665 reasons to not order from UncleZ

[Mike Arnold]

Look, I can understand why you would be pissed that you lost gear during the entire Z fiasco last year, but there are a few things in your post that aren't accurate and/or mis-leading. While I cannot reveal all the details (contrary to popular belief, it is not always safe or wise to reveal every last detail to the public), I can hopefully bring a bit of reassurance to you and others regarding the legitimacy of the Z re-send.

See bolded below, for my responses.

1. 2 men arrested in Warsaw Poland in June 2012. Millard himslef translated and posted article about it. despite UncleZ is
claiming it was not him, the fact is that these 2 men works for UncleZ drug ring.
Z was not arrested...others were.

2. according to the news and attached pics these 2 men got busted sending out UncleZ packages.

3. UncleZ vanished just after these 2 dudes got arrested by DEA.
Yes, he was smart and lived under the radar for a while.

4. what's not mentioned in Millard translation is that local cops and DEA had been watching UncleZ packages for more then 12 months. more then 1500 packages got seized and it leaded authorities
to UncleZ crew.
There is a bit more ot this here. First of all, many, many packages were seized after being shipped out from that "region", many of which were not Z's. All steroid dustributers were having their packahes seized left and right during that time. This was not specific to Z...nor was it a set-up to catch Z. It was a problem for UGL's in general.

5. UncleZ comes back in January 2013 and announces he is back to the game. he explains that his sudden dissaperance was caused by a competitor who'd ratted on him. he changes his mind after detailed questions were asked and his
new story is that Shaggy scammed him and left with million $$$
The story neve changed...he was just more thorough with his response when people pressed him for additional information. Long before Z announced this re-send campaign, I was speaking with him and I can tell you without any doubt whatsoever that his story has been the same from day one.

What realy matters here is that Z is attempting to re-pay every customer that got screwed during the raid. Believe me when I tell you that VERY few men would have done this...VERY few. It would have been 100X easier to just re-open his business and tell everyone what happend without r-sending anything. After all, it was not his fault. Since there is undebiable proof that Z's warehouse got busted, we cannot place the blame on him for lost orders after the raid. So if the blame is going to be placed on anyone, we can place it on L.E...period. Knowing this, Z still took it upon himself to re-send all lost orders...at a VERY large expense to himself. remember, the person who got screwed more than anyone during the raid was Z himself!

So, instead of trying to spin this froma negative point of view, why not look a it for what it really is...a man doing hos best to mak everything right, even when it was not his fauklt...and attempting to re-enter the business wth honor by doing something very few other UGL's would do. Think about it, what else could Z do differently under these circumstances to make things better? If people want to start rumors and say "It is not Z...it is LE", then there is nothing he can do about that, is there? No...there isn't. People can say whatever they want, but just because somebody says something, it doesn't make it true.

6. Repo his friend and shell on many boards confirms it.

7. UncleZ develops resend campaing (he did found 'replica steroid' before) which leads many folks to believe that their Uncle is back and ordering from him is safe.

8. in meantime folks start asking questions and getting worried because UncleZ does not deliver any answers.
Ok...now you are really moving away from he facts and it is getting more obvious that resentment & anger are strong driving forces behind your post. Otherwise, you would not have said this.

The truth is that Z has provided plenty of answers, including an in depth explanation as to what happened last year during the bust, as well as his current situation and what he is doing to make things right. Quite frankly, not everything is your business. You know, Z does have a right to keep some information confidental, especially when it is in his best interest to do so.. Like I said previously, only a fool divulges sensitive information unecessarily.

9. instead of UncleZ addressing issues his shells are becoming active and spread stories how good UncleZ is.
This was addressed above. As to his friends supportng him, I would expect them to do so, as they know what happened and they also know Z is doing his best to help everyone who lost gear.

10. UncleZ is getting annoyed and sends threads to Meso member biggerben69
I am not aware of this occurence, so I can't comment....although it would have been nice to see you post a link to these communications, as you didnt explain a single things as to why Z was annoyed or what these supposed "threats" were. Basically, all you said was...Z was annoyed and sent threats. The bias in this statement is clear, as it was designed soley to make Z look bad without supplying a single piece of information about the situation.

