24k Pharma US Domestic Source

[24kpharma]

Okay, I haven't really been following too closely it seems.

@24kpharma My concern with your testing protocol is this:

You can send in your raws, and have them tested, but what does that actually mean for us? Not a ton.... You see, it would be much better for us, the users, to send in samples to Simec. I am confident in my experience with tren, enough to say this product doesn't seem right. I can labmax it, but we all know how that goes. Do you know the minimum sample size for Simec? I'm willing to do what I can, but in our eyes a source sending in samples in some senses is like masturbating in front of a mirror. Trust in your results will be strengthened if we have the same results with random Simec send ins. I don't want to allude to the fact you would be dishonest, as I'm not intending to insult your character.

Are there any other users who have an unopened sample of this batch, if it's needed, that would be willing to send it in? I have about 1ML, not sure if that is enough, and the source can always say it's been tampered with if the results are less-than ideal.... The only true way to know what we have is for US to send it in...

Thanks.

We are told that minimum sample size is 5mL liquid or 5g powder.

We have always been open to any and all testing, this is not something I oppose at all. I understand that source testing is bias, but it does show that we are able to get access to quality raws. While I agree that random user testing is more beneficial to the community, to completely disregard and/or criticize source testing in this regard, I see that as putting us in a lose-lose situation. If we don't take initiative ourselves to send samples in, then users would criticize us for not being productive and getting our products tested instead of waiting for users to send in product. If we do take the initiative, then we have criticism that the test mean little. It is difficult to operate in an environment where every decision ends in a lose-lose outcome. Please do not misunderstand, I am more than open to feedback and I'm flexible to what the community wants us to go. However, there must be some fairness and acknowledgement, our sample results can be obtained by email and you can verify the results with the actual lab with the testing code on the top right of the page.

As mentioned, we are working on having a protocol set up for users sending in samples for testing. I will be transparent in saying that we are having a difficult time with communication with the lab as they 6 hours ahead of Eastern time. We are currently discussing pricing and customer security. We've discussed customer sample testing with the lab before, but we are now finalizing a protocol in which we can have customers safely and anonymously send samples without being put in jeopardy of trouble with exporting AAS compounds. Because we are also located in the US, where AAS are illegal, we have to be careful about how our payments are done. Everything is more difficult and complex with domestic sources as anabolic steroids are illegal in the United States. These type of international dealings take time. I am forever grateful that this lab is willing to work with us, so we are at the mercy of their policies and timeline. Rest assured we are working on customer sample testing now, we are not trying to stall as these things can take time.

Hopefully this helps clarify.

 

[CAswole]

Just got my test e and tren e. All 24k stuff and will begin my blast this week. 800mg test 600mg tren e. At that dose I'll be able to tell what's up and i just got my base line bloods. 2 of 5 tests were crashed. The tren is a nice gold color, not the green/black color posted a few pages back. Well see. I'll post bloods in about 7-8 weeks

 

[24kpharma]

Got 5 unopened vials of tren a. Not are batch number will check when I get home. Have no problem giving one up for testing

We will replace the sample you send for testing. Please email me when you get a chance and we'll place you on the list of customers looking to have their samples tested if you wish to do so. Thanks.

 

[OdieM]

So basically you are comparing a labmax test vs analytical testing and saying your labmax result is the "fire". Sorry but there is no logic in that whatsoever and that sounds like a line from mercury or Ebola.

No my log with videos and pics of me running it was what made it fire but while we're on the subject can you find me just one other tren labmax that tested as well as the Fina?

 

[Docd187123]

No my log with videos and pics of me running it was what made it fire but while we're on the subject can you find me just one other tren labmax that tested as well as the Fina?

Well you linked to a 2pg labmax thread of your fina, not a log....

Labmax is a presumptive test meaning it's enough to presume a compound might be what it says. It's presumptive bc even when used by law enforcement it must still be sent in for analytical testing to VERIFY content, concentration, potency, etc. Then even when so called expert mercury claimed a labmax result wasn't NPP, analytical testing showed it to be just that.

The questions you should really be asking is why you're placing a presumptive test's results in higher regard than analytical testing and why you think the same exact compound can cause different results?

 

[OdieM]

Well you linked to a 2pg labmax thread of your fina, not a log....

