A GH and fat loss protocol (rhGH lipolysis) that is science-based

[benfrankparkway]

Read this thread over the last day or so. So much info. Some of it hard to keep up with.

About to try HGH for the first time and came here to find the best protocol only to find out I think there’s no way to have it “the best”.

Main goals: fat loss/improved sleep

Schedule.
Wake at 4:30, pin.
30-40minute LISS at 4:45
At work at 6:30am
First meal (currently no direct carb source) 7:30ish am
Workout at 6pm

No real way to push the first meal farther.

Guessing this isn’t that big of a deal, but missing the magic part where i get to burn fat more effectively during cardio.

man we pretty much have the same exact schedule. What did you end up doing. My hope would be wake up at 430 inject gym is 5 minutes away, Do cardio for 30min then leave for work. Eat at work around 730ish. Should I be eating carbs with my meal at 730?

 

[benfrankparkway]

@Type-IIx just for clarification and idiot-proofing this thing. Does meal timing post cardio have any impact on the FFAs being burned. Ie, will doing 30 min cardio at +2 hour, followed by eating five minutes later, netatively impact burning the FFAs?

bump to this question as I am still searching for answers

 

[Type-IIx]

bump to this question as I am still searching for answers

Both intramuscular (IMTG) & circulating FFAs are potential energy sources during exercise. It appears that IMTG are more important during activity & circulating FFAs (from GH, AT, or dietary intake) are more important during recovery. At rest and during low intensity exercise (e.g., LISS/Zone 1 - 2 aerobic endurance exercise), a high % of energy comes from β-oxidation, with increasing exercise intensity (> 70 - 80% VO₂max), there is a (gradual) shift from fat to carbohydrate as the preferred energy substrate.

So morning fasting, or a protein shake in water only, is a practice that this protocol supports as it will relatively mobilize more fat from storage than in the case of a meal containing fat/lipid & LISS done post-prandially.

The reason that I am careful to avoid making any dietary recommendations is that the protocol is diet agnostic. It is lipolytic regardless of whether you skip breakfast (IF) or restrict feedings (TRE). And honestly, it can be frustrating to open the floodgates to disagreements between zealots over their preferred diets.

Here is a reader who understood and implemented the information from this thread (and probably some of my other writings) well:

@Type-IIx - thank your for this write up and protocol. As I’m trying to shed 10-ish lbs, I’ve transitioned to your suggested protocol from 2 IUs morning and night and have been surprised at the results in only 5 days - I now take 4 IUs upon waking and 60-90 mins later, I lift then 40-75 mins of Zone 2 cardio.

In addition to 180mg weekly of TestC, I’m planning on taking 75mg VAR (25mg 3x per day) beginning next week to see if it’ll help retain muscle and strength in a roughly 400 - 600 cal deficit.

@Cridi887 - you also take terze? Is there a fat burning component involved with either that or sema? Or is it simply appetite control? I have no issues limiting food, so if it’s just the latter, I think I’m good.

thanks all.

 

[OldGHGuy]

Both intramuscular (IMTG) & circulating FFAs are potential energy sources during exercise. It appears that IMTG are more important during activity & circulating FFAs (from GH, AT, or dietary intake) are more important during recovery. At rest and during low intensity exercise (e.g., LISS/Zone 1 - 2 aerobic endurance exercise), a high % of energy comes from β-oxidation, with increasing exercise intensity (> 70 - 80% VO₂max), there is a (gradual) shift from fat to carbohydrate as the preferred energy substrate.

So morning fasting, or a protein shake in water only, is a practice that this protocol supports as it will relatively mobilize more fat from storage than in the case of a meal containing fat/lipid & LISS done post-prandially.

The reason that I am careful to avoid making any dietary recommendations is that the protocol is diet agnostic. It is lipolytic regardless of whether you skip breakfast (IF) or restrict feedings (TRE). And honestly, it can be frustrating to open the floodgates to disagreements between zealots over their preferred diets.

Here is a reader who understood and implemented the information from this thread (and probably some of my other writings) well:

Can you support black coffee post morning bolus?

 

[OldGHGuy]

Can you support black coffee post morning bolus?

Just to add: Many of us need the coffee to offset the tiredness caused from morning bolus (one main reason a pin before bed has always been my protocol). I'm hoping the coffee would not interfere as I really want to try your AM approach since I am an early riser anyway

 

[Type-IIx]

Can you support black coffee post morning bolus?

Caffeine promotes insulin resistance like circulating FFAs so just drink your coffee around the bolus (and refrain from caffeine at periods without elevated circulating FFAs) and you'll be fine.