11. so far Millard ignores it and had not banned UncleZ yet.
OK.

12. since the resend campaing begun only 3 guys confirmed receiving his gear. its confirmed by pics they posted.
3 guys, huh? LOL. How many boards are you on? Where did you get this number...the number of guys on this oards who actually posted pics? What about all the people who haven't posted pics?

13. member siemiak reported extremly bad packaging, busted vials and crushed tabs. UncleZ blamed postal workers again.
Really, bro? Come on, man. Are you really going to post that a single guy has damaged goods? Really? Does one guy really warrant you posting this, as if it represents Z's usual deliveries? Again, it is clear what your intention is in this post and it is not to get to the truth or to state facts, but to slander.

the TRUTH is that Z packages his stuff very well. I have seen numerous UGL's packagaing...and Z is right up there with the best of them. He does all the same shit everyone else does...everything is kept tight, secure, and proplery concealed. I have seen literally dozens of packages from Z...and spoken to dozens more....if not 100's. I have NEVER and I repeat, NEVER heard anyone say they had a broken vial. Sometimes tabs can get crushed just by the post office tossing boxes around. I have recieved "bottles" of pills from other UGL's (reputable companies), with nearly every pill turned into powder. This is not because of the packaging, but due to the pills not being compressed hard enough during manufacturing. Z'spills are soft enough to break for tailored dosing, but not so soft that they will turn to dust within the package. Z does all he can reasonably do to prevent damage from occuring during transit.

14. everyone knows that source has to take care of packaging and security of customer. UncleZ blames postal service.
No...Uncle Z is realistic. Again, you are doing nothing but complaing about nothing. Z packages his stuff well and his customers know it.

15. UncleZ posted many times that another Polish source Oscaro was busted because of competitor ratted him out.
Another bullshit statment. Now you are trying to make Z look bad for no other reason than he thought the same thing everyone else did? This is what was being said in the beginning...and it wasn't only Z that was told this. Numerous people heavily involved in the industry also felt the same. Hell, I guess you could throw me into the same boat...because that is what I thought too.

16. everyone knows that Oscaro runs his business without any trouble.

17. Oscaro when asked about UncleZ said STAY AWAY IT'S NOT UNCLEZ HE IS A FUCKING COP.
Well, it looks like in this situation, Oscaro dosn't know what he is talking about. You see how mksinformation goes both ways? Look, Z has a lot of friends who know him well...and after all of us having many conversations with him over the last few years, we know who Z is. I can tell you without any hesitation that the person I was speaking with last year and last night is the same person...NOT L.E.

Question: Are going going to slander Oscaro when you find out he made a mistake about Z? After all, you slandered Z when he (and everyone else) thought Oscaro was busted, so I am sssuming you will be fair and put up a future post slandering Oscaro when you find out he was wrong, right?

18. one can contact Oscaro or any Polish source and get the same info.
Really? How much gear you wanna bet on that one? See, the problem here is you are only guessing. In my case and many others, we are not. However, because you are not working with or closley connected to Z, you are not going to know all the same stuff we do.

.....

 

[Mike Arnold]

I have seen no such proof that oscaro said anything??? Where is that info? I learned of this resend campAign after a google search of z whereabouts.. Since then I have researched and read for hrs in many forums trying to decide for myself if indeed it was legit or LE... I have yet to see any proof of the LE theory.. That is not to say it isn't possible , anything is in this game. Regardless after my research into this issue , I decided to email him my order info in regards to the resend on order I never received in June 2012. I guess I will go d out soon enough if it is legit ...

It is legit. I communicate with him almost daily. It is NOT LE and the re-send campaigb is real. Even if someone wasn't positive regardig his identity, all they would need to do at this poiint is look at the people who have verbally offered their support to Z. Some of these guys are heavy hitters in the UGL industry ...and some of them have known Z for years. Between all of us, we would have known long ago if it was LE.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Also, I do realize after reading all these posts how it can be irritating or seen in the way that some guys new here are giving props to z in every post , could look like they were sent here to talk him up.. But also could be fact that they were taken care of by z.. I don't know which is true and I guess I won't . I will though find out for myself regarding my matter . Scammedbyz..? U seem
To have a personal vendetta against z bc I have seen u repost the same shit in every post! Just as the ones saying z has taken care of them with no proof to us.. Your allegations are just that ... Allegations , no proof.. Hearsay...