Labmax is a presumptive test meaning it's enough to presume a compound might be what it says. It's presumptive bc even when used by law enforcement it must still be sent in for analytical testing to VERIFY content, concentration, potency, etc. Then even when so called expert mercury claimed a labmax result wasn't NPP, analytical testing showed it to be just that.

The question you should be asking is why you're placing a presumptive test's results in higher regard than analytical testing?

Did I miss something here? When was 24k tested? He said his tren was as good as Fina when members are coming out and saying they think it's garbage. It's no secret you hate Mercury and labmax. You make sure to remind us anytime Mercury post something. I know what labmax is used for. I also know that no one here has seen a better reaction from lab max then what I got from testing Fina. Yes labmax doesn't tell me that it's dosed correctly but it showed me that I was in for one hell of a ride. Shit looked nuclear and EVERYONE that commented below the results said the same thing. Honestly I would like to drop the whole Fina thing. The deal is that members are coming out and wanting refunds, replacements and answers and I would like to see how this is handled. I know 24 is sending in stuff to be tested but we should all agree that we will wipe our ass with the results he gets.

 

[24kpharma]

No my log with videos and pics of me running it was what made it fire but while we're on the subject can you find me just one other tren labmax that tested as well as the Fina?

Well you linked to a 2pg labmax thread of your fina, not a log....

Labmax is a presumptive test meaning it's enough to presume a compound might be what it says. It's presumptive bc even when used by law enforcement it must still be sent in for analytical testing to VERIFY content, concentration, potency, etc. Then even when so called expert mercury claimed a labmax result wasn't NPP, analytical testing showed it to be just that.

The questions you should really be asking is why you're placing a presumptive test's results in higher regard than analytical testing and why you think the same exact compound can cause different results?

I apologize for intruding on this discussion. With the introduction of analytical testing and the advancements made by AL, I do not believe that Labmax can be used as a gauge of potency or concentration. I do believe that Labmax can be useful in confirming results, but it should not be used for rejecting results due to false negatives (the NPP labmax debate is a key example). The glow produced by labmax results can be influenced by many factors. In fact, several months back I posted a series of labmaxes comparing Test P raws in different oils that showed this.

Take a look at an example of a labmax of Tren A (first picture) and Tren E (second picture): Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

Both show a significant glow, but I do not think they are indicative at all of their potency. That is why I am having samples sent in.

Again, let me reiterate how important I think it is that we as a community move away from subjective "testing" and adopt/accept objective testing. There are not many debates I get involved with in this community, as again I am just a guest. But I do think this is a crucial turning point in the AAS market and community. We have to decide whether or not objective, data driven testing is more valued over subjective colorimetric testing and feelings-based reports. I personally believe that there is too much individual variability and other unknown factors to allow objective testing to fall to subjective report. Hopefully the community feels the same way.

 

[Wunderpus]

We are told that minimum sample size is 5mL liquid or 5g powder.

We have always been open to any and all testing, this is not something I oppose at all. I understand that source testing is bias, but it does show that we are able to get access to quality raws. While I agree that random user testing is more beneficial to the community, to completely disregard and/or criticize source testing in this regard, I see that as putting us in a lose-lose situation. If we don't take initiative ourselves to send samples in, then users would criticize us for not being productive and getting our products tested instead of waiting for users to send in product. If we do take the initiative, then we have criticism that the test mean little. It is difficult to operate in an environment where every decision ends in a lose-lose outcome. Please do not misunderstand, I am more than open to feedback and I'm flexible to what the community wants us to go. However, there must be some fairness and acknowledgement, our sample results can be obtained by email and you can verify the results with the actual lab with the testing code on the top right of the page.

As mentioned, we are working on having a protocol set up for users sending in samples for testing. I will be transparent in saying that we are having a difficult time with communication with the lab as they 6 hours ahead of Eastern time. We are currently discussing pricing and customer security. We've discussed customer sample testing with the lab before, but we are now finalizing a protocol in which we can have customers safely and anonymously send samples without being put in jeopardy of trouble with exporting AAS compounds. Because we are also located in the US, where AAS are illegal, we have to be careful about how our payments are done. Everything is more difficult and complex with domestic sources as anabolic steroids are illegal in the United States. These type of international dealings take time. I am forever grateful that this lab is willing to work with us, so we are at the mercy of their policies and timeline. Rest assured we are working on customer sample testing now, we are not trying to stall as these things can take time.

