Banning immigrants from "certain" countries

Come on - cut it out guys - you've thoroughly f-d up this thread with your pointless quibbling and insults.

Thread owners should have the ability to delete or hide posts like yours.

@Millard Baker
This is an uncensored forum tough luck homesicle!!!!you don't own anything here
You just proved my point to everyone though. How intolerant you are and how you want to silence people with your authority if you had the tools to do so. And you want me to take you seriusly when you try to make an political argument from a proven autocrat with your own statements. Trump rallied idiots like you next to the blue collar America that what my problem is !!!! I though you hade some decency in you But I must be an idiot
 
This is an uncensored forum tough luck homesicle!!!!you don't own anything here
You just proved my point to everyone though. How intolerant you are and how you want to silence people with your authority if you had the tools to do so. And you want me to take you seriusly when you try to make an political argument from a proven autocrat with your own statements. Trump rallied idiots like you next to the blue collar America that what my problem is !!!! I though you hade some decency in you But I must be an idiot

element_of_truth_bw_by_dvd_lesher-d3g3sxu.jpg

Come on - cut it out guys - you've thoroughly f-d up this thread with your pointless quibbling and insults.

Thread owners should have the ability to delete or hide posts like yours.

@Millard Baker

 
Again, what is the percentage of people that have done those terrible things???

Your point has nothing to do with my statement. Whether the percentage of Muslims who self-detonate is 0% or 100%, it still doesn't change the fact that the Quran commands them to slay the infidel.

There are how many millions of muslums?? Your seriously going to say they are all the same?

Where did I say they are all the same?

Regardless, every civilization that has ever had the misfortune of encountering Islam has found themselves at war with it. This has been happening since Muhammed was molesting a 9 year old girl he called his wife (which happens to be why Islam still permits child marriage today, btw). Everywhere Islam has spread, bloodshed has followed. The reason, of course, is because Islam commands Muslims to spread the faith by the sword.

Enough with the scare tactics.

Facts are scare tactics now? Got it.
 
I get it @CensoredBoardsSuck . You think muslims are terrible scary people. You make generalities about an entire religion from the acts of a very few extremists.

You say they cant be trusted because of what they are taught in the koran? Have you read it? Have you read the bible?

Dominion over woman, slaves, beating of women, killing in the name of god are all acceptable in the bible. Muslims could make the same generalities about us. Would they be correct making the same assumptions about us?

Using your same logic they would. How many innocent people have been killed in the name of christianity?

Does that makes us all killers, rapists, and conquers?
 
We've had an ugly past in regards to this issue. I will refrain from doing that again and will respectfully engage you on a couple things:



I agree with you that no woman or hold should be beaten or subjugated no matter the religion. I also agree it does happen in the Muslim religion. There's no excuse for it. For example, Pakistan, at the behest of their Islamic Council, passed a law to my knowledge that allows men to "lightly" beat their wives. Yes it says lightly. There's no excuse for these kinds of laws and it is an issue that needs to be dealt with.

Having said all that, I would like your thoughts on some other women's rights issues around the globe that are not just Muslim issues:

1) what do you think about the Indian Penal Code 375 which states "sexual intercourse between a man and his wife cannot be rape provided the wife is over 15yo"? Or in the Bahamas a man can sexually assault his wife if she is over 14yo? In Singapore, a man can sexually assault his wife provided she is over just 13 years of age?

2) you know I'm Lebanese, and it's roughly half and half Christian and Muslim, so I'll use them as an example too. In Lebanon a man cannot be charged for kidnapping, rape, or statutory rape if he plans on marrying the victim after. In Malta, a man can get a reduced sentence for kidnapping a woman if he plans on marrying her and the charges will be dropped completely if he in fact does marry her.

3) in Nigeria, a man can legally beat his wife and cannot be charged unless there is a "grievous" injury.

4) not as bad as other countries obviously but in Israel a man has the final word on divorce. A husband and wife in a Jewish marriage must both give consent to get the divorce and either can start the proceedings but if a woman doesn't grant the husband the divorce it can still be passed if the husband gets 100 rabbis to say ok. A wife meanwhile is stuck until the husband gives his ok. There is no law that can make the man give his consent. The husband can blackmail the wife for giving his consent. For example, the husband can give his consent if the woman agrees to forfeit child support payments, or forfeit the house, etc. And if a married woman, married bc the husband refuses to consent to the divorce at all costs, has children with another man, those children are deemed bastards and unable to marry in Israel forever. Obviously this law is not as bad as beating your wife or being allowed to rape her but just an example to show that even modernized countries can subjugate women and children.



The following graphic will show that this does indeed happen in certain predominantly Muslim countries, it is not solely a Muslim issue

View attachment 59894



While arguably not as bad as killin people over religious beliefs, look at what Duterte is doing in the Phillipines. Executing drug addicts and dealers without any sort of due process, police planting evidence, murdering people who surrender, etc. Duterte even claimed something along the lines of wanting to kill drugs criminals like Hitler killed Jewish people. He's admitted to murdering people in cold blood among many other vicious acts.