Thank you.

 

[Mike Arnold]

So once again, for the 400th time, answer this-- If it was only a re-mailer, then why did the whole operation go dark?

When the sciroxx guys in RI got caught, it didn't shut down sciroxx.....

You see, when one of the main hubs get busted...and all the gear and cash investment wrapped up in it is lost...and LE gets involved....you're fucked. It's really that simple. If you lose enough revenue and product, you go down.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Hey Kamala......the shills say the whole "Z got busted story" is so ridiculous. It's certainly no more ridiculous than "Shaggy stole 2 million" from him.
At least there are articles by news organizations that some big polish source got busted. Z was named. Yeah, Z's competition just lucked out. They've been waiting for a story like this to break just so they could say it was Z. Luck indeed.
But...some guy comes back after a year, posts NOTHING like the original Z and tells a story of being ripped of by the mysterious "Shaggy' and that's why he disappeared.
Which story would anyone in their right mind lend more credibility too?

Actually, he posts exactly the same. This is one of the ways a member could know it is him...or at least feel more secure about it. Regardless, I can confirm to you 100% it is not LE, but Z. I would NEVER have aligned myself with him if I was not very confident. Unfortunately, I cannot share everything with you, which proves to us it is Z. All I can say is that I (and many others) know it is him.

 

[steroidsfax]

You are not posting ANYTHING new.

Enough of this back and forth Z garbage, this shit is retarded.

Every four or five days, a new Z supporter shows up, regurgitating the same answers previously given.

And for the some reason, Z's detractors then feel compelled to re-involve themselves, and restate their points, which they have previously made.

Enough already.

 

[Mike Arnold]

You are not posting ANYTHING new.

Enough of this back and forth Z garbage, this shit is retarded.

Every four or five days, a new Z supporter shows up, regurgitating the same answers previously given.

And for the some reason, Z's detractors then feel compelled to re-involve themselves, and restate their points, which they have previously made.

Enough already.

My apologies, I was not aware any of this had already been posted. I was directed to this thread today and just responded to the first few posts I saw. Since there is nothing more to be said, I will cease responding.

 

[steroidsfax]

My apologies, I was not aware any of this had already been posted. I was directed to this thread today and just responded to the first few posts I saw. Since there is nothing more to be said, I will cease responding.

I didn't mean to yell at you man. You're good. I don't personally believe you or 100% of the others are being paid for their opinions.

I think Z is genuine about this resend campaign, because he knows it is his only shot at making money again. But there are those who are here, who will never believe that, and will never allow a Z supporter to have the last word, because of his previous transgressions.

How long have you been associated with Z?

 

[Millard]

You are not posting ANYTHING new.

Enough of this back and forth Z garbage, this shit is retarded.

Every four or five days, a new Z supporter shows up, regurgitating the same answers previously given.

And for the some reason, Z's detractors then feel compelled to re-involve themselves, and restate their points, which they have previously made.

Enough already.

My apologies, I was not aware any of this had already been posted. I was directed to this thread today and just responded to the first few posts I saw. Since there is nothing more to be said, I will cease responding.

Part of the problem is the fragmentation of the discussion. If critics post same thing in 5 different threads, supporters will respond in kind in 5 different threads and vice versa. This isn't the best way to be heard or the best way to engage in a discussion.

 

[skofan]

i dont know anything about z, or know anyone who's done business with them. but i strongly agree with steroidsfax, its getting pretty old by now. theres about a gazillion threads about z by now, and they all say exactly the same thing, "z is trustworthy!" "no he's not!". it would be lovely if everyone would just give it some time, and see if this crap is on the level or not. or at least gather all the arguing in the same thread.