 

[OldGHGuy]

Thanks man. You are on a whole nother level! Excuse my ignorance: what times would a person not have elevated circulating FFAs (and should thus avoid black coffee)?

 

[Type-IIx]

Thanks man. You are on a whole nother level! Excuse my ignorance: what times would a person not have elevated circulating FFAs (and should thus avoid black coffee)?

You are very welcome. Here, I have quoted the title post in this thread and highlighted the relevant portions. If the image does not appear, navigate back to post #1. The descending portions of the curve, particularly at 4 - 8 h & 12 - 16 h post-bolus reflect times where you would logically avoid caffeine:

see FFA liberation:

View attachment 157904
FFA liberation: FFA liberation follows an oscillating, rhythymic pattern for 24 hr post-bolus (palmitate [glycerol] flux)
- Post-5IU rhGH administration subcutaneous vs. jet-injected

The normal 24-hour pattern of FFAs is characterized by high values prior to a meal and low levels post-meal [68]

 

[Trinitro]

You are very welcome. Here, I have quoted the title post in this thread and highlighted the relevant portions. If the image does not appear, navigate back to post #1. The descending portions of the curve, particularly at 4 - 8 h & 12 - 16 h post-bolus reflect times where you would logically avoid caffeine:

Do you think there would be any difference in results of ED injections of say 3iu vs. Mon/wed/fri with 7ius each? Came around to this idea from someone else, same weekly dose 21ius but greater spike and drop.
If everything else stay same, e.g. am bolus before training+cardio

 

[Type-IIx]

Do you think there would be any difference in results of ED injections of say 3iu vs. Mon/wed/fri with 7ius each? Came around to this idea from someone else, same weekly dose 21ius but greater spike and drop.
If everything else stay same, e.g. am bolus before training+cardio

There is, yes. I discuss this in the book, it relates to a different protocol from this lipolysis one that this thread is for.

 

[BrockSamson42]

Do you think there would be any difference in results of ED injections of say 3iu vs. Mon/wed/fri with 7ius each? Came around to this idea from someone else, same weekly dose 21ius but greater spike and drop.
If everything else stay same, e.g. am bolus before training+cardio

From what I know, you will get maximum Lipolysis roughly every 12 hours assuming your dose saturated your cells, which in my estimation wouldn't be more than 1.5iu-2iu...probably less honestly. So I would do ED 3iu, split. Every 12 hours.

 

[Trinitro]

There is, yes. I discuss this in the book, it relates to a different protocol from this lipolysis one that this thread is for.

Cool, is the book out now? Could you post a link to it?
I was also refering to the lipolysis effect, though, in the sense that is the median same after a 'week' fatloss-wise, or is it better to have more often lower rates of FFAs circulating and burning, or one greater less frequent? Or insignificant and better to go by personal preference/side effects.

 

[Type-IIx]

From what I know, you will get maximum Lipolysis roughly every 12 hours assuming your dose saturated your cells, which in my estimation wouldn't be more than 1.5iu-2iu...probably less honestly. So I would do ED 3iu, split. Every 12 hours.

This misconception was addressed the day after the original post, on page 1 of this thread:

It's broscience. There's no theoretical upper limit for the lipolytic effects of exogenous rhGH by dose. Whereas a frequently cited paper by Hansen, et al. (2002) using a microdialysis technique to measure IV-administered doses up to 6µg/kg (1.8 IU for a 100 kg adult) corresponding to endogenously (pulsatilely) secreted concentrations (the IV bolus at these concentrations is used to mimic pulsatile release) or just above endogenous levels and lipolysis. This would be congruent with replacement rhGH dosages, or 1.458IU for an 81kg male (I believe this is the study these guys are referring to). In Hansen they reported glycerol rates of appearance in fat depots (i.e., µM/min).

In a more relevant study, Healy ML, Gibney J, Pentecost C, Croos P, Russell-Jones DL, Sönksen PH, Umpleby AM. Effects of high-dose growth hormone on glucose and glycerol metabolism at rest and during exercise in endurance-trained athletes. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Jan;91(1):320-7. doi: 10.1210/jc.2005-0916. Epub 2005 Nov 1. PMID: 16263834., that looked at high dose subq-administered rhGH, demonstrating substantial differences in glycerol concentrations (µM/L in serum) between the up to 16IU daily group and placebo post-exercise. Here, glycerol concentrations differ markedly (<100 µM/L in placebo vs. ~300µM/L at 60-min post-exercise 0.2IU/kg rhGH dose).

