Adrenal Thread

[marianco]

Adrenal Fatigue and hair loss

I worked my way up to 20 mg a day of Isocort, and had to stop due to the development of acne on face. I have no idea why. I was thinking I must have been overdoing it, and have been considering starting again at a smaller dose. I did worry that I might be shutting down the adrenals. I have been diagnosed with stage II adrenal fatigue per my salivary cortisol tests. My N.D. told me to continue on the Adrenal extracts I have, and supplement with 50 mg DHEA. I have been loosing some hair and am not sure if it is the DHEA or my Armour dosing.

Hair loss and acne have many causes.

For example:
Excessive cortisol can cause hair loss
Excessive DHEA can cause hair loss and acne. Most women cannot tolerate more than about 5-10 mg of DHEA due to hair loss.
Stress can cause hair loss
Stress can cause a loss of zinc, which in turn can cause hair loss
Excessive DHT can cause hair loss
Low or high thyroid hormone can cause hair loss

 

[Legenden1999]

Yes that is. Because that scale is derrived from the values taken from physically ill people. Just like the Total Testosterone levels, serum cortisol tests falsely indicate all is well. Dr William McK. Jefferies was the pioneer for the diagnosis and treatment of adrenal problems. He found that the AM cortisol in men was closer to 30 and an ACTH stimulation test produced a result of 50+ in most subjects. I tend to agree with that. My AM cortisol is 28, an ACTH stimulation test results in only 38, and I have had adrenal symptoms long before I realized I was hypogonadal.

Damn.. I distrust my endo more and more, the more I learn in here. Marianco, can you confirm this ?

My AM cortisol is 17.8 and after a 30min ACTH stim is was 24.5. Should I look into this ?

I would like to hear Marianco's thoughts on this one too:

if you stay <35-40mg hydrocortisone/day, then it's a pretty safe dose.

JH

 

[SPE]

Damn.. I distrust my endo more and more, the more I learn in here. Marianco, can you confirm this ?

My AM cortisol is 17.8 and after a 30min ACTH stim is was 24.5. Should I look into this ?

I would like to hear Marianco's thoughts on this one too:


JH

I think you have to take both how the individual feels as well as their labs. Some might feel ok with an am cortisol level of 17.8. Mine was 17 and after learning about symptoms of adrenal insufficiency, I fit it to a T. It wasn't until I added thyroid meds that I began to realize the severe anxiety associated with a distressed adrenal system. Now, I'm on 8 isocort/day as well as 1.25 grains of armour and 50mcg of synthroid. I try and keep my replacement ratio at about 92% T4 to 8% T3(what the body normally produces). So far so good, but my morning temperatures are still LOW. This morning it was 96.3.

 

[Vforcer2]

Hair loss and acne have many causes.

For example:
Excessive cortisol can cause hair loss
Excessive DHEA can cause hair loss and acne. Most women cannot tolerate more than about 5-10 mg of DHEA due to hair loss.
Stress can cause hair loss
Stress can cause a loss of zinc, which in turn can cause hair loss
Excessive DHT can cause hair loss
Low or high thyroid hormone can cause hair loss

I am unsure if it is the DHEA or the recent 1 grain increase in Armour that is causing the hair loss. I started the 50 mg of DHEA back in January and my DHEA -S jumped from 174 to 404 (120-520) in just three weeks. My DHT was only at 35 (no range given) on this last testing. I wonder if the DHEA has continued to build up in my body to an excessive level?

I only had the acne when I was taking 20 mg of ISOCORT. I could literally see inflammation in my pores around my nose and chin while on that dose.

I have seen many incredible improvements in my health as a result using the Armour, and I didn't think hair loss would happen until someone reached the "hyper" stage, which I have never felt, even on 4 grains a day.

Something is going on however. I have had much more oil on my face, just like when I was on HRT. I suppose the additonal Armour and/or DHEA could have gotten my endocrine system back on the right track, and I could be producing much more T than before.

Looks like the only way to solve the puzzle is to get some blood tests.

 

[SPE]

I am unsure if it is the DHEA or the recent 1 grain increase in Armour that is causing the hair loss. I started the 50 mg of DHEA back in January and my DHEA -S jumped from 174 to 404 (120-520) in just three weeks. My DHT was only at 35 (no range given) on this last testing. I wonder if the DHEA has continued to build up in my body to an excessive level?

