At what testosterone doses can you go without aromatase inhibitors?

[G0ld]

There are people who use 250-300 mg testosterone a week, and don't use aromatase inhibitors, and don't get gynecomastia and very high estrogen and estradiol.

I thought that any dose above a dose that corresponds to a normal and natural testosterone level (example: 100-150 mg a week ; 600-1000 ng/dL) will cause abnormally high estrogen.

But it seems a high dose, such as 200-300 mg a week, can be used without aromatase inhibitors, and this won't cause an estrogen level that is high enough for gynecomastia and serious health issues to occur.

According to what I have read, I can safely use 300 mg a week without aromatase inhibitors, but any dose above 300 mg should be combined with aromatize inhibitors or tamoxifen or both.

Can you tell me if that's true?

What doses have you used without aromatase inhibitors, and didn't get gynecomastia and significantly elevated estrogen levels?

Are AIs needed for a 200 mg dose a week?

 

[trtbuilder]

Dude, are you ever going to inject yourself? Do you need your mommy to wipe your ass before she injects you?

Inject yourself, wait a month, get blood work and if your Estradiol is out of whack or your little nipply wipplys start getting sensitive consider an AI. Otherwise you're fine.

 

[Fattyone]

I can run a gram with no AI.

Some need it at 250.

You’re not gonna believe this, and I hope you’re seated because this is ground shattering shit.



You ready…




Deep breath…






We are all unique human beings and some can do things/tolerate things/don’t need things others do.

It’s very unlikely you’ll need one at 300mg/wk. very unlikely. BUT. There are ZERO absolutes when it comes to this stuff.

 

[jJjburton]

There are people who use 250-300 mg testosterone a week, and don't use aromatase inhibitors, and don't get gynecomastia and very high estrogen and estradiol.

I thought that any dose above a dose that corresponds to a normal and natural testosterone level (example: 100-150 mg a week ; 600-1000 ng/dL) will cause abnormally high estrogen.

But it seems a high dose, such as 200-300 mg a week, can be used without aromatase inhibitors, and this won't cause an estrogen level that is high enough for gynecomastia and serious health issues to occur.

According to what I have read, I can safely use 300 mg a week without aromatase inhibitors, but any dose above 300 mg should be combined with aromatize inhibitors or tamoxifen or both.

Can you tell me if that's true?

What doses have you used without aromatase inhibitors, and didn't get gynecomastia and significantly elevated estrogen levels?

Are AIs needed for a 200 mg dose a week?

If you pin 200 mg, 1x a week the peak will be higher…thus a possible more estrogen conversion.

If you pin eod or ed you can get a less estrogen conversion from the lower peaks….

This is another way to mitigate that..

You are asking some questions that are very independent of the user…

You will have to end up getting bloodwork to find out yourself. That said….the only thing i care about is gyno in term of estrogen, so that is my indicator.

 

[G0ld]

Dude, are you ever going to inject yourself? Do you need your mommy to wipe your ass before she injects you?

Inject yourself, wait a month, get blood work and if your Estradiol is out of whack or your little nipply wipplys start getting sensitive consider an AI. Otherwise you're fine.

Yes, I will actually inject myself. I will make my steroid order in a few days.

Anyway, I'm curious what non-TRT doses don't require AIs.

 

[G0ld]

I can run a gram with no AI.

Some need it at 250.

You’re not gonna believe this, and I hope you’re seated because this is ground shattering shit.



You ready…




Deep breath…






We are all unique human beings and some can do things/tolerate things/don’t need things others do.

It’s very unlikely you’ll need one at 300mg/wk. very unlikely. BUT. There are ZERO absolutes when it comes to this stuff.

I will be starting with a 100-125 mg a week dose to see how the body reacts. I will be increasing the dose slowly if everything is ok.

 

[G0ld]

If you pin 200 mg, 1x a week the peak will be higher…thus a possible more estrogen conversion.

If you pin eod or ed you can get a less estrogen conversion from the lower peaks….

This is another way to mitigate that..

You are asking some questions that are very independent of the user…

You will have to end up getting bloodwork to find out yourself. That said….the only thing i care about is gyno in term of estrogen, so that is my indicator.

