Ask Michael Scally: Why Use Both Clomid and Nolvadex Together for PCT?

[ddp7]

extreme anxiety, paranoid, flashes of absolute rage - followed by absolute regret.. then the depression.... NAH BRO

THANK YOU BROTHER!

 

[ddp7]

I will be back later to discuss some of the points raised in the thread. As is typical for PCT discussion, there is not much data upon which to make informed decisions. Almost anyone can draw a conclusion for their own PCT by selectively picking and interpreting the literature. Unfortunately, when the direct clinical research is unavailable this is the only recourse. However, when it comes to PCT there is one thing that all AAS users can do. This is the one thing I hammer home - always obtain lab tests to ensure HPTA function. As I said initially, I will be back shortly to address other points.


A quick area for discussion. Do we really want to include studies on homosexuality as support for a theory? I mean, really! Do you think these studies have validity? If anything, ask yourself if there is a bright defining line between homo/hetero as discussed in the paper OR is there a spectrum (gray areas)? Without even reading the paper (Does anyone have the original paper?), I believe there is NO clear bright line, but a spectrum which diminishes the argument that estrogen priming is only seen in females. [Note: I do not argue for the use of clomiphene due to an E2 priming effect.]


Dorner G, Docke F, Gotz F, Rohde W, Stahl F, Tonjes R. Sexual differentiation of gonadotrophin secretion, sexual orientation and gender role behavior. J Steroid Biochem 1987;27(4-6):1081-7.

The positive estrogen feedback was found to be a relatively sex-specific reaction of the hypothalamo-hypophyseal system in rats as well as in human beings. It is dependent--most of all--on the estrogen convertible androgen level during sexual brain differentiation, but also on an estrogen priming effect in adulthood. The lower the estrogen convertible androgen or primary estrogen level during brain differentiation, the higher is the evocability of a positive estrogen action on LH secretion in later life.

In clinical studies, we were able to induce a positive estrogen feedback on LH secretion in most intact homosexual men in clear-cut contrast to intact hetero- or bisexual men. These findings were strongly confirmed by Gladue and associates. In addition, the evocability of a positive estrogen feedback was also demonstrable in most homosexual male-to-female transsexuals in significant contrast to hetero- or bisexual male-to-female transsexuals. These findings suggest that homosexual males possess, at least in part, a predominantly female-differentiated brain, which may be caused by a low estrogen convertible androgen level during brain organization.

Recently, the following relations were found between sex hormone levels during brain differentiation and sex-specific responses in adulthood: (1) estrogens--which are mostly converted, however, from androgens--are responsible for the sex-specific organization of gonadotrophin secretion and hence the evocability of a positive estrogen feedback in later life; (2) estrogens and androgens, occurring during brain differentiation, predetermine synergistically sexual orientation and (3) androgens--without conversion to estrogens--are responsible for the sex-specific organization of gender role behaviour in later life.

Furthermore, the organization periods for sex-specific gonadotrophin secretion, sexual orientation and gender role behaviour are not identical but overlapping. Thus, combinations as well as dissociations between deviations of the neuroendocrine organization of sex-specific gonadotrophin secretion, sexual orientation and gender role behaviour are conceivable. Most recently, female-type sexual orientation could be converted to male-type sexual orientation in adult rats by administration of the dopamine agonist and serotonin antagonist lisuride.

Well Dr Scally maybe this shit must be in your papers very interesting
asides the popular reductionism like this boy is effiminate or cocksucker u know that shit
Ayurveda thinking explain like a bottom line that the body dont lie

""Thus, issues such as homosexuality and lesbianism were also viewed more or less, with a rational and medical approach in ancient India. Sushruta Samhita ( Sharirasthana – II.38-44) notes of various types of men who cannot get aroused by conventional methods and thus through more homosexual ones, including the kumbhika or one who can become aroused only through anal penetration and the asekya , who can only obtain an erection when performing oral sex on other males. According to Sushruta , this condition is due to the lack of semen from the father at the time of birth. The sandhika is yet another type that is more passive in heterosexual forms of sex and in addition has feminine features and qualities""

Source:
The Ayurvedic View of Sex

 

[master.on]

Based on research like this, I wouldn't go any higher than 20mg/day of Nolva. It's common for people to run 40mg/day for the first week or two, but I think that doses that high probably only increase the incidence and severity of side effects with little to no additional recovery benefit. I personally run either 10 or 20mg per day, starting after the last injection (if not used on cycle), and continued for 6-8 weeks AFTER the injected compound would be expected to have cleared from the body. So in the case of test cyp, for example, I'd start the nolva after the last shot. I'd run it for the two weeks or so you'd expect it to take for test to drop below suppressive levels, and then, as part of the true recovery phase, I'd run it for an additional 8 weeks. So my doses are lower than typical and I run it for longer than typical.
Right, I use nolva only. I think you could also include an AI, which might further improve recovery of the HPTA, but I personally don't think it does much good to drive estrogen even lower than it already is during PCT (i.e. from "low" to "into the ground"). You want some estrogen for its beneficial effects, particularly on your libido and on your lipid profile (that's likely been compromised by the AAS cycle). Estrogen levels will be higher without an AI, but the SERM should block most of what's there at the HPTA.
I think hCG is more important for recovery than a SERM is. I take hCG throughout every cycle to prevent testicular atrophy and dysfunction from occurring in the first place. That's the primary impediment to recovery, so if you can prevent it with use of hCG while on cycle, you've taken your largest step towards recovery. I usually run hCG throughout a cycle at 250-350 IU per shot with 2 shots per week. I run it after the last shot until the esterfied steroid would be expected to have cleared. So again, in the case of test cyp, I'd run the hCG for an additional 2 weeks after the last shot, since you're essentially still on cycle and suppressed during that time.

Nice

If you're still here,
what's your opinion from tapering down Nolva dose from 20 mg?
Something like 20/15/10/5 (reducing 5 mg every week)

 

[Skull]

Nice

If you're still here,
what's your opinion from tapering down Nolva dose from 20 mg?
Something like 20/15/10/5 (reducing 5 mg every week)

The last this me this dude was seen was back in 2013...I strongly believe you won't be getting the response that your seeking from this former member lol

 

[ddp7]

is ok take nolva n clomid EOD?

Im thinking in a one month or something 40mg nolva 20mg clomid eod like i said

In another line,is ok running HCG after the above stack?Im thinking in 250ui ED for a month w/10-20 mg nolva or is that an hcg waste??

Feeling that my sexual powder is backing,shit one day of nolva/clomid n feel incredible mental clarity superb,easy comunnication w/chiks more authority yeah yeah feeling like a optimized version of me,n about dieting breakfast not always will be in keto style some days i will eat porridge alone bc i like porridge,i need carbs u know,im not a paleo wanna be u know,
thanks in advance

 

[BirdieNumNum]

I'm sure long term clomid use has damaged my eyesight slightly. It's as if I woke up one day and they never worked so good. Real talk

 

[ddp7]

i havent eyes troubles in clomid man

 

[BirdieNumNum]

I done it for a year more or less non stop.