60 yr old male first starting hgh

[Dr JIM]

None really. Or should I say, no more reason than I have to believe the product forwarded will be yours instead of some pharm grade GH you have instilled into one of your generic vials.

Stretch if you really want to KNOW send them, if not so be it, your choice.

 

[Dr JIM]

Why you most certainly should care about the IU/mg concentration because that's what this discussion is all about.

I suspect your concentration is less than 1IU/MG. extrapolating that forward a 13IU vial of generic has roughly 3-4 IU of PG equivalent GH.

 

[Dr JIM]

Understand something Stretch when HPLC performs a GH test it will determine it's weight in milligrams and THAT is extrapolated into IU,

It must be done this way because NO MACHINE is capable of determining IU, since it's a biological measurement.

 

[Stretch]

So you're saying there is no test which reveals the IU/MG concentration?

Fuck. I shoulda went to college.

 

[Dr JIM]

I can't provide you with an IU concentration that is NOT based on the molecular weight, in milligrams, of the GH contained within that vial, fella, no one can!

That process was completed years ago using the changes in serum glucose and IGF relative to the quantity of GH required for that particular alteration, the result was the rHGH IU equivalent.

Thereafter the weight required to make that change was established BUT varied considerably until WHO standardization transpired.

I don't want you to believe you will receive something which is not possible, an IU yet non-weight based analysis of the GH submitted.

 

[Dr JIM]

Got me, fella?

 

[Stretch]

I can't provide you with an IU concentration that is NOT based on the molecular weight, in milligrams, of the GH contained within that vial, fella, no one can!

That process was completed years ago using the changes in serum glucose and IGF relative to the quantity of GH required for that particular alteration, the result was the rHGH IU equivalent.

Thereafter the weight required to make that change was established BUT varied considerably until WHO standardization transpired.

I don't want you to believe you will receive something which is not possible, an IU yet non-weight based analysis of the GH submitted.

Thanks for bringing this down to my level.

So how then is HPLC different than a damn scale? If all it is going to do is tell me the weight of the powder in the vial? Does HPLC distinguish between GH and adulterants?

 

[Dr JIM]

Now your thinking!!!!!

 

[Dr JIM]

Simply put HPLC determines how fast a substance moves under the influences of opposing forces. Those forces can range from solvent viscosity, an electrical field, an ionic field, a pressurized field etc. How fast and how much of a particular substance "moves" determines it weight.

However even before HPLC testing can begin the substances must be "eluted" or separated into "like" substances often using mass spec.

Ya just can throw the shit into the machine and out spits some results, loll! (Some believe it's that simple) I know of chemists that have spent hours defining an "unknown".

It takes time, BUT the more you know about what your testing the easier and less expensive and complicated it becomes.

So what invariably happens is the generic lab obtains a pure product (let's assume).

Say 100IU OK. Well GH is not at all like other inorganic/organic substances it denatures QUICKLY especially when exposed to ADULTERANTS.

So these guys not knowing any better, yet wanting to maintain the same amount in WEIGHT step on this very intolerant GH with things ranging from condensed milk to nutria sweet!

Thereafter since they placed 10IU in TEN vials are of the opinion nothing changes, BS!

Shit GH denatures when exposed to AIR, OK.

Now when a substance is said to have become denatured, the substance looses WEIGHT and this even small change in weight is picked up by the HPLC testing!

This is very important because as little as one to two oxidation-reduction reactions to a GH molecule can remarkably alter it's efficacy.

This same process is involved in many AAS where the movement of a single hydrogen atom can change the effectiveness of the AAS considerably. A good example is the difference between Masteron and Proviron....., the PLACEMENT of one hydrogen atom EVEN THOUGH their WEIGHT remains the SAME!

The point adulterants screw up the efficacy of GH remarkably by changing it's molecular structure or weight BOTH of these changes are noted when HPLC testing is performed and those denatured GH molecules ARE NOT "counted" as GH

GOT ME!

 

[Dr JIM]

On by the way I'm of the OPINION these unknown adulterants are the etiology for the side effects many describe with generic GH, some of which are only rarely reported with PG.

 

[Dr JIM]

"I'll be back"

 

[cobra500]

Jim you're fuckin smart, seriously. I had to read that a few times to understand, you should be a damn chemist.

 

[biggerben69]

Jim you're fuckin smart, seriously. I had to read that a few times to understand, you should be a damn chemist.

I hope there's no sarcasm here, cuz the Doc is sharp as fuck.

 

[cobra500]

I'm serious, that's why I said it, no sarcasm at all on this one.

 

[biggerben69]

I'm serious, that's why I said it, no sarcasm at all on this one.

I'm glad. I don't like looking like I belong on the short bus. I get lost many times with the stuff the Doc posts.
I can usually sum it up at the end, but the Doc can dissect shit and break it down or he can weave a web and the truth or lesson is in there somewhere and I find myself becoming frustrated. He's good people though and a one of a kind ally.

 

[Demondosage]

Dr. Jim, I am with your viewpoint on quality vs. cost, but from someone else who has been there and done it, I find it hard to believe that my hands would be numb and pulsing like crazy on a 2iu-4iu/ day dose of these "fake kits" or"severely underdosed" I've ran GH that I could not take more than 4-5iu/day without fear of falling asleep behind the wheel of my car or having to take a day or two off every couple weeks because the shit felt so strong I couldnt take it anymore!! And yes, it was from these kits that ran $100-$300 a kit, I'd like to know what was in them that caused these effects, I'd really be curious

 

[mands]

It's scary to think those kungfu lovers have found some mystery chemical that makes hands numb, improves skin quality, causes water retention, and increases GH on serum tests.

I wish that girl wouldn't have disappeared on us. We would have answers by now. I PAID for answers by now. Have you heard from her?

Hey I never said that there aren't actually Chinese GH that doesn't contain GH. I'm just saying I've seen too many bullshit vials with absolutely nothing in them. I've also seen Chinese GH that raises GH serum levels. So, it goes back to what you are saying about trusting your source. I believe this goes for all supplements.

Would like to say on behalf of Jim and Stretch. In my opinion BOTH are stand up guys and I personally believe what comes out of their pie holes are genuine and true.

mands

 

[biggerben69]

.

Would like to say on behalf of Jim and Stretch. In my opinion BOTH are stand up guys and I personally believe what comes out of their pie holes are genuine and true.

mands

Or at least they genuinely believe what's coming out of their mouths is true! [)]

 

[Stretch]

Hey I never said that there aren't actually Chinese GH that doesn't contain GH. I'm just saying I've seen too many bullshit vials with absolutely nothing in them. I've also seen Chinese GH that raises GH serum levels. So, it goes back to what you are saying about trusting your source. I believe this goes for all supplements.

Would like to say on behalf of Jim and Stretch. In my opinion BOTH are stand up guys and I personally believe what comes out of their pie holes are genuine and true.

mands

Thanks bro. When I read through the post that you just quoted it does soundlike a challenge or something. But it was a genuine inquiry as to whether you have any theories on what it is about the generics that would make hands numb, lethargic...etc..

 

[mands]

Thanks bro. When I read through the post that you just quoted it does soundlike a challenge or something. But it was a genuine inquiry as to whether you have any theories on what it is about the generics that would make hands numb, lethargic...etc..

No worried Stretch. Here is what has been mentioned, IGF-1 to fool your blood tests, AI, antidiuretics, vanadly sulfate, GHB salts and cortizone to mimic the side effects of good quality HGH. And of course other Peptides mixed in depending on the manufacture. I really don't know for certain just things that I have heard.

mands