Anyone else come to the realization that the drugs are literally 90% of the equation and it bums you out?

[eery]

Genetics are playing a big role. And this is from someone with F tier

But even with lots of drugs some people still look like shit which proves that training and diet are still a huge part of it.

this.

Theres lots of guys blasting grams upon grams and they keep upping the dose and see fuck all results so its definetly not as simple as OP puts it. You wont get far without enough food and enough training with enough effort.

Proper training, whatever that is for you, can make a HUGE difference vs training like a meathead,same goes for eating enough and sleeping enough.

I also think its extremely ignorant to say that training and diet play only 10%.


OP sounds like he's just a good responder to drugs.

At the end of the day, your genetics will dictate most of the results you get once you have the diet, training and drugs dialed in to a certain level.

 

[Country Club Hero]

Man I was just listening to someone say as they get older they come more and more to this realization and I can't remember who it was. Was it skip Hill? Damn I can't remember but the jist was that as long as the dose is high enough and diet is on point and you have decent genetics, any training will work to get you huge regardless of how optimized that training is

You can end the thread here. I’m one of these folks. If I eat halfway decent on good gears I’m gonna look impressive with shit training and whatever other variables you want to throw in. It’s genetics, drugs and how one responds to those drugs.

I could do body weight bullshit stuff on gear, eat just ok and be lean and jacked lol

One caveat though… I did build my base with heavy barbell shit years ago. But the muscle just remained on my frame with a shit diet and adequate hormones. That’s genetic response to hormones. So there’s that too.

 

[jtmarlin]

if you think drugs are 90% of the equation, then I know you've been majorly slacking on the other parts of the equation.

drugs matter, but they are just the icing.

This is where we disagree. Without the gear there is no cake. Its like Arnold saying that steroids were on par with a "good suntan".

The steroids were the difference between getting onstage at 235 and ripped and being able to do it in 3 months vs being 185.

 

[BigTomJ]

This is where we disagree. Without the gear there is no cake. Its like Arnold saying that steroids were on par with a "good suntan".

The steroids were the difference between getting onstage at 235 and ripped and being able to do it in 3 months vs being 185.

and yet it's the least important variable.
I'm not talking about drugs vs no drugs.

I'm talking about drug a vs drug b
or 500mg drug vs 1g drug

the drugs matter the absolute least.
the guys running 1500mg cycles, isnt going to be better than the guy running 1200mg cycles unless his diet, training, recovery, and genetics are also better.

there's guys on just trt that are better bodybuilders than I am, and there's bros at the gym slamming 2-3 grams that will never lift anywhere close to what I lift or look anywhere close to what I do.

 

[RockyP]

It depends what we’re talking about. Some guys are naturally incredibly strong but their muscle insertions are such that they’ll never look aesthetically pleasing. Same goes for guys with very thick skin, long femurs, whatever. Some guys are blessed with how they’re put together but maybe they can’t tolerate gear or don’t respond well to it. The bodybuilders whose names you know have jt all. Mostly born mesomorphs who are naturally strong, respond incredibly well to low dosages of gear (that go up over time), bounce back fast from brutal cycles, can gain and lose weight at will, etc. But none of it matters if you don’t put in the work. Flex wheeler was probably the best example of this. Some of the best genetics ever but his head was usually elsewhere and he trained like a pussy. Ronnie had it all, and that’s why he’s immortal. And he was the hardest working guy on stage too (despite his dieting on KC Masterpiece BBQ sauce).

Most of the guys looked better as naturals than a lot of guys will ever look on all the gear in the world. Drugs just let you push the envelope more on things you were already doing. More training volume. Harsher dieting. Better recovery. They’re important for sure but you need to have so much more going for you for it to be worth using them.

 

[shredded.lyfe]

Do you really think this matters? Training is the least important variable IMO. The drugs and the diet are way more important assuming your baseline is just training hard enough.

No amount of drugs and diet is going to overcome the systemic fatigue that "training hard enough" (see: training like a retard) accumulates.

The fact you're even saying this bullshit is pretty much a confession you have no idea what the fuck you're doing.

So go ahead, keep blasting away and eventually something will pop, whether its a tendon, ligament or organ you'll soon find out dipshit.

 

[pancetta]

Not at all. You can blast as much as you want, if your diet and training is shit you’ll just be fat and bloated. Yeah you will gain muscle to some extent and of course faster than natty but nowhere near as much as with proper diet and training

 

[accidentaljedi173]

For every bodybuilder or even elite athlete, the common denominator is a proper diet that fits your goals not a drug stack.

 

[Jankauskas]

It’s genetics and drugs

 

[BatmanVAR]

Drugs are a big part but genetics is the true decider. I've been training for 30 years, natty and not natty, and no matter what I do I always have shit biceps. My genetic shape/insertion and their response to stimulus sucks. I have long very flat biceps with no peak whatsoever. Hell it's the opposite of a peak - it's a god damn valley.

Similarly, my muscle insertions for triceps suck, my quad insertions are too high, and my calves are 3 inches smaller than my biceps despite them being a primary focus.

My physique has gotten better over the years and I'm one of the biggest guys in the gym, but I could never compete because my genetics suck ass.

I do have good genetics for strength so I probably should have just gone into powerlifting. I benched 300 in high school at a bodyweight of 180, 405 at age 20 at a bodyweight of 220, and a lifetime PR of 455 in my mid 30s. Currently at age 46 I can bench double my bodyweight (405 at 201 pounds).