60 yr old male first starting hgh

[Dr JIM]

There are well over TEN legitimate manufactures of rHGH worldwide. Qualifiers are established by the WHO although different countries are allowed to trademarks similar technology such as E-coli secretion, Yeast collation, Plasma insertion, etc.

This stuff is EXPENSIVE to produce with the average start up costs alone for a GH lab well over a million bucks. That includes the equipment, the personal whom know how to use it, Trademarked "starter substrates" such as E-coli.

Should any one of you doubters ever toured one of these facilities (as I have done twice at Lllly) you would know exactly what I'm referring to.

But the notion someone can go on line or to the local Golds Gym and purchase fully concentrated GH at half to one third the market value price is simply not the case.

I'm not referring to pro BB (you know those front and center pics of hyper-vascular beasts on Flex and Muscular Development, etc) since no doubt they can and do acquire Pharm grade GH from there sponsors.

Nope I'm speaking of the average amateur or weekend Joe BB whom gets screwed buying this diluted junk on the net or from other hit and miss sources.

Nonetheless, some will ask will look at the differences in muscularity in those at the current amateur level doc, cant you see the change from yesteryear.

Sure I can BUT what many refuse to acknowledge or understand is the training, equipment, available supplements (especially readily absorbed AA), AAS dosage and ancillary meds have all improved remarkably.

The difference is NOT GH in these mates.
Why is it none of these suppliers are willing to have their product tested and the results POSTED on Meso as I have offered previously.

The only caveat these "manufactures" must provide some form of "proof" based on legitimate laboratory analysis their GH is GTG (before I'm willing to fork over as much as $500 to prove otherwise. Which is the cost for reagents, solvents, subsolvents, colloidal mixtures etc needed for amino acid collation using a HPLC from start to finish including M, Spec)

Nope kid yourself not, these fellas are NOT stupid. Shit why would they have an unbiased reviewer post results of their product on ANY forum when a considerable portion of the BB populous already believes IT'S GTG?

Truth be told very few of the distributors have even tested the GH they are selling and really don't care to know!

JIM

 

[Demondosage]

There are well over TEN legitimate manufactures of rHGH worldwide. Qualifiers are established by the WHO although different countries are allowed to trademarks similar technology such as E-coli secretion, Yeast collation, Plasma insertion, etc.

This stuff is EXPENSIVE to produce with the average start up costs alone for a GH lab well over a million bucks. That includes the equipment, the personal whom know how to use it, Trademarked "starter substrates" such as E-coli.

Should any one of you doubters ever toured one of these facilities (as I have done twice at Lllly) you would know exactly what I'm referring to.

But the notion someone can go on line or to the local Golds Gym and purchase fully concentrated GH at half to one third the market value price is simply not the case.

I'm not referring to pro BB (you know those front and center pics of hyper-vascular beasts on Flex and Muscular Development, etc) since no doubt they can and do acquire Pharm grade GH from there sponsors.

Nope I'm speaking of the average amateur or weekend Joe BB whom gets screwed buying this diluted junk on the net or from other hit and miss sources.

Nonetheless, some will ask will look at the differences in muscularity in those at the current amateur level doc, cant you see the change from yesteryear.

Sure I can BUT what many refuse to acknowledge or understand is the training, equipment, available supplements (especially readily absorbed AA), AAS dosage and ancillary meds have all improved remarkably.

The difference is NOT GH in these mates.
Why is it none of these suppliers are willing to have their product tested and the results POSTED on Meso as I have offered previously.

The only caveat these "manufactures" must provide some form of "proof" based on legitimate laboratory analysis their GH is GTG (before I'm willing to fork over as much as $500 to prove otherwise. Which is the cost for reagents, solvents, subsolvents, colloidal mixtures etc needed for amino acid collation using a HPLC from start to finish including M, Spec)

Nope kid yourself not, these fellas are NOT stupid. Shit why would they have an unbiased reviewer post results of their product on ANY forum when a considerable portion of the BB populous already believes IT'S GTG?

Truth be told very few of the distributors have even tested the GH they are selling and really don't care to know!

JIM

So what is in the stuff that makes your hands numb as hell? Whats in it that makes me so damn tired when I use it? What sort of fake ingredient does that?

 

[cobra500]

Truth be told very few of the distributors have even tested the GH they are selling and really don't care to know!**

If this is true, that's f'd up! Especially when you can get a serum blood test and at least have an idea if it's real for$70.

 

[Dr JIM]

I've not said some of the GH being sold on the BM contains no HGH whatsoever, but the value is proportional to it's cost.

