GuerillaPete
Well-known Member
Good numbers for igf1.
Always enjoyed this peptide stack especially for sleep but never did bloods on them .
Thanks for the info .
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
A GH and fat loss protocol (rhGH lipolysis) that is science-based
- Thread starter Type-IIx
- Start date
Always enjoyed this peptide stack especially for sleep but never did bloods on them .
Thanks for the info .
Deadp007
Well-known Member
What's your dose schedule for the Ipa & Mod-GRF?
HB_22
Well-known Member
Just one big shot of 1mg ipa + 100mcg Mod Grf right before bed. Sometimes I do 1.5mg with 150mcg mod grf.
Type-IIx
Well-known Member
Was not statistically significant at even a very low confidence interval of less than (<) 90% (p=0.110). This kind of level of confidence is not even relied upon in the social sciences, and it means that we cannot distinguish a 27% change in either direction to anything besides mere chance given this study's power.Weird. I find conflicting data in studies that tend to show deep wave sleep pattern is reduced when exogenous growth hormone is administred.
Impact of growth hormone replacement therapy on sleep in adult patients with growth hormone deficiency of pituitary origin - PMC
We previously reported that adult patients with GH deficiency (GHD) due to a confirmed or likely pituitary defect, as compared to healthy controls individually matched for age, gender and BMI, have more slow-wave sleep (SWS) and higher delta ...www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
The data tend to show the opposite from where I sit.
Type-IIx
Well-known Member
I promise that I am working on a way to get this out for you guys.
Type-IIx
Well-known Member
The full spectrum being... two (3 if you include placental GH in pregnant women; but that will not be stimulated by GHS-R & GHRH-R agonism).
22K-GH (same as rhGH), which we want; and 20K-GH, a shit isoform, constituting ~5-10% of GH in circulation, that is just weak GH.
22K-GH is evolutionarily optimized (e.g., works better than porcine GH in pigs, etc.); 20K-GH is basically a vestigial GH isoform (like the spleen is a vestigial organ), that we only still secrete because we haven't evolved out of it yet.
RhGH > secretagogues
PissedPajamas
Member
Effects of growth hormone in the central nervous system
ABSTRACT Growth hormone (GH) is best known for its effect stimulating tissue and somatic growth...
Interesting data I found regarding GH’s effect on metabolism. Orexin is a wakefulness promoter, I only know this because I’m prescribed daridorexant (Quviviq) which is an orexin-antagonist to help with my insomnia.
I’m shit at interpreting data but can I assume that taking lots of GH might be worsening my insomnia? And possibly why the closer I take it to bed the more fragmented my sleep gets?
@Type-IIx
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Type-IIx
Well-known Member
It sure can and if you suspect it, then you can iterate through the steps of first administering far away from sleep, then reducing dose, and finally eliminating outright, if sleep quality is intolerable.Effects of growth hormone in the central nervous system
ABSTRACT Growth hormone (GH) is best known for its effect stimulating tissue and somatic growth...www.scielo.br
Interesting data I found regarding GH’s effect on metabolism. Orexin is a wakefulness promoter, I only know this because I’m prescribed daridorexant (Quviviq) which is an orexin-antagonist to help with my insomnia.
I’m shit at interpreting data but can I assume that taking lots of GH might be worsening my insomnia? And possibly why the closer I take it to bed the more fragmented my sleep gets?
@Type-IIx
PissedPajamas
Member
Word. You’ve inspired me to research GH way more than I normally would lol, thank you for your time and looking forward to that book release
LSDPowerlifting
Banned
@Type-IIx
So you've totally changed the way I would take a low dose of GH. When I stop this massive dose I'm on and drop down to 4iu I'll be injecting it within an hour of my breakfast. I used to wait 1.5 to 2 hours after a meal to do my daily GH injection, but now I realize that the dose was always peaked a couple hours later when I would eat my next meal, and that can't be good, at least this way GH serum will be past the peak when bg levels are spiked from my next meal. Do you agree with this?
So I'll be taking my low dose GH the same way I'm now taking my bolus, except with the bolus there is always a workout after and with low dose sometimes there will be a workout and sometimes there won't. I'm not into injecting fasted and staying fasted, I don't agree with fasting unless you literally have too much muscle and want to get rid of some, someday I hope to be blessed with that like I've seen a few dudes on here claim to be.
So you've totally changed the way I would take a low dose of GH. When I stop this massive dose I'm on and drop down to 4iu I'll be injecting it within an hour of my breakfast. I used to wait 1.5 to 2 hours after a meal to do my daily GH injection, but now I realize that the dose was always peaked a couple hours later when I would eat my next meal, and that can't be good, at least this way GH serum will be past the peak when bg levels are spiked from my next meal. Do you agree with this?
So I'll be taking my low dose GH the same way I'm now taking my bolus, except with the bolus there is always a workout after and with low dose sometimes there will be a workout and sometimes there won't. I'm not into injecting fasted and staying fasted, I don't agree with fasting unless you literally have too much muscle and want to get rid of some, someday I hope to be blessed with that like I've seen a few dudes on here claim to be.
Type-IIx
Well-known Member
Sure, if principally concerned about insulin sensitivity & metabolic health, if you are able to plan your meals (and their macronutrient contents) around the increase to FFAs that reflect systemic insulin resistance, that is a good thing.
More importantly here, however, is the fact that this calls for a different protocol (that the book details). That is, this thread describes a lipolysis protocol, a different use case from preserving metabolic health/insulin sensitivity (e.g., with longer courses).
I don't think anyone that reads this forum should ever seek to lose muscle.