Yeah, I'm afraid of gyno, too.

I will order an aromatase inhibitors and tamoxifen, but I don't plant to use them before I get symptoms of high estrogen. I'm afraid that if I don't have high estrogen symptoms and the estrogen level is normal, using aromatase inhibitors will crash my estrogen level. Low estrogen is worse than high estrogen.

It's better, I think, to start with a low dose and then slowly adding more milligrams after each blood test.

 

[JC Grifter]

Yes, I will actually inject myself. I will make my steroid order in a few days.

Anyway, I'm curious what non-TRT doses don't require AIs.

No one can answer this for you. There’s no set dose that all of a sudden everyone needs an AI. You can keep asking, but you’re gonna keep getting the same answer. Everybody responds differently to how they metabolize testosterone or how much testosterone you convert to estrogen.

 

[DECLAN]

Who fucking cares what everyone else threshold before taking Ai if yours would be different. Prime example of overthinking.

Inject your preferred dose let it saturate for 3-5 weeks then get blood work, if sides show up earlier lower dose and get blood work done. That would give you certainty on when you need an Ai.

If you are trying to save money by basing your ai intake by asking the forum on what everyone else’s test dose limit is, then it will end up a guessing game.

 

[Fattyone]

I will be starting with a 100-125 mg a week dose to see how the body reacts. I will be increasing the dose slowly if everything is ok.

Great idea on the titrating.
Super excited for all your new threads when you’re constantly going though hormonal fluctuations because you’re constantly changing things.


Why is it the ones who are the most scared do this shit?

 

[G0ld]

Great idea on the titrating.
Super excited for all your new threads when you’re constantly going though hormonal fluctuations because you’re constantly changing things.


Why is it the ones who are the most scared do this shit?

If my approach is not correct, then what should I do? How to do it correctly, if not by titrating?

And why would I get hormonal fluctuations? Injecting testosterone enanthate 2 times a week will keep the levels stable. And increasing the dose shouldn't lead to fluctuation.

If I start with a 100 mg dose, why would I get fluctuations if I increase the dose to 150 after 4 weeks when testosterone saturation is achieved? Won't just the level of testosterone start increasing without fluctuations?

 

[G0ld]

Who fucking cares what everyone else threshold before taking Ai if yours would be different. Prime example of overthinking.

Inject your preferred dose let it saturate for 3-5 weeks then get blood work, if sides show up earlier lower dose and get blood work done. That would give you certainty on when you need an Ai.

If you are trying to save money by basing your ai intake by asking the forum on what everyone else’s test dose limit is, then it will end up a guessing game.

Okay.
No, I'm not trying to save money. I'm extremely paranoid about specific side effects, and that's why I'm asking and overthinking so much. But yeah, I will eventually inject.

 

[koslawikov]

I did in my past 1,700 mgs a week without an AI. I gained water and all that, but blood pressure was with a lot of cardio ok and I never had gyno issues. Seems I am a bit lucky with the estrogen.

 

[Type-IIx]

This is highly individual, and your crowdsourcing info like this will merely leave you with random datapoints. You'll see a normal distribution with enough of them. But nothing useful for yourself. It depends on factors that include body fat levels & genetic-heritable ones. Personally, 375 mg q.w. testosterone enanthate gives me tolerable levels such that an AI is not needed, but 500 mg q.w. is too much.

 

[Fattyone]

increasing the dose shouldn't lead to fluctuation.

If I start with a 100 mg dose, why would I get fluctuations if I increase the dose to 150 after 4 weeks when testosterone saturation is achieved? Won't just the level of testosterone start increasing without fluctuations

You answered your own questions.

The fluctuations aren’t bad. They don’t bother me as I know what to expect. As a newb you don’t, and seeing your personality you seem like you’d handle it absolutely terribly.

The benifit of sticking to one dose as a newb is:

Only dealing with (essentially) two hormonal roller coasters, one on the way up (starting) and one on the way down (ending).

You’ll get a better “feel” for how you feel on it and with consistency comes comfort and ease.