Of course I condemn all those things. I don't think we're all that far apart, really - perhaps only differing on the perniciousness of religion in general.

I don't hate Muslims. I mostly feel sorry for them, especially the women. IMO, the emancipation of women in the Islamic world, and in particular the Arab world, will lead to a much needed reformation that will strip the power from the mullahs and lead to a far better quality of life than what they have now. I'm sure you agree with that. Unfortunately it still seems a long way away.
 
I get it @CensoredBoardsSuck . You think muslims are terrible scary people. You make generalities about an entire religion from the acts of a very few extremists.

You're putting words in my mouth. I provided an explanation - based on the teachings of their religion - for the "acts of a very few extremists."

You say they cant be trusted because of what they are taught in the koran? Have you read it? Have you read the bible?

I have read it. I've also read the sunnahs and hadiths, as well as Islamic jurisprudence. Obviously you haven't yet you still feel qualified to lecture us on Islam and draw moral equivalencies with Christianity. I expect your lecture on the Crusades is coming next.

Dominion over woman, slaves, beating of women, killing in the name of god are all acceptable in the bible. Muslims could make the same generalities about us. Would they be correct making the same assumptions about us?

There is lots of killing in the Bible. No one will dispute that. But there is a big difference: the violent passages in the Bible are descriptive; the violent passages in the Quran are prescriptive. You're welcome to try and find an example of prescriptive violence in the Bible. I won't hold my breath though.

Using your same logic they would. How many innocent people have been killed in the name of christianity?

Being killed in the name of Christianity is not the same as being killed because Christianity commands it. Unless you're an Amalekite, you have nothing to fear.

Does that makes us all killers, rapists, and conquers?

Homo sapiens are a violent species. No argument there. Committing violence when you believe God approves removes all restraint.
 
Of course I condemn all those things. I don't think we're all that far apart, really - perhaps only differing on the perniciousness of religion in general.

I don't hate Muslims. I mostly feel sorry for them, especially the women. IMO, the emancipation of women in the Islamic world, and in particular the Arab world, will lead to a much needed reformation that will strip the power from the mullahs and lead to a far better quality of life than what they have now. I'm sure you agree with that. Unfortunately it still seems a long way away.

Yes, I do very much agree with that.
 
You're putting words in my mouth. I provided an explanation - based on the teachings of their religion - for the "acts of a very few extremists."

I have read it. I've also read the sunnahs and hadiths, as well as Islamic jurisprudence. Obviously you haven't yet you still feel qualified to lecture us on Islam and draw moral equivalencies with Christianity. I expect your lecture on the Crusades is coming next.

There is lots of killing in the Bible. No one will dispute that. But there is a big difference: the violent passages in the Bible are descriptive; the violent passages in the Quran are prescriptive. You're welcome to try and find an example of prescriptive violence in the Bible. I won't hold my breath though.

Being killed in the name of Christianity is not the same as being killed because Christianity commands it. Unless you're an Amalekite, you have nothing to fear.

Homo sapiens are a violent species. No argument there. Committing violence when you believe God approves removes all restraint.

I'd add that the violent portions are all in the Old Testament - i.e. the Jewish heritage - which, for nearly all intents and purposes do not guide Christians in their day-to-day physical actions particularly much. Seems more to be more of a background and historical reference exercise to me. (highly selective too - more below)

If you actually attend a church, which I do once or twice a year (the wife is really into that stuff, I'm an agnostic but unlike the atheists I don't fear I'll melt if I set foot in a church...) I find that the time spent in sermons is biased toward New Testament content - with tie-backs to (select portions) OT of course - after all, it isn't called CHRISTianity for no reason.

I've never heard any preacher go on about the (Jewish) laws and dictates found in OT portions like Ezekiel, Deuteronomy, Leviticus etc - the Jewish Torah content with references to stoning and sword stuff (probably where Muhammad got much of his violent content, except he took it to the next level and then some) - so for the Christianophobes to hang their hate and arguments on all that legacy OT content is ridiculous.

Maybe Christians should have another of their Bible rewrite councils and dump that stuff, I don't see why they retain it. Some Christians think so too, take a look at John Calvin and his thoughts on how some portions of OT were invalidated by Christ's sacrifice. I digress.

And as you say, it's descriptive, to me it's a bunch of Jewish story-telling, certainly not in the least prescriptive these days. I find that to be the redeeming quality (if you will) about Christianity, what has enabled it to move away from the tyrannic theocracy era hundreds of years ago, to becoming a civilized and calm religion these days.

Still waiting for Islam to get to that level of maturity - but with their prescriptive & infallible & indisputable dogma, I doubt it will ever happen.