So when I hear of guys needing 10IU to receive the same benefit my patients receive with 1-2 IU of Humatrope, something just ain't right mate.

In fact I experienced the same phenomenon your describing!

Yep even as a doc I made the same error many other BB have made and went for the "cheaper stuff", in spite of the fact I had access to several brands of Pharm Grade GH. .

Remember those "Kigs" many were boasting about?

Shit mate I was able to purchase "100IU for only $150 bucks", what a deal, NOT!

I didn't experience any CTS sxs until well over "10 IU" was used.

However Humatrope reproduced CTS at less than ONE IU!

Consequently for myself I now know GH is not a viable anabolic since the anabolic effects of GH typically require doses of at least 2-3 IU daily, depending upon LBM and the side effects were debilitating in my case.

My point is relatively straightforward mate only the minority of "BB" will benefit from using GH in the contemporary market place because it remains far to expensive, especially when compared to the well established and relatively inexpensive anabolism achieved from the use of AAS.

So really guys if you want to give GH a go buy Pharm grade, at least initially, to provide a yourself with a personal baseline and ensure you KNOW what the real deal is all about. Otherwise chances are you will be wasting your money in one way or another, IMO &IME!

Jimmy

 

[biggerben69]

Truth be told very few of the distributors have even tested the GH they are selling and really don't care to know!**

If this is true, that's f'd up! Especially when you can get a serum blood test and at least have an idea if it's real for$70.

You test 'em all. The first 10 could be strong and then have a run of a 1000 that are shit. The biggest scams happen with generic gh.
I wonder if an accountant to get close the amount of money people have been scammed out of over on professionalmuscle surrounding fake gh? Forensic accounting. Those IRS guys can get damn close to the penny.(If you've ever been audited you know what I mean.)
10's of thousands? No.. Hundreds of thousands. I bet ya. And it continues over and over again.
I'll say it once more. There are only 2 guys that I would ever get generic gh from. Them or guys that are definitely distributing for them. They are as close to a sure bet as you're gonna get.
No doubt there are hyges out there that are smoking. But for how long? Remember those fucking kigs? Gods gift....and then shit.

 

[Dr JIM]

C500
You can prove to yourself these distributors don't know the quality of the product they are selling by asking them a few very simple questions.

First, hey fella since your GH is Pharm Grade which company makes your product.

Great so Shanismu (sp) in China is the manufacturer?
Yep, well distributors SHALL be granted access to a producers in house rHGH assays, as defined by WHO criteria which was instituted in 2010 to limit counterfeiting and to reassure "high volume venfors" (AKA insurance companies).

So hey fella how about I review a copy .... em. duh, stutter, stammer, next the excuses will roll endlessly out of their lying mouths, I promise. Been there done that SEVERAL times!

Although it rarely gets to the next step, I need to KEEP a copy for my records .... what are you kidding me, that's proprietary stuff dude and it remains with me under lock and key ..... BS, BS, BS.

However both of the companies whom did provide tis info proved GTG, BUT that's less than 10%.

But give it a go guys and see what happens, lol.

Moreover if u acquire some documentation of this nature and would like my input I'm more than happy to provide my two cents if ASKED.

Jimmy

 

[Dr JIM]

All that being said DD overall I agree with your underlying premise, and that is, the quality of GH has continued to improve over the past five to ten years and similarly the price has also declined.

Unfortunately we're are another 10-15 years before the average Joe BB can afford legit GH, much like the situation with "designer" AAS several years ago.

I believe BB has a healthy (and tentative), perspective of this issue.

Jimmy

 

[Dr JIM]

Just one example of what happens when "government" becomes more involved in health care.

Actually, in fairness, I can't think of a more worthy cause;
Big Ben Becoming BIGGER, lol!

Jimmy

 

[Stretch]

Perhaps the high quantities of AAS and other readily available supplements the MAJORITY are using has something to do with the physical changes seem at the amateur and weekend warrior levels.

I'm am NOT referring to those BB at the PRO levels, since there have unfettered access to variety of meds through sponsors.

But if you believe your.average Joe pursuing rHGH on the net is acquiring a fully concentrated product at half the marketplace cost of genuine Pharm Grade, that not the case, IME.

Lastly why is it none of these "suppliers" are willing to provide proof of product legitimacy and thereafter forward same product my way for formal HPLC testing?

Perhaps they know I will most certainly POST the results, and those results are anything but good IME

Fact is these sources aren't stupid since they know as long as folks believe their GH is GTG, why bother "proving it".

The "proof is in the pudding" IMO!

