Benzyl benzoate vs ethyl oleate on inflammation markers in the blood

[Spaceman Spiff]

Yea, there's only a handful of people on here that could possibly understand or have the discipline to know their own bodies' reactions to compounds with which they've done slow trial and error. They also wouldn't know their diet, training, rest, etc. well enough to factor those into any analyses. Crazy shit, right? Funny how it's the same elite group riding on EO's dick are same ones that have this esoteric knowledge and ability. So much arrogance on this board, and Spaceman/Crido lead the pack. Always have. I love how he whined about BBBG being a bully as one of his alt's over on PM, and from what I've seen, he's the biggest one around. This thread is collecting them quite well, and it has become a convenient place from which to add to my ignore list. Byeeee. Cue Sampei, the hyena.

What? I have never been anti EO or used it? Just having a discussion.

Overall I only use BB and BA. Zero care for anything else.

 

[Sampei]

Yeah I think you're on to something where the dose makes the poison. Usually we're talking lower volumes of bb (strictly used as a solubility modifier) vs EO (being used as the actual carrier oil) but there is evidence which I have not weeded out anecdotally that using EO alone as a carrier oil minus BB may actually be less inflammatory. Again simply a theory I have not tested this on myself and it doesn't appear as though we will get the same solubility using EO alone since it's not as powerful as BB as dissolving shit.

When people have high CRP or inflammatory blood markers I highly doubt it's from the EO. I would put money that it's actually the BB if it's the oil even at all could also be training diet and a whole slew of other bullshit causing inflammatory responses. No one is doing a control trial with EO. Everyone's training diet and cycles change with the wind I highly doubt anyone in here is disciplined enough to actually do a control on themselves with EO coupled with blood work to find out.

Well I did with Mig840 at the best I could and it's not increasing my CRP.

You can do the same with EO. Just need the patience and to run CRP multiple time like once every week and not have PIP from any substance when testing it, don't have any sore throat or anything that raise CRP naturally.

I have consistently shown via blood that my CRP float around a normal range when using mig840 except once when I draw blood after I developed PIP from a botched injection and that showed high CRP but it was from the inflammation given from the injection not the mig840. As soon as the PIP disappeared and I repinned I had no raise in CRP.

So if one does the same using EO could probably find out for HIMSELF how he reacts to it. Of course I wouldn't assume that just because you or me maybe don't get raised CRP from EO (hypothetically) the same will be for another individual.

 

[Sampei]

I would never use EO as carrier oil, just a 10/20% to thin the oil and increase solubility and absorption while keeping BB at 20%.

So 20/20 EO/BB and the rest carrier oil MCT/mig840/GSO/castor

 

[bighunanballs]

Yea, there's only a handful of people on here that could possibly understand or have the discipline to know their own bodies' reactions to compounds with which they've done slow trial and error. They also wouldn't know their diet, training, rest, etc. well enough to factor those into any analyses. Crazy shit, right? Funny how it's the same elite group riding on EO's dick are same ones that have this esoteric knowledge and ability. So much arrogance on this board, and Spaceman/Crido lead the pack. Always have. I love how he whined about BBBG being a bully as one of his alt's over on PM, and from what I've seen, he's the biggest one around. This thread is collecting them quite well, and it has become a convenient place from which to add to my ignore list. Byeeee. Cue Sampei, the hyena.

I don't think there's anyone in here that can pull off the discipline needed to mimic a scientific control study. That's why these things take place in a laboratory under extreme controlled conditions. Even a disciplined bodybuilder in their day-to-day lives is going to have circumstances and things that take place that cannot be accounted for that can affect inflammation markers. Inflammation markers are so easy to upset. The slightest allergy flare up can cause it, as slight allergy to a food, a heavy leg day, so many things that I would point to before thinking a few cc's of EO caused.

 

[bighunanballs]

Well I did with Mig840 at the best I could and it's not increasing my CRP.

You can do the same with EO. Just need the patience and to run CRP multiple time like once every week and not have PIP from any substance when testing it, don't have any sore throat or anything that raise CRP naturally.

I have consistently shown via blood that my CRP float around a normal range when using mig840 except once when I draw blood after I developed PIP from a botched injection and that showed high CRP but it was from the inflammation given from the injection not the mig840. As soon as the PIP disappeared and I repinned I had no raise in CRP.

So if one does the same using EO could probably find out for HIMSELF how he reacts to it. Of course I wouldn't assume that just because you or me maybe don't get raised CRP from EO (hypothetically) the same will be for another individual.

