AI monotherapy

[Metribolone]

I'm doing this right now as a natural with 650 test.

Been taking 5mg aromasin every day for the past 3 months

Every day I feel shitty and have low sex drive my test defenitley has not had a noticeable increase

18 years old I'm trying to keep my growth plates open

Did you feel shitty and have a low sex drive previous to taking the aromasin? Your test levels are pretty healthy.

 

[Trenbologna]

I'm doing this right now as a natural with 650 test.

Been taking 5mg aromasin every day for the past 3 months

Every day I feel shitty and have low sex drive my test defenitley has not had a noticeable increase

18 years old I'm trying to keep my growth plates open

650 isn't horribly low but I understand wanting to keep the growth plates open. Have you been diagnosed with a growth disorder? Growth Hormone was the way to go to keep plates open. Did you have the symptoms you describe before starting the anastrozole or only after? What has anastrozole done to your LH & FSH levels?

 

[19nor]

650 isn't horribly low but I understand wanting to keep the growth plates open. Have you been diagnosed with a growth disorder? Growth Hormone was the way to go to keep plates open. Did you have the symptoms you describe before starting the anastrozole or only after? What has anastrozole done to your LH & FSH levels?

Sorry but I disagree, it's the estradiol that promotes metaphyseal fusion, it's not completely clear the process, but it seems that estradiol causes the chondro-blasts/-cytes to stop proliferating, leading to senescence and blocking new metaphyseal cartilage production, finally stopping longitudinal bone growth. GH-IGF1 promote indeed longitudinal bone growth.
Apart from this, I'm not suggesting nor promoting the use of Aromatase Inhibitors to try to promote bone growth, messing with hormones during puberty (that lasts far longer than what's thought) is tricky and should be done under strict medical surveillance

 

[Gmye]

I've never had high sex drive but the aromasin has made it lower for sure.

I haven't been diagnosed with a growth disorder but I'm pinning 5iu of hgh to try to grow my spine. Currently 5' 9.5"

Also I've been using exemestane not anastrozole I think that's what u meant tho.

I used tongkat Ali, fadogia agrestis, and d-aspartic acid, to try to raise my test but I couldn't tell a big difference. I started shooting ropes tho using these supps.

I've been doing this shit for like 90 days at this point and I gained 1/2" of height so far

 

[Metribolone]

I've never had high sex drive but the aromasin has made it lower for sure.

I haven't been diagnosed with a growth disorder but I'm pinning 5iu of hgh to try to grow my spine. Currently 5' 9.5"

Also I've been using exemestane not anastrozole I think that's what u meant tho.

I used tongkat Ali, fadogia agrestis, and d-aspartic acid, to try to raise my test but I couldn't tell a big difference. I started shooting ropes tho using these supps.

I've been doing this shit for like 90 days at this point and I gained 1/2" of height so far

Just be aware of the negative effects of gh as well

 

[lhokasschoder]

I have a new update. I ran the protocol for about 4 months and did not really notice any changes apart from my joints always popping lol. Since then I've recently been trying enclomiphine 12.5mg E2D. Here are my results (with very comparable lifestyle to when I was doing the aromasin protocol):
Total T: 1074.6 ng/dL
Estradiol: 47.4 pg/mL

 

[BigDadd7]

Just the 1/2" of growth so far?

 

[Trenbologna]

Sorry but I disagree, it's the estradiol that promotes metaphyseal fusion, it's not completely clear the process, but it seems that estradiol causes the chondro-blasts/-cytes to stop proliferating, leading to senescence and blocking new metaphyseal cartilage production, finally stopping longitudinal bone growth. GH-IGF1 promote indeed longitudinal bone growth.
Apart from this, I'm not suggesting nor promoting the use of Aromatase Inhibitors to try to promote bone growth, messing with hormones during puberty (that lasts far longer than what's thought) is tricky and should be done under strict medical surveillance

I missed this response apologies for late reply:

Also sorry but I will be disagreeing with your assessment as well.
Pediatric endocrinologists give puberty blockers in the form of aromatize inhibitors which do indeed inhibit estrogen production but often they also include growth hormone. Growth hormone given while growth plates are open can and does cause growth in height. The idea that this only works on children with a growth hormone deficiency is incorrect. I'm not sure how that belief got started but it's wrong. The response may be better in those with a deficiency but that's not what we are talking about here.