(to the Christianophobes - I'm not a believer in the least, but I enjoy history and learning what makes cultures tick, you should try it)
 
Seattle judge grants nationwide temporary restraining order on Trump immigration ban - Reuters
Seattle judge grants nationwide temporary restraining order on Trump immigration ban

This county Has a constitution. And no one is above the constitution not even the president. We are not a Christian nation!!! We are a free nation..... free to exercise any religion protected by the constitution!!!! Wake up!!! It's the 21. Century
 
Seattle judge grants nationwide temporary restraining order on Trump immigration ban - Reuters
Seattle judge grants nationwide temporary restraining order on Trump immigration ban

This county Has a constitution. And no one is above the constitution not even the president. We are not a Christian nation!!! We are a free nation..... free to exercise any religion protected by the constitution!!!! Wake up!!! It's the 21. Century

Where were you when Obama barred Iraqis for 6 months? And created the watch list of countries?

Here's from an ABC News piece from Nov. 20, 2013 - well before Trump was even on the radar:

"As a result of the Kentucky case, the State Department stopped processing Iraq refugees for six months in 2011, federal officials told ABC News – even for many who had heroically helped U.S. forces as interpreters and intelligence assets. One Iraqi who had aided American troops was assassinated before his refugee application could be processed, because of the immigration delays, two U.S. officials said. In 2011, fewer than 10,000 Iraqis were resettled as refugees in the U.S., half the number from the year before, State Department statistics show."

(above from Exclusive: 'Dozens' of Terrorists May Be in US as Refugees )

"In issuing his ban on immigrants from seven predominantly Muslim countries, President Trump relied on a 65-year-old provision of the federal Immigration and Nationality Act. The provision gives presidents broad authority to ban individual immigrants or groups of immigrants. Presidents haven’t hesitated to use it.
Barack Obama invoked it 19 times, Bill Clinton 12 times, George W. Bush six times and Ronald Reagan five times. George H.W. Bush invoked it once."

(above from LA Times Other presidents have blocked groups of foreigners from the U.S., but never so broadly )

As you can see, although Trump pulled this off in a really clumsy way - it's not unprecedented - and it's not certainly not un-Constitutional.

Anyone claiming otherwise would be either a hypocrite or a liar or simply stupid.

PS
Why are you arguing that the US Constitution requires open door immigration?
 
Read the judges argument for stoping the eo. He is a federal judge who knows a thing or two about constitution. At anytime if Obama didn't uphold the constitution, judges would have interfered. No judge has done this at his presidency. I just want a real explanation why every time I point out something Trump administration does illegal, it's deflected and finger pointed at Obama? Stand for your candidate on the ground of legality and what he stands for!! Not jut " but he did it too" rhetoric.
Do you believe in checks and balances in this country? If so due process will let you know who was right.
 
Read the judges argument for stoping the eo. He is a federal judge who knows a thing or two about constitution. At anytime if Obama didn't uphold the constitution, judges would have interfered. No judge has done this at his presidency. I just want a real explanation why every time I point out something Trump administration does illegal, it's deflected and finger pointed at Obama? Stand for your candidate on the ground of legality and what he stands for!! Not jut " but he did it too" rhetoric.
Do you believe in checks and balances in this country? If so due process will let you know who was right.
So if a higher court deems it constitutional does that let us know it's right?
 
So if a higher court deems it constitutional does that let us know it's right?
Absolutely
If whitehouse gets its way it will go to federal appeals court an so on
Due process !!!!
This is why I love this country!!!!
It may go against my wishes but it makes me feel validated for my concerns and the due process works !!!
You can't run a county on executive orders there is a congress for that. Steve Bannon's influence is the reason for these mistakes. I believe Mr Trump is learning how coooco his adviser is :)
 
Absolutely
If whitehouse gets its way it will go to federal appeals court an so on
Due process !!!!
This is why I love this country!!!!
It may go against my wishes but it makes me feel validated for my concerns and the due process works !!!
You can't run a county on executive orders there is a congress for that. Steve Bannon's influence is the reason for these mistakes. I believe Mr Trump is learning how coooco his adviser is :)
I agree, but after Obama and his "I don't need congress" I'm not gonna lie... I'm appreciating trump giving it right back to the left the same way. I would rather both sides play by the rules, though.
 
Read the judges argument for stoping the eo. He is a federal judge who knows a thing or two about constitution. At anytime if Obama didn't uphold the constitution, judges would have interfered. No judge has done this at his presidency. I just want a real explanation why every time I point out something Trump administration does illegal, it's deflected and finger pointed at Obama? Stand for your candidate on the ground of legality and what he stands for!! Not jut " but he did it too" rhetoric.
Do you believe in some checks and balances in this country? If so due process will let you know who was right.

Would be nice with some checks and balances and due process for a change - there was next to none of that in Congress or by media during Obama's days.

If you think Obama didn't get his fingers smacked repeatedly by the courts over his overreaches, well, I don't know what cave you have lived in over the past 8 years.
 
Would be nice with some checks and balances and due process for a change - there was next to none of that in Congress or by media during Obama's days.

If you think Obama didn't get his fingers smacked repeatedly by the courts over his overreaches, well, I don't know what cave you have lived in over the past 8 years.
So why the outrage about the federal judge who stoped the eo than??
 
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