Yeah no I just don't think us bodybuilding folk are going to be able to pull off a proper test a once a week test is definitely not going to be enough to see if inflammation markers are caused by a certain solvent. You're going to need to do multiple tests per day over the course of 1 to 2 days after injection. No lifting, eating a pre planned absolutely non-allergic inducing diet daily and have no stress at all from outside sources like a nagging wife or your kids crayoning the walls that day etc.

Yes, stress can indeed cause increases in CRP (C-reactive protein) and other inflammation blood markers like IL-6, TNF-alpha, and various interleukins. When you're stressed, your body produces more stress hormones like cortisol and adrenaline, and this can trigger a pro-inflammatory response in the immune system.

Chronic stress especially has been linked to low-grade inflammation. For example:

Acute stress (like a brief argument or physical stress) can cause a short-term spike in inflammation markers.

Chronic stress (like ongoing work stress, caregiving for a sick loved one, or long-term anxiety) has been linked to sustained elevations in CRP and inflammatory cytokines.


This relationship is part of why stress is considered a risk factor for cardiovascular diseases and other inflammatory conditions. However, the extent of inflammation from stress varies by individual—genetics, lifestyle, and underlying health conditions all play a role.

If you’re seeing elevated CRP levels and you’re under a lot of stress, it might be worth working on stress management and checking with your healthcare provider to rule out other possible causes of inflammation as well. Let me know if you want to talk about ways to manage stress or dig deeper into how inflammation works

All that being said I do think you could tell with your body if you feel like you might be having an inflammation issue with a solvent. The old "test flu" symptoms come to mind. If you have one oil not containing EO and another with it and you switch to the EO containing oil (both being the same anabolic like test c 250mg) and all of a sudden you get test flu like symptoms from that change I would say you could correlate it then to EO. I would probably trust that seat of my pants feel more so than inflammation markers in the blood

 

[Photon]

Yeah no I just don't think us bodybuilding folk are going to be able to pull off a proper test a once a week test is definitely not going to be enough to see if inflammation markers are caused by a certain solvent. You're going to need to do multiple tests per day over the course of 1 to 2 days after injection. No lifting, eating a pre planned absolutely non-allergic inducing diet daily and have no stress at all from outside sources like a nagging wife or your kids crayoning the walls that day etc.




All that being said I do think you could tell with your body if you feel like you might be having an inflammation issue with a solvent. The old "test flu" symptoms come to mind. If you have one oil not containing EO and another with it and you switch to the EO containing oil (both being the same anabolic like test c 250mg) and all of a sudden you get test flu like symptoms from that change I would say you could correlate it then to EO. I would probably trust that seat of my pants feel more so than inflammation markers in the blood

For clinical trials on safety, companies usually test much higher doses.

One could pull hsCRP, inject 2ml x 2 of pure EO, wait 3-4 hours and then pull hsCRP again. This can be done with BB as well or any other product. CRP usually rises really quick to any sort of inflation.

Is it a realistic scenario? No -- but it does help ascertain a body's reaction.
Given how thin it is, I would think most of it is absorbed rapidly.

Its not that expensive either. <15$ in US for each test.

 

[Sampei]

Yeah no I just don't think us bodybuilding folk are going to be able to pull off a proper test a once a week test is definitely not going to be enough to see if inflammation markers are caused by a certain solvent. You're going to need to do multiple tests per day over the course of 1 to 2 days after injection. No lifting, eating a pre planned absolutely non-allergic inducing diet daily and have no stress at all from outside sources like a nagging wife or your kids crayoning the walls that day etc.




All that being said I do think you could tell with your body if you feel like you might be having an inflammation issue with a solvent. The old "test flu" symptoms come to mind. If you have one oil not containing EO and another with it and you switch to the EO containing oil (both being the same anabolic like test c 250mg) and all of a sudden you get test flu like symptoms from that change I would say you could correlate it then to EO. I would probably trust that seat of my pants feel more so than inflammation markers in the blood

I agree we can't pull the same results as a controlled study but you are exaggerating the CRP ordeal. CRP raise in less than 24 hours and if the inflammation is gone it will go down in less than 48hrs. Now If I'm injecting EOD a substance that is giving me persistent systemic inflammation my CRP will be high, no matter what, even with one blood test a week there is no way to escape that. It's what I did with MIG840 and I'm very confident it's not giving me any systemic inflammation or my fucking CRP wouldn't be in range as you properly stated sometime even a sneeze can influence CRP so if it stays down sure as hell what I'm injecting EOD can't be giving me any inflammation or it would be recorded from the blood test.

What you can have is a false positive, so you get a small allergy, cold, sore throat, PIP from a botched injection and your CRP will raise and you will be attributing that to the EO or mig or whatever and you would be wrong.

But I have been testing my CRP every week for more than 12+ weeks, the entire course of my cycle, unless one is so "unlucky" to have external factors giving a raised CRP instead of the substance injected, there is no fucking way if you keep every week seeing your CRP elevated that's not the gear you are introducing into your body.

