This is a general statement to anyone "Quit slamming new products into your body trying to stop something you are being paranoid about because you will do more harm then good....."
These are Not Pro's, The SOTO products and thier ingredients listed are fine, the ATS product not to sure as I would have to research each ingredient.
I know that they (ats) offer PH's epistane and others but it is a serious crime to spike a product with an ingredient not on the label (if that ingredient is classified as a drug) so i dont think they would.
Ok lets look at the ingredients. I'm pulling this from memory so I might be off a little here.
Androsta-5 (arimistane) is a suicide estrogen blocker which means that it intercepts estrogen in the body (It does not change your normal estrogen production but rather stops it from binding in the body. Androsta-5 is also a metabolite of 7-keto-dhea, it is naturally occuring and is DSHEA compliant. It is non toxic. Androsta-5 is used to treat Gyno... It is used as a diet ingredient also...
1-DHEA (3-hydroxy-5alpha-androst-1-en-17 one) not to be confused with (3beta-hydroxy linked in this post) is also a DSHEA compliant ingredient. It converts into test in the body and is non toxic.
IGF 10x. If you do the research online you will see that it is Deer antler extract, (some put it at 50:1 ratio) and about 500mg per cap.
Now lets look at Gyno. (Gynecomastia)
Males and Females have glands in the breast tissue. It is possible for males to develop breast cancer but is easily discovered because the size of the glands are relativly small. If any man tries hard enough they will find the glands around and just to the outside of the nipple.
Gyno is condition that is created when large amounts of estrogen are produced by the body for long periods of time. but we are taling about really high levels for really long periods of time.
Now estorgen is not bad, it is required to lubricate the joints and is important for building muscle, but large amounts of estrogen cause your body to store large amounts of fat and can start to swell up your mamory glands. If you have ever had achy joints from a PH such as epistane this is because your body has stopped production of estrogen...
Because fat people (24-30% body fat and higher) tend to be less active, and tend to have much higher levels of estrogen in the body they are prone to developing Gyno. It is possible to develop gyno if you are not fat but highly unlikly since being skinny is a sign that your body is not producing much estrogen...
So lets look at the ingredient effects on the body.
Androsta-5 blocks estrogen. When the body sees a decrease in estrogen, Prolactin is temperately increased. it is 100% temporary, Prolactin is responsible for making the nipples secrete a little more fluid then what you normally see. You see some "lactation" and you are testing high for prolactin, this can be attributed to Androsta-5. Next time you take this ingredient pyramid into and out of it.. easy...
1DHEA converts into test in the body, It is a naturally occuring ingredient, it is not methelated and has been used for many decades with 0 problems reported with correct use. Some companies sell low potency 1DHEA and if you are used to that and start taking a high potency 1DHEA you will see a HUGE difference.
Deer Antler Extract is shown to increase lean muscle mass only when high potency and high amounts of product are taken. I know of a few all natural body builders that are taking the soto 10x, Deer Antler Max pills, or i forget the other one..
In summary, what you are describing is in the relm of what your body would do when you suddenly remove / decrease estrogen in the body..
Next time you or anyone else is looking at taking anything with androsta-5 just slowly move into and out of the product (like 1 cap for 2 days 2 caps for 2 days then 3 for the cycle taporing off at the end...)
To add some deeper though....
as for PCT, Androsta-5 is used as an ingredient for PCT when coming off of PH's
