Ah finally the NEXT (3rd) Generic GH Assay Thread

[mands]

Hey everyone! I was out of pocket with family all weekend. I will review the assays and get them posted a little later today if time permits. Thanks for understanding.

mands

 

[Mr MASSE]

We are all wanting for you mands...
Thanks so much for your time and help and support
Same to Dr. Jim

 

[AlphaLife]

Yea I understand but just the same lets limit interpersonal conflicts to PMs or another thread bc attempts to settle disputes on an evidence based thread serves NO COLLECTIVE PURPOSE and only creates an unnecessary and unwanted distraction.

THX

Totally agree. Thank you for your work @Dr JIM and @mands. Keep the worthwhile info coming. Next time I will ignore the trolls.

 

[mands]

SAMPLE --- - -- - 00

The Grey Top from TP 10 iu vial donated by a MESO member.

SAMPLE --------- 26

Godtropin 24iu vials donated by a MESO member.

SAMPLE ---------- 27

Godtropin 24iu vials donated by a MESO member.

SAMPLE -------- 28

Green Top Hyges 8 iu donated by a MESO member.

SAMPLE ---------- 43

Godtropin 24 iu vials donated by a MESO member.

SAMPLE------ E

Black Top Meditrope from TP and Donated by MESO member.

SAMPLE ----- F

Pharmtropin from Pharmacom 10 iu vial donated by MESO member.

SAMPLE ------- X

SAMPLE ---------- Y

Black Top Meditrope from TP 10 iu vial batch #17 donated by mands.

SAMPLE -------- Z (Note this sample is pending an Trypsin cleavage LC/MS bc the amino acid ratio is not entirely consistent with rHGH)

I would strongly suggest the donor obtain a baseline IGF and a repeat IGF several weeks thereafter to determine it's in-vivo efficacy.

Godtropin 24 iu vials donated by mands.

I apologize! I'm looking for the "X" sample now. I thought I would post all the others so people didn't get too crazy

mands

 

[Cpriest88]

Sheet updated ... Link Here: Generic HGH Assays

@mands was there a vendor/source reported for Sample No. 28? Naps?

 

[Cpriest88]

Based on these tests... quantitatively speaking... it appears the Black Top / Meditropes are the best bang for your buck. Consistently overdosed and cheaper then any other product listed here. I'm not taking into account the over dosage into the price point.. this is assuming you are paying for 10iu vials.. $/iu (Do your own homework on that)

And god damn :/ ... was really hoping the godtropins would take the crown... since I stocked up months before these tests started.... But now I figure on avg they are dosed 72% compared to advertised... so a rough and dirty dosing would put my 2iu at around 1.44iu ... if we overlook purity, bio-response and efficacy... and assume it performs near a USP bioequivalant generic hgh... how much of an impact does this theoretical -28% short fall of rhgh have in the long run in terms of anti-aging, improved igf levels, lbm recomp? Trying to look at this with my glass half full. lol. Oh well...

@godt240 Matt I respectfully ask why the vials tested appear to be underdosed anywhere from 3.72iu to 8.7iu (-3.72iu, -6.60iu, -7.71iu, -8.76iu)

Another takeaway .... With the exception of a few outliers, executing a strict dosing protocol is pure fantasy with these chinese grade kits...

 

[Cpriest88]

Also ... given the nature of this hormone, it's manufacturing costs and level of sophistication needed to produce ... it's baffling why there is such a spread on how much hgh is inserted in each vial ... is this par for the course when packing this hormone ? Or is this the result of some haphazard procedure? It all makes me slightly paranoid on what other controls are being missed.

 

[Dr JIM]

Well, I see some say they have over 5mg of hgh in them. standard is supposed to be 3.3mg. one has just over 2.8mg. but what about quality? I'm sure with all this testing there must be a way to determine quality, right? I have no idea what I'm looking at here other than the mg aspect.

And I've answered that question on MULTIPLE OCCASIONS these are QUANTITATIVE ASSAYS primarily

And exclusive of an Trypsin cleavage LC/MS, the most reliable means of determining QUALITY is to obtain IGF VALUES and compare those results to PHARMA at identical dosages.

And of the 3-4 patients I'm following the difference IS CONSIDERABLE! (Yea I know that's a limited number of patients)

Maybe a generic manufacturer will post some of their LC/MS data NOT!

 

[Mr.B66]

And I've answered that question on MULTIPLE OCCASIONS these are QUANTITATIVE ASSAYS primarily

And exclusive of an Trypsin cleavage LC/MS, the most reliable means of determining QUALITY is to obtain IGF VALUES and compare those results to PHARMA at identical dosages.

And of the 3-4 patients I'm following the difference IS CONSIDERABLE! (Yea I know that's a limited number of patients)

Maybe a generic manufacturer will post some of their LC/MS data NOT!