I only had the acne when I was taking 20 mg of ISOCORT. I could literally see inflammation in my pores around my nose and chin while on that dose.

I have seen many incredible improvements in my health as a result using the Armour, and I didn't think hair loss would happen until someone reached the "hyper" stage, which I have never felt, even on 4 grains a day.

Something is going on however. I have had much more oil on my face, just like when I was on HRT. I suppose the additonal Armour and/or DHEA could have gotten my endocrine system back on the right track, and I could be producing much more T than before.

Looks like the only way to solve the puzzle is to get some blood tests.

Since I added the isocort I have also noticed alot more oil on my skin. BUT, my dry skin has also cleared up. Something interesting happened to me when I added the isocort. I had been on 50mg DHEA for almost 9 months and couldn't get my level about 300 (260-650). Once I added the isocort, my DHEA shot up to 620.

 

[Vforcer2]

Since I added the isocort I have also noticed alot more oil on my skin. BUT, my dry skin has also cleared up. Something interesting happened to me when I added the isocort. I had been on 50mg DHEA for almost 9 months and couldn't get my level about 300 (260-650). Once I added the isocort, my DHEA shot up to 620.

Yes it is my understanding that Cortisol helps the cells to be more receptive i.e. less resistant to things like nutrients and hormones (including Armour).

 

[Legenden1999]

I definately agree that more is not better. I have been self treating, however. What I've heard is that if you stay <35-40mg hydrocortisone/day, then it's a pretty safe dose. Thoughts?

SPE,

How do you determine your dose, and where do you get the drug ?

JH

 

[Vforcer2]

SPE,

How do you determine your dose, and where do you get the drug ?

JH

SPE,
It is my understanding that 40 mg per day is how much the body produces in a normal day, when not under any measurable stress. It would appear(at least to me) you are taking enough to completely shut down your adrenals.

Marianco mentioned something to that effect earlier in this thread.

 

[SPE]

SPE,
It is my understanding that 40 mg per day is how much the body produces in a normal day, when not under any measurable stress. It would appear(at least to me) you are taking enough to completely shut down your adrenals.

Marianco mentioned something to that effect earlier in this thread.

Vforcer2, as I stated above I only take 8 Isocorts/day. This is as you know about 20mg cortisol.

 

[love_en]

Vforcer2, as I stated above I only take 8 Isocorts/day. This is as you know about 20mg cortisol.

Adrenal shutdown is the party line used by the medical community to deny treatment to people whose adrenals are just bad enough to make them feel like crap, but not enough to kill them. On the other hand, every doctor I know, prescribes 20-40mg of prednisone per day and wonders why his patient develops side effects and crashes when it is time to discontinue. The equivalent to 20mg of hydrocortisone is only 5mg of prednisone. I can just imagine how much more regressive medicine would be if insulin or thyroid were used in the same manner as the corticosteroids.

 

[bullmastiff]

Adrenal Shutdown - The Yeast Conncection

Eight isocort is not likely to cause complete adrenal shutdown. The half life of hydrocortisone is much shortern than prednisone which stays active much of the day. I believe I read the cortisol is active for about four hours.

I was reading a book called the "Yeast Connection" where the doctor talks about natural thyroid and natural cortisone (hydrocortisone). When patients complain of chronic fatigue and depression he routinely tries them out on 20 mg of hydocortisone. ( 5 mg 4 times a day). Sometimes he sees dramatic results within one to three days where the patients just feel much better.
He said he doesn't rely that much on labs to presribe cortef but rather on clinical symptoms. He feels dosages at this level are very safe.

 

[wildfox]

Adrenal shutdown is the party line used by the medical community to deny treatment to people whose adrenals are just bad enough to make them feel like crap, but not enough to kill them. On the other hand, every doctor I know, prescribes 20-40mg of prednisone per day and wonders why his patient develops side effects and crashes when it is time to discontinue. The equivalent to 20mg of hydrocortisone is only 5mg of prednisone. I can just imagine how much more regressive medicine would be if insulin or thyroid were used in the same manner as the corticosteroids.

love_en, serious question: have you thought about becoming a doctor?
Seriously, you know your stuff. We need more doctors that understand
all of this properly, not having sold out to the PharmaMan.

WF

 

[SPE]

For anyone who is interested, this is a great group with lots of info on adrenal issues.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hypopituitary_Support/

 

[love_en]

love_en, serious question: have you thought about becoming a doctor?
Seriously, you know your stuff. We need more doctors that understand
all of this properly, not having sold out to the PharmaMan.