You don’t know what sides feel like because you’ve never experienced them. You don’t know the difference between just needing to ride out the changes you’ve made and “somethings off”. You’ll more than likely end up throwing drugs and things needlessly and in turn, making things worse.


You’re already majoring in the minors when you haven’t finished 4th grade. Now you’re signing yourself up for calculus because you feel like you’re ready after learning how to tie your shoes.

 

[G0ld]

This is highly individual, and your crowdsourcing info like this will merely leave you with random datapoints. You'll see a normal distribution with enough of them. But nothing useful for yourself. It depends on factors that include body fat levels & genetic-heritable ones. Personally, 375 mg q.w. testosterone enanthate gives me tolerable levels such that an AI is not needed, but 500 mg q.w. is too much.

Yes, it's individual. But aren't there typical doses recorded in studies? On average, there should be a dose the majority of men can use and don't need AIs.

You answered your own questions.

The fluctuations aren’t bad. They don’t bother me as I know what to expect. As a newb you don’t, and seeing your personality you seem like you’d handle it absolutely terribly.

The benifit of sticking to one dose as a newb is:

Only dealing with (essentially) two hormonal roller coasters, one on the way up (starting) and one on the way down (ending).

You’ll get a better “feel” for how you feel on it and with consistency comes comfort and ease.

You don’t know what sides feel like because you’ve never experienced them. You don’t know the difference between just needing to ride out the changes you’ve made and “somethings off”. You’ll more than likely end up throwing drugs and things needlessly and in turn, making things worse.


You’re already majoring in the minors when you haven’t finished 4th grade. Now you’re signing yourself up for calculus because you feel like you’re ready after learning how to tie your shoes.

If you are talking about mood swings, I don't worry about them at all. I have good self-control and can handle mood swings.

"Only dealing with (essentially) two hormonal roller coasters, one on the way up (starting) and one on the way down (ending)."

What do you mean by "on the way down"? When saturation is achieved, don't testosterone levels stabilize (not increasing nor decreasing) and stay stable?

EDIT: Yeah, I got what you mean. No, I'm not planning an end to the testosterone supplementation. I'm planning to start a TRT dosage, then increase the dose to a cycle-level. When I finish my cycle, I'm not planning to do any PCT. Instead, I would like to remain on TRT.

So, when I do cycle, I use cycle doses, and when I'm off-cycle, I will be using TRT dose.

And I will start using cycle doses only if upper level (super physiological) testosterone levels aren't enough and I think I need more. But being on 150-200 mg T, which is a TRT dose or a very low cycle dose, is something I want to continue indefinitely.

The way I vision it is that once I will start the supplementation, the testosterone level will start increasing, then it will stop increasing when saturation is achieved, and will stay stable and static as long as I don't change the dose.

 

[BoloYang2023]

@G0ld Please go get a doctor and so a endocrinologist so that you can have someone with a degree tell you then you dont have to keep asking us... No one wants to be an asshole to you bro but it seems like you don't take anyone advice and you have all kinds of worries but to be honest dude its risk vs reward. so roll the dice homie

 

[Avarice911]

You’re the same guy that’s said he’s researched this for two years and this is all you can muster?

 

[Fattyone]

If you are talking about mood swings, I don't worry about them at all. I have good self-control and can handle mood swings.

That’s one of them.. but not the ones I’m talking about.

What do you mean by "on the way down"? When saturation is achieved, don't testosterone levels stabilize (not increasing nor decreasing) and stay stable?

EDIT: Yeah, I got what you mean. No, I'm not planning an end to the testosterone supplementation. I'm planning to start a TRT dosage, then increase the dose to a cycle-level. When I finish my cycle, I'm not planning to do any PCT. Instead, I would like to remain on TRT.

So, when I do cycle, I use cycle doses, and when I'm off-cycle, I will be using TRT dose.

There’s a start aka raising and an end aka lowering in here somewhere. I just know it!!

 

[Nilatac]

What does it matter? For me I never used a ai and was taking grams of test. You will be different than me maybe

How much alcohol can you drink before you get drunk? What does it matter? For some is one beer for others is a bottle of whiskey.

What changes for you that you know how much other person can take until sides start to show?