"Increases in growth and height induced by therapy and improved psychological adaptation​

Only one controlled trial has examined the behavior of short children who were not deficient in growth hormone but had been treated with it.15 Participants were 12 to 13 years old at the time of follow up. After 5 years of growth hormone treatment, 15 children (of 21 who had started) remained in the clinical trial. This group increased in relative height from 2.4 standard deviations below the mean at the start of the trial to 1.2 standard deviations below the mean at follow up. The average height of the 13 short children who had been randomly assigned to receive no treatment remained virtually the same (changing from 2.5 standard deviations below the mean at the start to 2.4 standard deviations at follow up).

That's significant brother especially to a person of short stature.

Topics in Review: Should short children who are not deficient in growth hormone be treated?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[19nor]

I missed this response apologies for late reply:

Also sorry but I will be disagreeing with your assessment as well.
Pediatric endocrinologists give puberty blockers in the form of aromatize inhibitors which do indeed inhibit estrogen production but often they also include growth hormone. Growth hormone given while growth plates are open can and does cause growth in height. The idea that this only works on children with a growth hormone deficiency is incorrect. I'm not sure how that belief got started but it's wrong. The response may be better in those with a deficiency but that's not what we are talking about here.

"Increases in growth and height induced by therapy and improved psychological adaptation​

Only one controlled trial has examined the behavior of short children who were not deficient in growth hormone but had been treated with it.15 Participants were 12 to 13 years old at the time of follow up. After 5 years of growth hormone treatment, 15 children (of 21 who had started) remained in the clinical trial. This group increased in relative height from 2.4 standard deviations below the mean at the start of the trial to 1.2 standard deviations below the mean at follow up. The average height of the 13 short children who had been randomly assigned to receive no treatment remained virtually the same (changing from 2.5 standard deviations below the mean at the start to 2.4 standard deviations at follow up).

That's significant brother especially to a person of short stature.

Topics in Review: Should short children who are not deficient in growth hormone be treated?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Don't worry mate, it's always interesting to discuss.

Surely you're right about the significance of gaining even not that much inches, I agree with you, considering social pressure nowadays in terms like these.
Surely GH-IGF1 promote bone elongation, but as far as metaphysis are "opened".
Estrogen, mainly estradiol, promote instead the metaphyseal fusion, blocking further linear bone growth.
An example of this is given by patients affected by aromatase deficiency, that keep on growing even after puberty, during adult life, and that show child-like metaphysis

 

[Trenbologna]

Don't worry mate, it's always interesting to discuss.

Surely you're right about the significance of gaining even not that much inches, I agree with you, considering social pressure nowadays in terms like these.
Surely GH-IGF1 promote bone elongation, but as far as metaphysis are "opened".
Estrogen, mainly estradiol, promote instead the metaphyseal fusion, blocking further linear bone growth.
An example of this is given by patients affected by aromatase deficiency, that keep on growing even after puberty, during adult life, and that show child-like

aromatase inhibitors don't help short children.

Don't worry mate, it's always interesting to discuss.

Surely you're right about the significance of gaining even not that much inches, I agree with you, considering social pressure nowadays in terms like these.
Surely GH-IGF1 promote bone elongation, but as far as metaphysis are "opened".
Estrogen, mainly estradiol, promote instead the metaphyseal fusion, blocking further linear bone growth.
An example of this is given by patients affected by aromatase deficiency, that keep on growing even after puberty, during adult life, and that show child-like metaphysis

One would think aromatase inhibitors would help kids with short stature. But by now surely we would know this if that were the case. Why wouldn't aromatase inhibitors, anti-estrogens or estrogen receptor antagonists keep kids growing by stunting metaphyseal fusion?

 

[User039825923]

One would think aromatase inhibitors would help kids with short stature. But by now surely we would know this if that were the case. Why wouldn't aromatase inhibitors, anti-estrogens or estrogen receptor antagonists keep kids growing by stunting metaphyseal fusion?

AIs only slow growth plate fusion by like 40%, if they could really stunt it, it would be a miracle and almost anyone could keep growing taller with AI + some GH to speed up the process

 

[Trenbologna]

Interesting I'm remembering that castrati singers back in the day were unusually tall and had long limbs due to the interruption of the hormones that causes the growth plate to close. So really there is a miracle cure to short stature...child castration!
Eh, I'm 6'4" but I'd still rather be a midget with a working cock than Yao Ming with a vagina and a pretty singing voice.

 

[Ghoul]

Interesting I'm remembering that castrati singers

Jeezus how old *are* you?

 

[Trenbologna]

Jeezus how old *are* you?

Shit who do you think did the snipping?
Democrats would have been proud. Smh.