WF

Bad idea. Do you have any idea of the heat I would pull for actually being concerned for the health of my patients? The DEA would be investigating me to no end. Pharmaceutical companies would hate me for not giving out dick pills and SSRIs like candy. I have a good idea of how I would stand with those castrates in the AMA.

I had to educate myself so I would not end up like my aunt. After her total hysterectomy, she is so mentally and physically crippled. To those that do not know; a hysterectomy is the female equivalent to surgical castration. Seeing how she turned out, I would guess she needs T, E, thyroid and adrenal replacement. She claims her tests are normal in those areas, I would guess they are low-normal on that reference range. Right now, she is on medication for asthma, arthritis, allergies, cholesterol, fibromyalgia, hypertension, anxiety, and depression. She is on 19 different medications per day. I have no wish to become a chemistry experiment for the pharmaceutical companies.

 

[Legenden1999]

My AM cortisol is 28, an ACTH stimulation test results in only 38

Why would you call this a "questionable response to an ACTH stimulation test" ?

My AM cortisol was 17.8 and after a 30min ACTH stim is was 24.5, and this was called perfectly normal by my endo.

JH

 

[love_en]

I only went about 10 points above my base reading. I am also heat intolerant, can't retain salt, and I also have many of the other symptoms associated with adrenal problems.

 

[SPE]

Why would you call this a "questionable response to an ACTH stimulation test" ?

My AM cortisol was 17.8 and after a 30min ACTH stim is was 24.5, and this was called perfectly normal by my endo.

JH

Perfectly normal? Yeah right. If your cortisol doesn't double after an ACTH stim test, you have adrenal insufficiency.

 

[Legenden1999]

Perfectly normal? Yeah right. If your cortisol doesn't double after an ACTH stim test, you have adrenal insufficiency.

He even checked my result with another endo, because I told him I thought he might be wrong. Same answer.

Found this text regarding interpreting a ACTH test on this website http://www.arup-lab.com/guides/clt/tests/clt_fro7.jsp (scroll down a little)

Interpretation: Normally, serum cortisol will increase by greater than 7 µg/dL with a peak serum cortisol greater than 20 µg/dL. Note that the peak value is more important than the incremental change, since an incremental change may be absent in stressed patients where adrenal output of cortisol is already maximally stimulated by endogenous ACTH.

According to this both love_en and myself are pretty darn "normal".

JH

 

[SPE]

I will simply point you in the direction of this thread:

https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134239555

Read everything you can by Chrisgj2 in the link above.

The cortisol range (2-22) is was determined using sick people. With that in mind, ACTH Stim range is also flawed. If you are in the range above, you probably have adrenal insufficiency. Healthy cortisol numbers for men are upper 20's to around 30 for the 8am number.

 

[Legenden1999]

I will simply point you in the direction of this thread:

https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134239555

Read everything you can by Chrisgj2 in the link above.

The cortisol range (2-22) is was determined using sick people. With that in mind, ACTH Stim range is also flawed. If you are in the range above, you probably have adrenal insufficiency. Healthy cortisol numbers for men are upper 20's to around 30 for the 8am number.

Dunno what qualifications this guy have to make that claim. I hope Marianco will take a look at this guys statements in the above thread, and share his thoughts.

Reading his website I found this:

I was growing long grey hair (or half grey half dark) on my eyebrows. If I didn't pluck them I would have looked like Andy Rooney from 60 Minutes. They could grow over 2 inches long. I'd say this problem started 5 years ago and has gone down 90%. I also had problems with hair on earlobes, but this has also improved greatly..

What does that indicate ? thyroid or adrenal problems ?

In another of his post I found this:

TSH - For healthy men, I look for around 2. Any man I've seen with A TSH of 1.5 or lower before treatment is started was hypothyroid. If .703 is what your TSH was before any kind of treatment then obvious by that alone you are hypo. If this TSH value is gotten after treatment started, then all by itself tells me you are undertreated.

I doubt this very much. I have read many many places that a value at around 1 is considered normal. (optimal?)

Another thing he wrote:

The best test to get is the acth stimulation test. This test is the last word on if you have adrenal insufficiency or not. You look for your cortisol value to double after the stim.

From my understanding Marianco thinks othervise.

JH