With respect Jim. Your beliefs about generic GH have been so well documented, that I would bet a source would be remiss to send you product for testing because it could be difficult for you to admit you've been wrong about the GH scene. This is not my belief now. But months ago, when I was working for SF that would have been my opinion. You were quite hateful at that time, as was I.

Would you mind posting a link to the results from the GH which was tested previously? The multiple generics and pharm grade?

 

[biggerben69]

With respect Jim. Your beliefs about generic GH have been so well documented, that I would bet a source would be remiss to send you product for testing because it could be difficult for you to admit you've been wrong about the GH scene. This is not my belief now. But months ago, when I was working for SF that would have been my opinion. You were quite hateful at that time, as was I.

Would you mind posting a link to the results from the GH which was tested previously? The multiple generics and pharm grade?

Who gives a flying shit about links. Stretch, you have to know that generic gh is linked to the biggest scams ever perpetuated on the masses. The fucked up thing is that there isn't one or two large scams to focus on. It's out of control.
The Provider(maybe I'm fucked for naming him? I don't give a fuck.) He wants all kind of personal info before he sells to you.
I propose that sources that want to get into the generic gh game need to give their personal info to a board of trusted members so when the scam is exposed the source needs to refund cash or he gets his shit put out for motherfuckers to know who stole their cash.
Trust, there will be only a few suppliers of gh. Fuck the thieves and kill their children. I'm tired of motherfuckers pickpocketing guys like it's nothing but a thing.

 

[Stretch]

Who gives a flying shit about links. Stretch, you have to know that generic gh is linked to the biggest scams ever perpetuated on the masses. The fucked up thing is that there isn't one or two large scams to focus on. It's out of control.
The Provider(maybe I'm fucked for naming him? I don't give a fuck.) He wants all kind of personal info before he sells to you.
I propose that sources that want to get into the generic gh game need to give their personal info to a board of trusted members so when the scam is exposed the source needs to refund cash or he gets his shit put out for motherfuckers to know who stole their cash.
Trust, there will be only a few suppliers of gh. Fuck the thieves and kill their children. I'm tired of motherfuckers pickpocketing guys like it's nothing but a thing.

He says he's tested 15 fucking kits. But I've never seen the results. He's proud of getting kigs for $150 of $180 or whatever it was. But it wasn't from Provider, and it wasn't from Nostradamus either...so all it proves is that he bought fake GH. And we would have known it was fake, if he just would have told us WHERE he was buying it. Don't need an HPLC, you need friends to send you to a reputable supplier.

I just think its ridiculous for him to act like quality generic GH doesn't exist.

Even if he has tested 20 kits. 20 kits ain't shit. Certainly not enough to prove a universal negative.

I agree with all the scam stuff. That's why no one should be ordering GH from a source that they don't expect a refund from if its shown the GH is bad. Some guys are willing to take that risk to see the price lower from $800 down to $300.

 

[biggerben69]

He says he's tested 15 fucking kits. But I've never seen the results. He's proud of getting kigs for $150 of $180 or whatever it was. But it wasn't from Provider, and it wasn't from Nostradamus either...so all it proves is that he bought fake GH. And we would have known it was fake, if he just would have told us WHERE he was buying it. Don't need an HPLC, you need friends to send you to a reputable supplier.

I just think its ridiculous for him to act like quality generic GH doesn't exist.

Even if he has tested 20 kits. 20 kits ain't shit. Certainly not enough to prove a universal negative.

I agree with all the scam stuff. That's why no one should be ordering GH from a source that they don't expect a refund from if its shown the GH is bad. Some guys are willing to take that risk to see the price lower from $800 down to $300.

I agree that there is quality gh out there....I don't know nostradomas...I don't think you're baiting me to put the name out there but the initials are HK. He's still solid as fuck.
IMO rips are the safest way to go.
I understand about putting the cash out and how it's easier and seems like the thing to do for folks to put out $225 for 100iu's of blue tops or any other kind of generic gh. There are so many that will swear that they should've saved up and put out $800 and got serostim.
If you're burnt once you're down $200 plus. Guys chase that lost money with the same amount. I honestly believe that 4ius of hyges or rips(legit, of course) are equal to 2iu's of serostim. I could be wrong, of course.
It's the same old shit....you've gotta have money to make money or get the fucking real shit. Fixed incomes or living check to check makes one a slave . I've been there. Fuck that.

 

[mands]

So what is in the stuff that makes your hands numb as hell? Whats in it that makes me so damn tired when I use it? What sort of fake ingredient does that?