For a bodybuilder, besides a case where a modified intermittent fasting (IF) or time-restricted eating (TRE) dietary regimen is the only option, because of a rigid structured schedule (i.e., work, study) & lack of food availability (e.g., no kitchen; limited & labile food sources because of financial expense, inaccessibility to supply chains, etc.), fasting is almost always contraindicated. These are the least bad options because dietary strategies & tactics can at least be used in such (IF; TRE) regimens to mitigate protein losses, and even to promote muscle gain – albeit usually at a diminished rate for an intermediate or advanced bodybuilder vs. a more appropriately structured dietary regimen for muscle gain (or cutting; or recomp).
PissedPajamas
Member
How long can high dose GH be safely ran for, considering A1C and BG measurements are all in a healthy range? Is there anything worth considering from a risk assessment/health management standpoint? I’ve been playing with 15-20iu’s post workout for two months now and the only side I’ve recently developed is some CTS issues at night. A1C is under 5 and BG is below 80’s while bulking
@Type-IIx
@Type-IIx
Fattyone
Well-known Member
Are you running slin?
When are you pinning in relation to your meals post workout?
I’ve just been doing mine at night right after my last meal. I can’t for the life of me see where it would work anywhere else without slin or having your next meal 3-4 hours later.
PissedPajamas
Member
Yeah I’m on slin, Just 20iu lantus daily. BG was in the mid 80’s before lantus but now it’s even lower than that.
I pin directly postWO in the gym bathroom and eat about 30mins later when I’m home
TDR
New Member
Hey OP I'm late to the party, but interresting read, thank you!
LSDPowerlifting
Banned
Idk but I'm about to find out. I'm currently having no issues 5.5 weeks in, but I'm on a ton of tren, so I think that a ton of tren without insulin allows me to run 24iu a day just fine, it'll be interesting when I switch to high dose test in 4 and a half weeks, I bet I'll need some slin. My bg is hitting 80's 2 or 3 hours after eating, and I'm also on .5mg a week semaglutide, it just seems like tren keeps me immune to sensitivity loss. 18iu pw and 6iu before bed
Is there a difference considering your own GH release at night with am vs pm shots?
Or is the bodys own production halted anyway when exogenous rhGh is administered daily?
Currently on 3iu and AM protocol, with AM workouts, and limiting carbs for 8 hours post injection.
Hoping for better fatloss with this.
But, would PM shots be still better overall?
My reasoning for AM is that then (if not inhibited from the exo gh) at night you would get own gh rise and then continued with the am shots..
Then again the workout window would probably benefit from the carbs if Gh isnt taken in the morning.
Just some thoughts..
Or is the bodys own production halted anyway when exogenous rhGh is administered daily?
Currently on 3iu and AM protocol, with AM workouts, and limiting carbs for 8 hours post injection.
Hoping for better fatloss with this.
But, would PM shots be still better overall?
My reasoning for AM is that then (if not inhibited from the exo gh) at night you would get own gh rise and then continued with the am shots..
Then again the workout window would probably benefit from the carbs if Gh isnt taken in the morning.
Just some thoughts..
29trt
Well-known Member
Yeah guys are always looking at half the ecuation when deducing they are insulin resistant or not.... your BG might be ok but what is your insulin level at?
The Chase Irons case is a good example, he recently posted bloodwork and his BG was also around 85 if I remember correctly you would think great I am insulin sensitive but than you look at his insulin level and it was at 14 which if you input in a homa-ir calc you get a 3 score which is highly insulin resistant...
So AAS might improve the insulin sensitivity in the muscles but most of the blood glucose lowering effects come from them actually increasing insulin secretion....
If you have impaired insulin secretion for whatever reason you will get higher BG when taking AAS like it is in my case, low dose tren initially lowered my BG but after increasing food the BG started to climb even though I tripled the Tren dose why? My insulin did not increase at the rate required for whatever reason... so I went from 2 to 5...which even though my BG is around 110 still gives me a HOMA-ir of 1.3 ...
This might be the reason why some people explode when adding insulin to their cycle and some just get fat...
All just theory I am sure someone will have something to say about it
PissedPajamas
Member
High endogenous insulin secretion means your pancreas is working overtime to shuttle nutrients. This is where lantus comes in handy.
I’ve been having great success controlling BG and insulin levels with morning fasted cardio and taking R-ALA, berberine, citrus bergamot and an activated B vitamin in the morning empty stomach. I also use 25mg Ephedra and 12mg Albuterol every morning regardless of bulk or cut for my cardio to mobilize fatty acids and increase insulin sensitivity.
Type-IIx
Well-known Member
As @29trt intimated, the use of exogenous insulin worsens systemic insulin sensitivity despite lowering blood glucose, because systemic insulin resistance is a product of blood insulin × glucose (HOMA-IR).
Hyperglycemia ≠ Insulin Resistance. Rather, the two are associated in the pathogenesis or natural progression to T2DM. Note that elevated insulin secretion, reciprocal to insulin sensitivity, precedes elevations to blood glucose in this progression; and AAS promote the associated risk factors, as does insulin:
Glucotoxicity refers to the toxic effect that elevated glucose levels have, damaging the pancreatic β cells.
Regulation of insulin sensitivity occurs by several mechanisms – broadly, central mechanisms include GLP-1 & GIP receptors; peripheral mechanisms include transporter proteins, e.g. glucose transporters (e.g., GLUT-4 in skeletal muscle). HOMA-IR is one measure that provides insight into systemic insulin sensitivity (quantifying its reciprocal, insulin resistance).
You can read more about this & its mechanisms in the following article under the heading "Exogenous insulin-induced insulin resistance":
Insulin's effects and mechanisms in promoting skeletal muscle hypertrophy
This article is intended to provide a comprehensive understanding on insulin actions for the bodybuilder and biochemist alike to counter a narrative that insulin is (supposedly) not muscle protein anabolic.
thinksteroids.com
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