1st Cycle Complete - Confused on PCT... Can someone help?

[NT0328]

Hey Guys -

I've been a lurker for the most part but I'm running into a wall - there is soo much information on this board - some contradicts others and I'm having a really hard time separating facts from opinions from bro science.

The more I read the more I'm conflicted... Can someone please help me sort thru my understanding?

Stats:
I'm 34 | 5'6" | 170lbs. 15%-18% BF? Not 100% sure.
Bloods were drawn on 8/6 - I should have results coming in this week.

Just completed 12 week cycle 7/31 last pin of:
Last pin of Test E (450mg/week) and Tren A (700mg/week).

From Members PCT cycle logs - most start PCT 2 weeks after last pin for Test E since that's roughly the time it takes to clear. (Most PCT is Nolva + Clomid, I haven't seen much on adding HCG or anything else)

From this article: https://thinksteroids.com/articles/post-cycle-therapy-pct/ - PCT starts immediately, no waiting needed Clomid is not needed, HCG should be included and Aromasin should be added.

From Dr Scally's protocol:
day 1-20 HCG 10 inj 2000iu EOD
day 1-30 100mg clomid 50 am/50pm
day 1-45 20mg nolva

Before someone flames the shit out of me for doing Tren on my first cycle, I'm well aware of everyone's opinion on this matter, fact is I jumped down the path of Tren prior to doing my research and throughout the entire cycle I did not experience any crazy sides... and kept on going.

I think I've come to a realization that on cycle sides are only 50% of what you need to worry about, the remaining 50% is when you come off it and I am not 100% confident that I understand what the correct protocol is to protect myself...

Really appreciate all the feedback and advise - good or bad...

 

[NT0328]

Bloodwork attached... Am I screwed?
View media item 521

 

[Wiltedrose]

Hey Guys -

I've been a lurker for the most part but I'm running into a wall - there is soo much information on this board - some contradicts others and I'm having a really hard time separating facts from opinions from bro science.

The more I read the more I'm conflicted... Can someone please help me sort thru my understanding?

Stats:
I'm 34 | 5'6" | 170lbs. 15%-18% BF? Not 100% sure.
Bloods were drawn on 8/6 - I should have results coming in this week.

Just completed 12 week cycle 7/31 last pin of:
Last pin of Test E (450mg/week) and Tren A (700mg/week).

From Members PCT cycle logs - most start PCT 2 weeks after last pin for Test E since that's roughly the time it takes to clear. (Most PCT is Nolva + Clomid, I haven't seen much on adding HCG or anything else)

From this article: https://thinksteroids.com/articles/post-cycle-therapy-pct/ - PCT starts immediately, no waiting needed Clomid is not needed, HCG should be included and Aromasin should be added.

From Dr Scally's protocol:
day 1-20 HCG 10 inj 2000iu EOD
day 1-30 100mg clomid 50 am/50pm
day 1-45 20mg nolva

Before someone flames the shit out of me for doing Tren on my first cycle, I'm well aware of everyone's opinion on this matter, fact is I jumped down the path of Tren prior to doing my research and throughout the entire cycle I did not experience any crazy sides... and kept on going.

I think I've come to a realization that on cycle sides are only 50% of what you need to worry about, the remaining 50% is when you come off it and I am not 100% confident that I understand what the correct protocol is to protect myself...

Really appreciate all the feedback and advise - good or bad...

1) PCT Timing:
Given your cycle (450 TE/wk) I would advise you to wait about ~20 days before starting.

2) Drugs:
Clomid and/or nolva should suffice. HCG doesn't hurt.

3) Dosing:
100-50mg of clomid and/or
20-10mg of nolva

4) Comments:
The member logs you see are helpful, but I wouldn't use them as a protocol, anyone can make a log.

The article you linked seems as effective as using unicorn sperm to enlarge ones penis.

Dr. Scally's protocol is made I believe for longer term users and those that use more AAS compounds at higher dosages than you, or those that find it difficult to recover.

I invite you to research the MoA for each of these compounds, it will better assist you in making your decision.