Hopefully this helps clarify.

How do we, the users/customers, verify the tested raws are in the products you sell?

Also, how do we verify the tests you show us, are for your raws?

Thanks again for your transparency throughout.

I understand your viewpoint as lose-lose, and you're not entirely wrong.... It is a very tough environment. However, YOU can feel confident in the products you sell if you test them, that should mean something to you. Your openness and willingness to work with us in the uncomfortable situation means something to me.

 

[OdieM]

How do we, the users/customers, verify the tested raws are in the products you sell?

Also, how do we verify the tests you show us, are for your raws?

Thanks again for your transparency throughout.

I understand your viewpoint as lose-lose, and you're not entirely wrong.... It is a very tough environment. However, YOU can feel confident in the products you sell if you test them, that should mean something to you. Your openness and willingness to work with us in the uncomfortable situation means something to me.

Also let's say his Raws do test well. How do you know that he dosed your stuff correctly. Who cares if what he's got is good. Members should be worried about finished products

 

[24kpharma]

Did I miss something here? When was 24k tested? He said his tren was as good as Fina when members are coming out and saying they think it's garbage. It's no secret you hate Mercury and labmax. You make sure to remind us anytime Mercury post something. I know what labmax is used for. I also know that no one here has seen a better reaction from lab max then what I got from testing Fina. Yes labmax doesn't tell me that it's dosed correctly but it showed me that I was in for one hell of a ride. Shit looked nuclear and EVERYONE that commented below the results said the same thing. Honestly I would like to drop the whole Fina thing. The deal is that members are coming out and wanting refunds, replacements and answers and I would like to see how this is handled. I know 24 is sending in stuff to be tested but we should all agree that we will wipe our ass with the results he gets.

I would ask that you please read the post I made earlier as well as the other user who responded. I am not making a comparison between my tren and "fina"/vet tren. I did not state my tren was as good as fina. My response was questioning how accurately UGL tren tested by AL can be not as good as vet tren if they are both the same tren acetate molecule.

I am respectfully asking that you take a honest read at my responses. If I take the time out to write out a detailed response, I would ask for the time to read it. I am asking that we keep this discussion respectful and to accurately debate each other with what is actually said.

We are handling replacements and refunds, even before we get results. I understand your hesitancy and resistance to UGL's. All I am asking is to give me the same respect I have given you and all the members here on Meso for over a year. I want 24k and the Meso community to progress as a whole, but that is very difficult when source responses and actions are not taken seriously, disrespected, or viewed as inherently dishonest.

 

[24kpharma]

How do we, the users/customers, verify the tested raws are in the products you sell?

Also, how do we verify the tests you show us, are for your raws?

Thanks again for your transparency throughout.

I understand your viewpoint as lose-lose, and you're not entirely wrong.... It is a very tough environment. However, YOU can feel confident in the products you sell if you test them, that should mean something to you. Your openness and willingness to work with us in the uncomfortable situation means something to me.

To truly answer your questions to your satisfaction, the answer would be, customers have to send in their own samples for random testing.

To verify that the results we have are indeed our results, I can provide a few members with the first name and last initial of the "customer name" and receipt date, these are usually blacked out for our safety. You can then verify this information with the lab, I will need to give them an advanced notice that they can release this information to a specified email address. This is because we made it very clear with the lab that our identity and safety is of utmost importance. If we were international and based in a country where AAS was legal, I would be much more comfortable with giving information. But because we are domestic, I must keep some information private or censored for overall safety.

There is little usefulness in how much confidence I have as a source because end of the day we are catering to the customer. If we have all the lab testing necessary and the customer still feels unsatisfied for one of many reasons, what else can we do but to make it right for them? This is a unregulated market that burned and jaded many people. I understand we work in a tough environment, but I hope that my actions have somewhat slowly improved our reputation among the community.

 

[bickel29]

Okay, pardon me for sounding like Bill Clinton by asking "what is "is" "?

But, is tren, fina tren, ugl powder tren, tren A, and tren E, all "tren" much the same as ALL forms of testosterone are simply testosterone at the end of the day, only separated by the attached ester?

Testosterone is testosterone - 100mg of test P has the same amount of testosterone in it as 100mg of test C, it's just released at a different rate.