 

[Type-IIx]

Cool, is the book out now? Could you post a link to it?
I was also refering to the lipolysis effect, though, in the sense that is the median same after a 'week' fatloss-wise, or is it better to have more often lower rates of FFAs circulating and burning, or one greater less frequent? Or insignificant and better to go by personal preference/side effects.

Not yet, I am working on distribution for the paperback.

I'm behind schedule since I have previously hoped to get it out in print by early 2023, and we're now in the back half of the year.

You can take a sneak peak [link] at the book's table of contents, that have been expanded in the sections on GH Secretagogues.

 

[Trinitro]

Not yet, I am working on distribution for the paperback.

I'm behind schedule since I have previously hoped to get it out in print by early 2023, and we're now in the back half of the year.

You can take a sneak peak [link] at the book's table of contents, that have been expanded in the sections on GH Secretagogues.

Very nice, after some time has passed from the pb release, an ebook would be awesome too thanks

 

[Juggy3838]

I’m gonna have to back down the pre workout dose. I tried ~7iu this AM at 5am, lift at 6:30. Came home and walked the dog, ate at 8:30ish, mostly protein and trace carbs…(eggwhites/onions/peppers/salsa). Then proceeded to go into a drooling couch nap which is not normal for me. But neither is a big ass dose of GH in the morning.

I did 7iu because…..well….that was what was left in the reconstituted vial. Too much too fast.

 

[OldGHGuy]

I’m gonna have to back down the pre workout dose. I tried ~7iu this AM at 5am, lift at 6:30. Came home and walked the dog, ate at 8:30ish, mostly protein and trace carbs…(eggwhites/onions/peppers/salsa). Then proceeded to go into a drooling couch nap which is not normal for me. But neither is a big ass dose of GH in the morning.

I did 7iu because…..well….that was what was left in the reconstituted vial. Too much too fast.

I'm worried about that too. Gonna start up again in a week on this protocol. I beleive firmly Type-IIx knows what he is talking about and that this protocol is the best way to maximize GH. I'm just a little skeptical that it is PRACTICAL, from a drowsiness/fatigue standpoint the rest of the day

 

[Date_Mike]

rhGH does promote recovery from exercise including resistance training by procollagenous activity (primarily affecting the extracellular matrix), anticatabolic effects (reduced catabolism of amino acids, improved nitrogen balance), improved sleep (increased slow wave sleep), and improved mitochondrial oxidative capacity.

Dose-response is individualized, but do consider that 2IU 5 days weekly is less than the average (mean) weekly production of a healthy 22 - 28 year old male. So a lot of the dosages I see are very low and often are mere replacement.

Yes, GH may enlarge gynecomastia and in some persons cause it outright.

rhGH does reduce extrathyroidal (peripheral) T4 levels by increased peripheral conversion to T3. It thus dysregulates in a sense thyroid function as a rule. It is worth monitoring serum T4 at any dosage increase. There may be a synergistic effect on intramuscular IGF-I (mIGF-I) levels between T4+hGH. This does not mean exogenous T4 is advisable, it means that were it not for the presence of T4 in peripheral tissue, there may not be a mechanism for increased intramuscular IGF-I splice variants to be increased. This is rather theoretical.

How does it affect TSH. I’m assuming since T4 is reduced it stimulates TSH?

 

[Juggy3838]

I'm worried about that too. Gonna start up again in a week on this protocol. I beleive firmly Type-IIx knows what he is talking about and that this protocol is the best way to maximize GH. I'm just a little skeptical that it is PRACTICAL, from a drowsiness/fatigue standpoint the rest of the day

some don’t get the lethargy…I think it’s gonna boil down to individual preference.

I’m gonna do 3iu lipolysis protocol on days I can, and other days do 5-6iu pre bed. I am the GH=coma type.

 

[Type-IIx]

I’m gonna have to back down the pre workout dose. I tried ~7iu this AM at 5am, lift at 6:30. Came home and walked the dog, ate at 8:30ish, mostly protein and trace carbs…(eggwhites/onions/peppers/salsa). Then proceeded to go into a drooling couch nap which is not normal for me. But neither is a big ass dose of GH in the morning.

I did 7iu because…..well….that was what was left in the reconstituted vial. Too much too fast.

Yeah, that can happen - it's very individual. For this reason, I can't stress enough that the protocol calls for as high a dose as is tolerable and feasible (fiscally & availability-wise). After you find that optimal dose for yourself, then you take the remainder of your dose (in line with your objective, e.g., lipolysis, growth, anti-aging, recovery/return from immobilization & the tasks, e.g., whether insulin sensitivity takes precedence over diminished IGF-I) at nighttime (pre-bed).