---

 

[grey]

Bloodwork attached... Am I screwed?
View media item 521

Doesn't seem to want to let me view that gallery. Might want to try posting them as inline images.

 

[NT0328]

Thank You - what is MOA?

 

[grey]

Thank You - what is MOA?

Mechanism Of Action.

 

[Wiltedrose]

Thank You - what is MOA?

Mechanism of action, in other words how each of those compounds work towards restoring your natural TT production.

 

[NT0328]

Thanks - Let me know if you can see the BW results now? I'm actually on edge researching on these red flags...

 

[grey]

The image ended up so compressed that it is unreadable for me.

One page per posted image will likely end up with better resolution.

 

[NT0328]

ok tried again

 

[grey]

ok, so a couple of thing, you tested before the long ester test had cleared which muddies things.

Effectively you were doing bloods while still on cycle, ergo the elevated TT, RBC, and E levels (I think you knew that).

That lipid profile ain't great, were you fasted for this panel?

 

[NT0328]

ok, so a couple of thing, you tested before the long ester test had cleared which muddies things.

Effectively you were doing bloods while still on cycle, ergo the elevated TT, RBC, and E levels (I think you knew that).

- Yes - Wanted to get some sort of readings to get some picture of what was going internally.

Can you give me some insight on these levels? Are they normal for being on AAS? Should I draw bloods again on 8/20? (20 days after test E clears?)

That lipid profile ain't great, were you fasted for this panel?

- Yes - I had fasted 14 hours prior to drawing - no food, drinks or water.

 

[grey]

Are they normal for being on AAS?

"Normal" is probably the wrong term but they are commonly elevated for test/AAS users yes. Doesn't look like you were using any AI while on cycle?

I would definitely test again near the end of the month. The test, E, and RBC levels should be dropping.

If your lipids keep coming back that high for fasted tests you should be consulting a doctor in my (utterly non-medical) opinion.

 

[NT0328]

"Normal" is probably the wrong term but they are commonly elevated for test/AAS users yes. Doesn't look like you were using any AI while on cycle?

I would definitely test again near the end of the month. The test, E, and RBC levels should be dropping.

If your lipids keep coming back that high for fasted tests you should be consulting a doctor in my (utterly non-medical) opinion.

Thanks. I'll test again at EOM to see where my levels are at. In the meantime while I wait for the Test to clear our since estrogen is high should I take Arimidex for the time being? 0.5 mg ED?

 

[grey]

In the meantime while I wait for the Test to clear our since estrogen is high should I take arimidex for the time being? 0.5 mg ED?

I would definitely be using AI in your shoes, yes.

 

[NT0328]

Can someone enlighten me... With my e that high - shouldn't i be experiencing Gyno related symptoms? I did not experience any while I was on cycle.

I just started Arimidex today at .5mg.

Should I go donate some blood as well by chance?

Thanks @grey and @Wiltedrose

 

[grey]

houldn't i be experiencing gyno related symptoms?

People's response to E varies. Some guys run "wet" cycles with few effects, others can get gyno at the drop of a hat.

Donating blood certainly won't hurt.

 

[Wiltedrose]

Can someone enlighten me... With my e that high - shouldn't i be experiencing Gyno related symptoms? I did not experience any while I was on cycle.

I just started Arimidex today at .5mg.

Should I go donate some blood as well by chance?

Thanks @grey and @Wiltedrose

Having a high e level could be a result of you not using anti estrogen during the cycle.

 

[NT0328]

I was using arimidex at .5 but was not consistent - this goes back to reading 411 and then reading conflicting 411 so I sided with not taking AI since I did not experience any sides...

Initially it was .5 mg EOD this coincided with tren a injections EOD. Then I read that AI was not needed unless you experience symptoms and some estrogen is not completely bad for your cycle which is why i then stopped...

 

[NT0328]

I forgot to ask.. I do have HCG on had... Should I start that now? and if so 2000 iu EOD until 8/20 when I introduce the other 2 or do I wait for everything all at once?

Thanks