 

[biggerben69]

You say it's better not to "reveal every little detail to the public"? Then you go on to say when one arm of an operation gets shut down it doesn't squash everything?
It wasn't every little detail? He said "Shaggy" beat him for 2 million or 1.2 million? That would be a complete fabrication if what you're saying is now the truth? You say LE was involved.
You're a rep. You "aligned" yourself with Z and you know everything about him and his operation.
Again....who cares about which one of you is full of shit? Again, a paid Z plant is refusing to talk about Z's past of lying and scamming. The working replica bullshit when he was charging high prices saying they were HG/pharm grade? His disappearing at times, etc,
You're attempt to distract from the facts that Z is an unscrupulous source is ridiculous. International intrigue....if only we knew the "true story". It's a campaign of bullshit.
"Heavy Hitters" working and supporting Z? You mean board owners who are taking his money to sponsor...the shit boards he's on will take money from anyone as long as they pay. Then they'll protect him by deleting posts and banning members for speaking the truth.
Go away and find a much less informed flock of sheep. We don't buy it...besides, I've learned never to trust a person with 2 first names. Lol...Shill.

 

[Kamala]

You are not posting ANYTHING new.

Enough of this back and forth Z garbage, this shit is retarded.

Every four or five days, a new Z supporter shows up, regurgitating the same answers previously given.

And for the some reason, Z's detractors then feel compelled to re-involve themselves, and restate their points, which they have previously made.

Enough already.

That's because there is a very obvious organized effort happening here, and its been misleading so far. If they'd actually address the questions that have already been brought forward, maybe it would go away..... But so far instead of doing that, they just spring up with a different dummy account giving a different answer..... Every schill has had a different answer.

If you don't like seeing it, then don't come to a Z thread..... Its that simple. If people knowledgeable about Z's past behavior do not speak up, this board will have threads devoted to how great Z is on a daily basis. This is how these guys work, and how its always worked.
If we don't speak up, the Z talk will continue but nothing bad will ever be said.

 

[Kamala]

Part of the problem is the fragmentation of the discussion. If critics post same thing in 5 different threads, supporters will respond in kind in 5 different threads and vice versa. This isn't the best way to be heard or the best way to engage in a discussion.

With all due respect that's because when they are confronted with a question they do not have an answer for they move to a different account in a different thread.

I think that keeping this discussion to 1 thread, and having a good back & forth open discussion where no relevant question goes unanswered would put this to rest.

 

[steroidsfax]

So, perhaps ADMIN could close all the Z threads, except one? Thereby forcing those whom I believe to be happy noobs...(shills to you Kamala) to post in one thread?

I agree that the correct action would have been for me to ignore them. I understand the effort you are making to protect the "community". Selfishly, I just want it to stop. I'm just fed up with incessant rehashing of the same arguments.

 

[Kamala]

So, perhaps ADMIN could close all the Z threads, except one? Thereby forcing those whom I believe to be happy noobs...(shills to you Kamala) to post in one thread?

I agree that the correct action would have been for me to ignore them. I understand the effort you are making to protect the "community". Selfishly, I just want it to stop. I'm just fed up with incessant rehashing of the same arguments.

Yep, 1 thread devoted to Z is plenty IMHO.

Cmon dude, you rep yourself....... You can look at the "happy noobs" profiles just like I can....... You REALLY think these guys are just giving their honest opinion?
If I thought there was even a 1% chance of that I'd shut up immediately, but that's not how these guys work.

 

[skofan]

If I thought there was even a 1% chance of that I'd shut up immediately, but that's not how these guys work.

actually, dont. this thread is going from just another z thread, to an actual conversation about how to best deal with all the other z threads.

 

[Millard]

With all due respect that's because when they are confronted with a question they do not have an answer for they move to a different account in a different thread.

I think that keeping this discussion to 1 thread, and having a good back & forth open discussion where no relevant question goes unanswered would put this to rest.

So, perhaps ADMIN could close all the Z threads, except one? Thereby forcing those whom I believe to be happy noobs...(shills to you Kamala) to post in one thread?

Yep, 1 thread devoted to Z is plenty IMHO.

It doesn't really matter who is to blame - if one party starts posting duplicate posts, the other side will feel compelled not to let the post go unanswered. Who can fault each side for responding? There's just a better more respectful way to do this that spares the redundancy.