 

[User039825923]

Interesting I'm remembering that castrati singers back in the day were unusually tall and had long limbs due to the interruption of the hormones that causes the growth plate to close. So really there is a miracle cure to short stature...child castration!
Eh, I'm 6'4" but I'd still rather be a midget with a working cock than Yao Ming with a vagina and a pretty singing voice.

so do you suffer from hypogonadism?

 

[Trenbologna]

so do you suffer from hypogonadism?

Yep. Been to many doctors. None of them know why but it might trace back to a huge cycle I did as a dumb kid when i was 19.
That's my only guess. Even with 200mg trt I can't get past 600 ng/dl. Amd the second I stop it begins to drop. It's as though my body is actively trying to suppress production.

 

[User039825923]

Yep. Been to many doctors. None of them know why but it might trace back to a huge cycle I did as a dumb kid when i was 19.
That's my only guess. Even with 200mg trt I can't get past 600 ng/dl. Amd the second I stop it begins to drop. It's as though my body is actively trying to suppress production.

But at 19 you are fully grown

 

[Trenbologna]

But at 19 you are fully grown

Hypogonadism meaning my boys down there have always struggled producing test. I've had low testosterone my entire life since getting tested at 19 (460 ng/dl). It's only gone down since. I'm 48 now and I'm at 170 ng/dl.
When I supplement trt 200mg/week it only brings me to between 400-600 ng/dl.
As i say it almost appears as though my body is actively suppressing any testosterone even when administered exogenously. I have all the side effects you would expect too. Even the really shitty ones if you're a man who enjoyed intercourse which I am lol. Sorry didn't mean to get into this but you asked and I have no shame sharing my experiences on Meso.
I meant maybe that absurd cycle did permanent damage. It was like 6 or 7 thousand mgs/week of various gear for like 14 weeks.

 

[Ghoul]

Hypogonadism meaning my boys down there have always struggled producing test. I've had low testosterone my entire life since getting tested at 19 (460 ng/dl). It's only gone down since. I'm 48 now and I'm at 170 ng/dl.
When I supplement trt 200mg/week it only brings me to between 400-600 ng/dl.
As i say it almost appears as though my body is actively suppressing any testosterone even when administered exogenously. I have all the side effects you would expect too. Even the really shitty ones if you're a man who enjoyed intercourse which I am lol. Sorry didn't mean to get into this but you asked and I have no shame sharing my experiences on Meso.
I meant maybe that absurd cycle did permanent damage. It was like 6 or 7 thousand mgs/week of various gear for like 14 weeks.

The thing is, guys who've been on TRT for years and presumably 100% shut down usually have much higher levels on that dose.

It's as if your testosterone metabolism is out of control. Whether it's becoming DHT or estradiol or one of the inactive metabolites really fast and why is the question I guess.

I know there's a rare genetic condition where not enough Test metabolism takes place, requiring exogenous DHT and Estrogen. Maybe there's a condition that causes the opposite and your Test gets burned up much faster than it should.

 

[Trenbologna]

The thing is, guys who've been on TRT for years and presumably 100% shut down usually have much higher levels on that dose.

It's as if your testosterone metabolism is out of control. Whether it's becoming DHT or estradiol or one of the inactive metabolites really fast and why is the question I guess.

I know there's a rare genetic condition where not enough Test metabolism takes place, requiring exogenous DHT and Estrogen. Maybe there's a condition that causes the opposite and your Test gets burned up much faster than it should.

Yeah if I remember correctly I think I calculated that I should have around 800-1000 test levels. I'm at half that 400-600. It was a massive blow because I was certain that trt would help me. Even at those higher levels some guys have a sweet spot well over that and I now believe that achieving supraphysiological levels of testosterone via exogenous administration is actually safe. I believe lots of guys can handle upwards of 1500 ng/dl. Because even at 1000 ng/dl I didn't feel much. Very slow response to training, very little cardio improvement despite really dedicating myself and hiking 10 miles/day for like 6 months and each time I hiked it was like I had never liked before. I was equally exhausted at the top of those final stairs at the end of my hiking trail. I always took the same trail because it was difficult and also I could rate my progress by how winded I was at marks in the trail.
Almost no strength increase. But when I did a cycle of say 500mg tren/500mg test I did see strength and size gains. But my test must have been over 2000 ng/dl.
Maybe I'm destined to buy my gear underground and self dose. Because no endo is gonna prescribe me 1000mg of test/week lol. I also wanted the cardio benefits. I noticed my a-fib is gone when I take heavier doses of test. Weird.
I'll look into that condition you mentioned. Thanks for the input brother.