MESO-Rx Exclusive Peter Bond on blood pressure and anabolic steroids

[Millard]

I've been pleased to see so many members lately highlight the importance of monitoring and managing blood pressure particular while using anabolic steroids. Thanks for bringing attention to this important issue in various threads that have been started recently. Your harm reduction efforts are appreciated.

MESO-Rx is publishing two new articles on blood pressure and treatment from @PeterBond. I strongly encourage everyone to read this series.

Here is the first part:

Blood Pressure in Anabolic Steroid Users

Having a high blood pressure, also known as hypertension, is one of the most frequent (contributing) causes of death and cardiovascular complications in

thinksteroids.com

 

[janoshik]

To also keep in mind regarding BP: overtraining, stimulants, lack of sleep, high BMI, which all can be directly related to AAS use.

I've been happy reading people worry about BP more and more too!

 

[GuerillaPete]

I think anybody who run AAS should run some sort of blood pressure meds

 

[PeterBond]

I think anybody who run AAS should run some sort of blood pressure meds

Why?

 

[GuerillaPete]

Because its the smart thing to do

 

[Test_Subject]

Because its the smart thing to do

Not if your BP is normal. And a lot of BP issues can be fixed with diet tweaks and cardio.

Every AAS user should own a BP monitor, though.

 

[PeterBond]

Because its the smart thing to do

What makes you think that?

 

[Silentlemon1011]

Because its the smart thing to do

No need fo take a drug if you dont have to
I use celery seed extract/Cardio and clean eating.
BP stays solid even in cycle now
Used to need telmisartan, but dialing in E2 helps as well

 

[GuerillaPete]

What makes you think that?

Because organ damage is no joke and kidney problem is the biggest problem in bodybuilding.
People think blood pressure mads are bed for them but in reality is a life saver.
Are you implying its a bad thing?

 

[PeterBond]

Because organ damage is no joke and kidney problem is the biggest problem in bodybuilding.
People think blood pressure mads are bed for them but in reality is a life saver.
Are you implying its a bad thing?

Why would all AAS users incur organ damage and kidney problems without the use of BP-lowering medication according to you?

I'm not implying that. BP-lowering medication should be used when hypertensive, regardless of using AAS or not. However, AAS usage per se is no indication for using BP-lowering medication.

 

[Test_Subject]

No need fo take a drug if you dont have to
I use celery seed extract/Cardio and clean eating.
BP stays solid even in cycle now
Used to need telmisartan, but dialing in E2 helps as well

Salt was a big one for me. My BP used to go up to like 145 / 90 on cycle because I’m a fiend for savoury food. I cut way back on sodium while on cycle and it hasn’t gone over 130/80 since.

 

[Jet Labs]

Because organ damage is no joke and kidney problem is the biggest problem in bodybuilding.
People think blood pressure mads are bed for them but in reality is a life saver.
Are you implying its a bad thing?

Your logic is flawed!

I'm mid 40s and when on moderate doses my bp stays around 110/70-117/78 with half decent diet and EOD exercise and according to you I need to be on bp meds when there is zero need for them. Taking drugs for no good reason is stupid!

 

[GuerillaPete]

I dont know about you buddy but when i blast its rarely under 1 gr anabolics so i want my blood pressure as low as possible.
Also different blood pressure meds can be used for different thing like enalapril lowers hematocrit. Telmisartan was shown to protect against LV heart enlargement and a lot of other benefits.
As i said its the smart thing to take it.

 

[Jet Labs]

Salt was a big one for me. My BP used to go up to like 145 / 90 on cycle because I’m a fiend for savoury food. I cut way back on sodium while on cycle and it hasn’t gone over 130/80 since.

I'd still try getting it lower than 130/80 brother, less salt and more cardio sessions with the gf or wife or both lol

 

[GuerillaPete]

Your logic is flawed!

I'm mid 40s and when on moderate doses my bp stays around 110/70-117/78 with half decent diet and EOD exercise and according to you I need to be on bp meds when there is zero need for them. Taking drugs for no good reason is stupid!