The last thing I want to do is restrict discussion. I don't want to "force" anyone to discuss any topic in a specific way. But I think the discussion would be much more productive if there wasn't so much fragmentation with essentially, if not entirely, identical posts popping up in multiple threads. All I'm asking for is a little more respect for forum etiquette.

 

[raysugar1234]

Why did you say 665 reasons?

 

[steroidsfax]

Yep, 1 thread devoted to Z is plenty IMHO.

Cmon dude, you rep yourself....... You can look at the "happy noobs" profiles just like I can....... You REALLY think these guys are just giving their honest opinion?
If I thought there was even a 1% chance of that I'd shut up immediately, but that's not how these guys work.

I really believe it though.

Before I was a REP I would have been right there with you guys flaming all these one post noobs. But after seeing it from the other side, my opinion has changed.

I mean repo, is almost surely being compensated. But most of the others I believe are being truthful. Maybe you're right and I'm naive.

I am green experience-wise when compared to you, or BB. My time as a REP has taught me how easy it is to criticize a source, and how hard a source can be to defend.

Since the source has a financial interest in saying that they are honest, any and all evidence which supports this claim of honesty is quickly dismissed as bullshit designed to further the obvious agenda, of financial gain. Those on the negative side of the argument, are simply viewed as nice guys taking time out of their day to help the community. It makes a difficult situation for the source, to prove legitimacy.

As I have said many times before IMO the strongest arguments against ANYONE are the things we can prove. Not supposition.

So, in Z's case, what we can prove is:
1)Sold fakes....later called them replicas
2)Selective Scammer reputation among unbiased Vets
3)significant legal issues within the last few months.

Apart from this, we are just guessing at other perceived offenses which can never be proven. Which IMO weakens our argument, and opens the door for off-topic discussion, which helps no one...

..ie...is this new Z a FED??
..ie...are all these noobs paid for their input??

Do you Kamala believe that 100% of these first post guys are shills?
Do you believe the resend campaign isnt happening?

 

[Kamala]

I really believe it though.

Before I was a REP I would have been right there with you guys flaming all these one post noobs. But after seeing it from the other side, my opinion has changed.

I mean repo, is almost surely being compensated. But most of the others I believe are being truthful. Maybe you're right and I'm naive.

I am green experience-wise when compared to you, or BB. My time as a REP has taught me how easy it is to criticize a source, and how hard a source can be to defend.

Since the source has a financial interest in saying that they are honest, any and all evidence which supports this claim of honesty is quickly dismissed as bullshit designed to further the obvious agenda, of financial gain. Those on the negative side of the argument, are simply viewed as nice guys taking time out of their day to help the community. It makes a difficult situation for the source, to prove legitimacy.

As I have said many times before IMO the strongest arguments against ANYONE are the things we can prove. Not supposition.

So, in Z's case, what we can prove is:
1)Sold fakes....later called them replicas
2)Selective Scammer reputation among unbiased Vets
3)significant legal issues within the last few months.

Apart from this, we are just guessing at other perceived offenses which can never be proven. Which IMO weakens our argument, and opens the door for off-topic discussion, which helps no one...

..ie...is this new Z a FED??
..ie...are all these noobs paid for their input??

Do you Kamala believe that 100% of these first post guys are shills?
Do you believe the resend campaign isnt happening?

I'll try to keep this as to the point as possible-

Are all the noobs paid for their input?
Impossible to say for sure, but Repo is almost certainly, legendkiller is almost certainly, and Mike Arnold said in his post that he is affiliated. IMHO it is safe to say that if 90% or more of someones posts are devoted to defending a source they have a vested interest. I would also venture to say that prior to his "issues" Z had large number of people promoting his business, even on youtube. His machine probably is even bigger than WP's.

Do I believe the resend campaign is happening?
Probably on some level yes. How scary is it that he still has peoples personal information a year after being busted by the DEA? ( OK, maybe not him but his organization).

Is the new Z a fed?
I don't know. That is a heavy accusation.

As far as the rest of it, IE the replicas, "shaggy", its already been discussed to death........ Anybody who wants can read and make their own determination.