helps with fat loss.

T4 would be a once a day regimen. Taking T3 would be much futzier with several small doses being better, as it's so short-lived.

Now I'm a bit confused about which is better, before your reply I thought I'd figured it out and that a modest dose of T4 was the ticket for a mild increase in BMR thanks to thyroid output. But not so much that it'd cause recovery issues for the thyroid.

And I did see your mention of Clen, T3, T4 as synergistic compounds - but the piece is very light on details. Or maybe you're referring to whats in the upcoming part 2?

Beware of T4
many people on it end up with a slower metabolism
while IN THEORY it should convert to T3, most of it doesn't so
1 you end up with a higher T4:T3 ratio as it suppresses natural T3 made, leaving only exogenous T4.
2 It looks like T4 only causes excess reverseT3 that slows metabolism down
3 newer breakthrough studies seem to suggest that besides regulating thyroid gland production, TSH seems to tell cells everywhere in the body to convert T4 to T3 at a higher rate.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

@ChestRockwell
@master.on

I guess it's OK to keep up the T3/T4 thoughts, since it's about fat loss.

Thanks for the additional info. That would explain with the BB Pro I talked to swore up and down about how good Armour Thyroid was.

Armour has a mix of T3/T4 so maybe that's the reason for his success. His logic was more based on the "natural" aspect of Armour, which I'm skeptical of.

But based on @ChestRockwell thoughts on how there's some T4 need anyway, maybe a blended product like Armour is the ticket. It is preferred over Synthroid by many.

 

[Sampei]

I'm trying to use t3 at small doses for long period of time.

Atm trying 12,5 mcg t3 once a day before bed empty stomach.

My analysis show no suppression of tyroids but increased t3 and lower t4

Tsh 3,0 (i usually have 1,8)
Ft3 3,99 (limit high range is 4,0)
Ft4 1,3 (low limit is 1,0)

 

[Morefyah]

Quick question @ChestRockwell. I’m not sure if I’m phrasing this right but how long will it take for igf levels to return to non super physiological levels after say a two week break? I guess an average level for a adult male age 41-45 is 64 -210 igf, this is just an example. Say that level reached 500 igf after 6 months. How long for it to return back to 200 igf. Lol excuse my ignorance basically I’m going on vacation and will be taking a break after my upcoming blast.
I’m wondering what my levels might drop to over those two weeks.

 

[ChestRockwell]

Quick question @ChestRockwell. I’m not sure if I’m phrasing this right but how long will it take for igf levels to return to non super physiological levels after say a two week break? I guess an average level for a adult male age 41-45 is 64 -210 igf, this is just an example. Say that level reached 500 igf after 6 months. How long for it to return back to 200 igf. Lol excuse my ignorance basically I’m going on vacation and will be taking a break after my upcoming blast.
I’m wondering what my levels might drop to over those two weeks.

Endocrine IGF-1 levels will correlate with exogenous GH administration, as most already know. Once exogenous GH administration ceases, there will be about a 24-36 hour delay and then IGF-1 levels will fall to endogenous levels over the course of roughly 5-10 days, give or take.

 

[Sampei]

Thyroids and hgh natural production are one of the most resilient thing in the human body (hormones related).

No matter what i did i always went back to baseline. Ironically i have impaired my thyroids more with wrong diets or starving my body then with 100mcg t3 daily. Funny