So, is the Trenbolone molecule the same as the testosterone molecule in that they are the same molecule, and the difference occurs when the ester is attached?

Is all tren, molecularly speaking, equal? Does 100mg of tren a from ugl powder, theoretically speaking, contain the same amount of usable tren as 100mg of finaplex tren?

Is finaplex tren a higher quality tren, ON A MG BY MG BASIS?

 

[GrandChamp]

To truly answer your questions to your satisfaction, the answer would be, customers have to send in their own samples for random testing.

To verify that the results we have are indeed our results, I can provide a few members with the first name and last initial of the "customer name" and receipt date, these are usually blacked out for our safety. You can then verify this information with the lab, I will need to give them an advanced notice that they can release this information to a specified email address. This is because we made it very clear with the lab that our identity and safety is of utmost importance. If we were international and based in a country where AAS was legal, I would be much more comfortable with giving information. But because we are domestic, I must keep some information private or censored for overall safety.

There is little usefulness in how much confidence I have as a source because end of the day we are catering to the customer. If we have all the lab testing necessary and the customer still feels unsatisfied for one of many reasons, what else can we do but to make it right for them? This is a unregulated market that burned and jaded many people. I understand we work in a tough environment, but I hope that my actions have somewhat slowly improved our reputation among the community.

I feel compelled to share my thoughts here, although they are nothing more than my thoughts. After being in this game for awhile now I can honestly say this source conducts himself in a far more professional manner than anything else i have been used to. Many will argue this means nothing as the finished product is all that matters. While I agree the finished product is the endgame, it is important to note that this guy seems to be doing his very best to remain transparent and to rectify any and all issues that have arisen. To be perfectly honest, I have ordered very expensive items from large corporations such as Nike only to be dissatisfied with the product and never had those issues rectified. Thus far this particular source has always been willing to answer my questions and address any concerns i have had. In my book, and my book alone, this means something. Having said that, I think it is crucially important that the rest of us continue to share questions, comments, and concerns over these products as an open, honest, and transparent discussion is the best way to lead to an acceptable solution for everyone while also keeping sources accountable.

One thing i personally take issue with is trying to read through this thread and reading many thought out, logical, and respectful comments on all sides of different debates but then only to run across the "pole smokers" and "your products suck" posts. If the source himself is trying to maintain a professional manner of approaching us I feel like the least we can do is keep the conversation professional and respectful on our end as well. This is just common sense and will lead to better results for everyone. We are all adults here, and after reading some of these posts over the last 24 hours I am really starting to question the way some people handle themselves and the motives behind it. We all have questions, comments, concerns. Voice them. But I think we are all capable of doing so in an adult manner.

Just my two cents. I'm fully prepared to get ripped on this one, but I finally couldn't take it anymore.

 

[Wunderpus]

Okay, pardon me for sounding like Bill Clinton by asking "what is "is" "?

But, is tren, fina tren, ugl powder tren, tren A, and tren E, all "tren" much the same as ALL forms of testosterone are simply testosterone at the end of the day, only separated by the attached ester?

Testosterone is testosterone - 100mg of test P has the same amount of testosterone in it as 100mg of test C, it's just released at a different rate.

So, is the Trenbolone molecule the same as the testosterone molecule in that they are the same molecule, and the difference occurs when the ester is attached?

Is all tren, molecularly speaking, equal? Does 100mg of tren a from ugl powder, theoretically speaking, contain the same amount of usable tren as 100mg of finaplex tren?

Is finaplex tren a higher quality tren, ON A MG BY MG BASIS?

Tren Ace, UGL or fina or whatever is the same mg/ml of active drug. This is due to it all being tren ace.

Prop and cyp, are not due to the Ester weight difference. Yes, there is testosterone, just less per mg accordingly.

Tren E and A are different amounts of hormone per mg due to the higher amount of Ester weight in enanthate, over acetate.

 

[Gramps]

You will ALWAYS have some that are pleased to see you test, and some that are always pissed about it. Pick the one you want as a customer and move on as you'll NEVER shut both sides up. The "other side" will still follow along. Either way, you will always have some claiming bunk wanting a refund so neither choice will thin this crowd down. But proving you tested just might restrain a few from their keyboards.