That's the question at hand Demon! What are they putting into those vials? I don't get numb hands or get tired on Pham GH.

mands

 

[cvictorg]

On spot BB that's the lower end of what legit rHGH will cost.

It can't be made or produced in some backyard garage and the manufacturing cost (lab facilities, personal, genetically engineered substrate bacteria or fungi etc,) for even LOW END rHGH will run between 1-2 million bucks!

Consequently I'd be very hesitant to believe or purchase ANY GH for less than $5/IU, or at least understand, it will NOT be the fully concentrated product of 3IU/MG agreed to internationally by the WHO.

For those whom choose not to believe what I'm referring to fine, but I'll test your product and prove my point and POST the data on Meso FREE (after the manufacturer submits their own reliable lab data that supports their "proof" of legitimacy)

jimmy

Would a IGF-1 blood test before and after prove whether or not the hgh was worth the cost??

If your levels went up 2x/3x would that prove that the hgh was real enough?

 

[Stretch]

That's the question at hand Demon! What are they putting into those vials? I don't get numb hands or get tired on Pham GH.

mands

In fairness though arent you somewhat alone on this? As Jim said he faced; "debilitating" sides on 2-3iu/day.

 

[Dr JIM]

Like MANDS, not all experience GH sides I and others, have described.

I experienced CTS at less than ONE IU of Pharm Grade.

However the adverse effects do correlate with the dosage used based on Pharm Grade trails.

You argue your point like you tying to sell something Stretch?

Do you really believe I'm "wrong" and contend all this generic crap is and bas been GTG?

(There are thousands of BB whom most certainly differ with that sentiment)

You tell me, what must someone pay (dollars per IU) to acquire quality GH / IU on average.

A "link" to my computer ain't gonna happen besides you have made it clear what ever data I possess it "ain't shit".

Well then why should I try, people believe what they are compelled to believe for what ever reason.

Jim

 

[mands]

In fairness though arent you somewhat alone on this? As Jim said he faced; "debilitating" sides on 2-3iu/day.

Not really alone on this! Everyone is different like Jim states. I failed to mention I have tried a few generic brands before and realized I was wasting my money even though it was fairly cheap for a 100 iu kit of generic. I actually did have sides from IP yellow tops, Kigtropins and generic blue tops. I had numb hands running 2-4 iu's a day. So go figure. That's what really baffles me.

mands

 

[Stretch]

Like MANDS, not all experience GH sides I and others, have described.

I experienced CTS at less than ONE IU of Pharm Grade.

However the adverse effects do correlate with the dosage used based on Pharm Grade trails.

You argue your point like you tying to sell something Stretch?

Do you really believe I'm "wrong" and contend all this generic crap is and bas been GTG?

(There are thousands of BB whom most certainly differ with that sentiment)

You tell me, what must someone pay (dollars per IU) to acquire quality GH / IU on average.

A "link" to my computer ain't gonna happen besides you have made it clear what ever data I possess it "ain't shit".

Well then why should I try, people believe what they are compelled to believe for what ever reason.

Jim

You argue like you're trying to sell something as well Jim. Others have taken notice and asked you this question and you've denied it so I won't bring it up again. Everyone knows I sell generic GH, not the RIPS or HYGES that I promote because I think that would be deceitful. But again, I won't censor my honest opinion on the matter to avoid appearing disingenuous. I've argued this topic long before I had an interest in selling GH. And my opinion hasn't changed.

Are you going to post results? Or just keep alluding to all the tests you ran in the past?


I just want to know the truth. Clearly I need to spend the money on Pharm grade and log the results. That will give me the clarity I seek. There are plenty of guys who have ran both and believe as I do. Generics may be unreliable, and a risk, but I'll take $2/iu over $8-$10/iu all day long.

Now let's see those 20 or so test results please.

 

[Stretch]

Not really alone on this! Everyone is different like Jim states. I failed to mention I have tried a few generic brands before and realized I was wasting my money even though it was fairly cheap for a 100 iu kit of generic. I actually did have sides from IP yellow tops, Kigtropins and generic blue tops. I had numb hands running 2-4 iu's a day. So go figure. That's what really baffles me.

mands

It's scary to think those kungfu lovers have found some mystery chemical that makes hands numb, improves skin quality, causes water retention, and increases GH on serum tests.

I wish that girl wouldn't have disappeared on us. We would have answers by now. I PAID for answers by now. Have you heard from her?

 

[cobra500]

Now let's see those 20 or so test results please.

Jim, post them up. You do talk a lot about having tested so many so let's see them.