Yes i think you should it will only
Benefit you in the long run
People doing sports without AAS have lower blood pressure then is presumed normal i dont want to debate this anymore as its clear you guys have no idea about this stuff so do what ever the fuck you want.

 

[Test_Subject]

I'd still try getting it lower than 130/80 brother, less salt and more cardio sessions with the gf or wife or both lol

For sure. 130/80 is by no means “good”. Off cycle it’s usually around 120/75. Not fantastic but decent.

I’ve had a few people talk up celery seed extract, so I might give that a go when the gyms open up and I run my super bulk.

 

[Jet Labs]

Yes i think you should it will only
Benefit you in the long run
People doing sports without AAS have lower blood pressure then is presumed normal i dont want to debate this anymore as its clear you guys have no idea about this stuff so do what ever the fuck you want.

You're a fucking idiot!

 

[GuerillaPete]

Yeah i bet you are the type of guy who thinks if your blood pressure is normal taking telmisartan it will get to low right?
I guess all the pros and big guys are stupid also and the top coaches.
Yeah sure buddy good luck we have smart people like you

View: https://youtu.be/houN4xC2MKU

For those who like to learn stuff watch this.
or read on other benefits here
Telmisartan as Metabolic Modulator: A New Perspective in... : The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research

 

[PeterBond]

I dont know about you buddy but when i blast its rarely under 1 gr anabolics so i want my blood pressure as low as possible.
Also different blood pressure meds can be used for different thing like enalapril lowers hematocrit. Telmisartan was shown to protect against LV heart enlargement and a lot of other benefits.
As i said its the smart thing to take it.

Why would you want it as low as possible? Are you assuming that a lower blood pressure is always a better blood pressure?

While it is true that ACE inhibitors and ARBs can lead to decreases in hematocrit, and AAS usage can increase hematocrit which might increase the risk of trombosis, this is not an argument to always use BP-lowering medication. For one, not all AAS users experience hematocrit increases to the extent that it significantly increases the risk of trombosis. Second, even if it does, this risk needs to be weighed against the risks of a potential form of treatment. (Mild increases in hematocrit in low-risk populations, especially otherwise healthy nonsmoking young adults, aren't really of concern.) Third, ACE inhibitors and ARBs don't consistently decrease hematocrit. They do so in certain populations in which RAAS activation is an excerbating or causal factor for increased hematocrit. While there are some uncertainties surrounding the mechanism it does so, it converges on an increase in EPO. The AAS-induced increase in hematocrit is most likely due to suppression of hepcidin rather than an increase in EPO. And even in the case of the latter, it's the question whether RAAS activation plays sufficient of a role in this to the extent that ARBs or ACE inhibitors lower hematocrit. There's no evidence to indicate that these drugs lower hematocrit in said population.

While BP-lowering medication can indeed help against certain structural changes of the heart, in particular LV hypertrophy, this is again not to say all AAS users should use BP-lowering medication. First, not all AAS users experience LV hypertrophy. Second, the regression of LV hypertrophy seen with the use of BP-lowering medication is predominatenly due to its BP-lowering effect per se. This can be derived by the fact that all classes of BP-lowering medication lead to regression of LV hypertrophy, and calcium channel blockers showing similar efficacy as ARBs and ACE inhibitors. As such, hypertension is a prerequisite for this to work. And as stated earlier, not all AAS users are hypertensive. Finally, the LV hypertrophy that can be caused by AAS is most likely not, or only to a small extent, the result of increased blood pressure. These changes occur too rapid for that and they coincide with other structural changes that aren't necessarily seen in hypertensive populations. Moreover, the average BP increase due to AAS users is too mild in comparison to the structural changes of the heart that are seen.

As such, I feel it's misguided to say that all AAS users should use some form of BP-lowering medication.

 

[Blange89]

Salt was a big one for me. My BP used to go up to like 145 / 90 on cycle because I’m a fiend for savoury food. I cut way back on sodium while on cycle and it hasn’t gone over 130/80 since.

That's my problem. I take in way too much sodium