 

[Docd187123]

Did I miss something here? When was 24k tested? He said his tren was as good as Fina when members are coming out and saying they think it's garbage.

I don't know that it was tested but you opened the door to questioning with your comment that compared one of your UGL tren runs that was tested by AL and was found to be dosed properly with your fina run.

It's no secret you hate Mercury and labmax. You make sure to remind us anytime Mercury post something. I know what labmax is used for.

You do not know what labmax is used for otherwise youd know your next statement, VVVV, was irrelevant and has no scientific backing whatsoever as even labmax themselves state concentration, potency/purity, etc cannot be determined by the reaction.

And yes, my loathing for mercury is evident. I make no secret of it but my point remains that if even the "expert" can't interpret labmax results properly, what's that say about everyone else?

I also know that no one here has seen a better reaction from lab max then what I got from testing Fina. Yes labmax doesn't tell me that it's dosed correctly but it showed me that I was in for one hell of a ride.Shit looked nuclear and EVERYONE that commented below the results said the same thing.

Honestly I would like to drop the whole Fina thing. The deal is that members are coming out and wanting refunds, replacements and answers and I would like to see how this is handled. I know 24 is sending in stuff to be tested but we should all agree that we will wipe our ass with the results he gets.

So you want us to wipe our asses with the results of 24K's testing but you want us to accept your labmax test? Again, there's no logic in that.

 

[OdieM]

I don't know that it was tested but you opened the door to questioning with your comment that compared one of your UGL tren runs that was tested by AL and was found to be dosed properly with your fina run.



You do not know what labmax is used for otherwise youd know your next statement, VVVV, was irrelevant and has no scientific backing whatsoever as even labmax themselves state concentration, potency/purity, etc cannot be determined by the reaction.

And yes, my loathing for mercury is evident. I make no secret of it but my point remains that if even the "expert" can't interpret labmax results properly, what's that say about everyone else?






So you want us to wipe our asses with the results of 24K's testing but you want us to accept your labmax test? Again, there's no logic in that.

Look it's a known fact that you love to argue. I believe that's why you got banned from another board. I'm not trying to argue at all. I just simply said that I got better results off Fina and the shit was fire. If you'll go back you'll actually see where I told members to just get some Fina cause you know it's dosed right. When they test for tren that's all they test for. Maybe it's all the other China crap that's in it is why it sucks most of the time. Also maybe that's why Fina puts off a nuclear glow on labmax and most UGLs tren barley does. Couldn't tell you cause I got tired of playing the lotto with these sources and crossing my fingers. All I simply know is Fina is 100% dosed correctly. You as a fellow Brewer should know that.

 

[GigaloRob]

I feel compelled to share my thoughts here, although they are nothing more than my thoughts. After being in this game for awhile now I can honestly say this source conducts himself in a far more professional manner than anything else i have been used to. Many will argue this means nothing as the finished product is all that matters. While I agree the finished product is the endgame, it is important to note that this guy seems to be doing his very best to remain transparent and to rectify any and all issues that have arisen. To be perfectly honest, I have ordered very expensive items from large corporations such as Nike only to be dissatisfied with the product and never had those issues rectified. Thus far this particular source has always been willing to answer my questions and address any concerns i have had. In my book, and my book alone, this means something. Having said that, I think it is crucially important that the rest of us continue to share questions, comments, and concerns over these products as an open, honest, and transparent discussion is the best way to lead to an acceptable solution for everyone while also keeping sources accountable.

One thing i personally take issue with is trying to read through this thread and reading many thought out, logical, and respectful comments on all sides of different debates but then only to run across the "pole smokers" and "your products suck" posts. If the source himself is trying to maintain a professional manner of approaching us I feel like the least we can do is keep the conversation professional and respectful on our end as well. This is just common sense and will lead to better results for everyone. We are all adults here, and after reading some of these posts over the last 24 hours I am really starting to question the way some people handle themselves and the motives behind it. We all have questions, comments, concerns. Voice them. But I think we are all capable of doing so in an adult manner.

Just my two cents. I'm fully prepared to get ripped on this one, but I finally couldn't take it anymore.

I see you.

 

[GrandChamp]

I see you.

God I feel old, I'm trying to decipher how this is intended.

 

[Wunderpus]

I see you.

Sorry, I've never read one of your posts.... I just stare at your avi