Imagine how surprised i was to come here and see what the good Doctor had to say, only to be confused as the post i was quoted in wasnt me at all.but i was a bit concerned at first cause i had no recollection of posting this and thought i might be loosing my mind lol!!
The post was made by Xkawn.

 

[Dr JIM]

Well, I see some say they have over 5mg of hgh in them. standard is supposed to be 3.3mg. one has just over 2.8mg. but what about quality? I'm sure with all this testing there must be a way to determine quality, right? I have no idea what I'm looking at here other than the mg aspect.

Spend some time comparing the Amino Acid molar concentrations of each sample to that of the USP standard.

The Tech simplifies it already and highlights significant variances from the norm on EACH worksheet!

 

[XKawN]

Spend some time comparing the Amino Acid molar concentrations of each sample to that of the USP standard.

The Tech simplifies it already and highlights significant variances from the norm on EACH worksheet!

Thank you, Dr Jim. and thanks for your hard work. much appreciated.

 

[Dr JIM]

Thank you to Dr JIM and mands for all you two have done here , i and im sure everybody else , appreciate the incredible contribution you have made to the entire meso community , especially those of us interested in finding good quality affordable GH.
B

Yea I now know your reference to "quality" was used generically
rather than specifically.

I just believe it's important people understand the limits of this type of testing before some
UGL takes advantage of the opportunity as suggests their GH
is "equivalent to Pharma", using our assays as "proof"!

I appreciate the kind words fella

 

[XKawN]

Imagine how surprised i was to come here and see what the good Doctor had to say, only to be confused as the post i was quoted in wasnt me at all.but i was a bit concerned at first cause i had no recollection of posting this and thought i might be loosing my mind lol!!
The post was made by Xkawn.

Lmao. I was like "hey, Mr B asked the same question as me", lol.

 

[Just Fish]

Spend some time comparing the Amino Acid molar concentrations of each sample to that of the USP standard.

The Tech simplifies it already and highlights significant variances from the norm on EACH worksheet!

The USP standard is human serum albumin. How can it be used to compare amino acid concentrations to hgh? I am asking this question to learn not cause I think I know something.

 

[Just Fish]

Why don't they assay Cys and Trp?

 

[Dr JIM]

Thank you, Dr Jim. and thanks for your hard work. much appreciated.

Maybe this will help:

PRINT A COPY OF SAMPLE # 26
and the "Z" sample.

Now with both side by side compare the AA molar concentrations of EACH sample!

I believe it's remarkable although both are GT products and contain near equal amounts of GH on a proportional basis the
Amino Acid ratio is NOT "to pretty".

The latter implies the "Z" product is QUALITATIVELY of lower grade compared to sample # 26 (in addition to many others) and is the reason I've asked the lab to conduct an LC/MS on the Z sample.

Finally there are several samples that contain LOWER than expected quantities of GLX which raises the concern about whether the "sequence" is correct" in some of these samples.

So these assays can increase or decrease ones index of suspicion
with respect to a samples QUALITY but
can not be used to confirm or refute
issues of QUALITY.

Jim

 

[Just Fish]

Maybe this will help:

PRINT A COPY OF SAMPLE # 26
and the "Z" sample.

Now with both side by side compare the AA molar concentrations of EACH sample!

I believe it's remarkable although both are GT products and contain near equal amounts of GH on a proportional basis the
Amino Acid ratio is NOT "to pretty".

The latter implies the "Z" product is QUALITATIVELY of lower grade compared to sample # 26 (in addition to many others) and is the reason I've asked the lab to conduct an LC/MS on the Z sample.

Finally there are several samples that contain LOWER than expected quantities of GLX which raises the concern about whether the "sequence" is correct" in some of these samples.

So these assays can increase or decrease ones index of suspicion
with respect to a samples QUALITY but
can not be used to confirm or refute
issues of QUALITY.

Jim

A pharma sample would make this much easier. I appreciate @mands and your effort

 

[mands]

Sheet updated ... Link Here: Generic HGH Assays

@mands was there a vendor/source reported for Sample No. 28? Naps?

Yes sir I believe so.

mands

 

[sasquatchhunter]

Dr Jim,

I've got a few of the sample 00 of my own "grey tops" I am planning on getting blood work done ordered from my doctor. After lurking on these boards for quite awhile I understand my IGF and HGH levels are not an accurate predictor of what I am actually injecting. It could be other peptides. This brings me to my second point. If I donate a vial for testing here. You would post such results as you did from 00. I cannot interpet the results. What are your concerns. I am under the assumption it is not of the same quality as Pharma. However if I were using say 6IU of these grey generic would my body respond the same as 2IU pharm? Or is this just complete junk and god knows what forms of cancer are coming from this generic?

 

[sasquatchhunter]

Last but not least am I correct that the black tops are what are the best now or is it the grey based on the higher % of purity. What would you go with Black or Grey?