Primo for example after a while gives me systemic inflammation and raised CRP, I can't go for too long at 600/800mg a week without feeling sick after a while and my CRP goes sky high, as soon as I stop PRIMO puff CRP goes back to normal.

So one can do the same for any solvents, you need to just keep injecting the same dosages, the same batch, the same oils with the same amount of solvents and keep testing your CRP. if OUT of 16 weeks for example you keep getting elevated CRP, what's gonna be? I bet it's the solvent in your oil

 

[Ateam2023]

I agree we can't pull the same results as a controlled study but you are exaggerating the CRP ordeal. CRP raise in less than 24 hours and if the inflammation is gone it will go down in less than 48hrs. Now If I'm injecting EOD a substance that is giving me persistent systemic inflammation my CRP will be high, no matter what, even with one blood test a week there is no way to escape that. It's what I did with MIG840 and I'm very confident it's not giving me any systemic inflammation or my fucking CRP wouldn't be in range as you properly stated sometime even a sneeze can influence CRP so if it stays down sure as hell what I'm injecting EOD can't be giving me any inflammation or it would be recorded from the blood test.

What you can have is a false positive, so you get a small allergy, cold, sore throat, PIP from a botched injection and your CRP will raise and you will be attributing that to the EO or mig or whatever and you would be wrong.

But I have been testing my CRP every week for more than 12+ weeks, the entire course of my cycle, unless one is so "unlucky" to have external factors giving a raised CRP instead of the substance injected, there is no fucking way if you keep every week seeing your CRP elevated that's not the gear you are introducing into your body.

Primo for example after a while gives me systemic inflammation and raised CRP, I can't go for too long at 600/800mg a week without feeling sick after a while and my CRP goes sky high, as soon as I stop PRIMO puff CRP goes back to normal.

So one can do the same for any solvents, you need to just keep injecting the same dosages, the same batch, the same oils with the same amount of solvents and keep testing your CRP. if OUT of 16 weeks for example you keep getting elevated CRP, what's gonna be? I bet it's the solvent in your oil

i'm curious what your CRP is on "average"?

 

[Sampei]

i'm curious what your CRP is on "average"?

0.3-0.6

0,43 mg/dL
latest

range: 0.00 - 0.80

 

[bighunanballs]

I agree we can't pull the same results as a controlled study but you are exaggerating the CRP ordeal. CRP raise in less than 24 hours and if the inflammation is gone it will go down in less than 48hrs. Now If I'm injecting EOD a substance that is giving me persistent systemic inflammation my CRP will be high, no matter what, even with one blood test a week there is no way to escape that. It's what I did with MIG840 and I'm very confident it's not giving me any systemic inflammation or my fucking CRP wouldn't be in range as you properly stated sometime even a sneeze can influence CRP so if it stays down sure as hell what I'm injecting EOD can't be giving me any inflammation or it would be recorded from the blood test.

What you can have is a false positive, so you get a small allergy, cold, sore throat, PIP from a botched injection and your CRP will raise and you will be attributing that to the EO or mig or whatever and you would be wrong.

But I have been testing my CRP every week for more than 12+ weeks, the entire course of my cycle, unless one is so "unlucky" to have external factors giving a raised CRP instead of the substance injected, there is no fucking way if you keep every week seeing your CRP elevated that's not the gear you are introducing into your body.

Primo for example after a while gives me systemic inflammation and raised CRP, I can't go for too long at 600/800mg a week without feeling sick after a while and my CRP goes sky high, as soon as I stop PRIMO puff CRP goes back to normal.

So one can do the same for any solvents, you need to just keep injecting the same dosages, the same batch, the same oils with the same amount of solvents and keep testing your CRP. if OUT of 16 weeks for example you keep getting elevated CRP, what's gonna be? I bet it's the solvent in your oil

There's no exaggeration here. Crp and inflammation can change throughout the day or a 24hr period

 

[Sampei]

There's no exaggeration here. Crp and inflammation can change throughout the day or a 24hr period

Yes and what did I say? If you are injecting something that gives you systemic inflammation you ain't escaping it. Something injected in your body is not giving you a raise of CRP for 2 hrs and then disappear if it's a systemic inflammation you will have increased CRP.

If it's so easy to raise CRP just looking at it the wrong way how is it that I'm mostly always in range and don't have any major inflammation unless something very straight forward is happening: a flu, a sore throat, PIP, pulled a muscle or whatever.

So I'm srsly don't understand what you are trying to say here.

I stated quite clearly the parameters on how to assess if a solvents it's giving increased persistent CRP, have you ever tried it at least? Because I mean again I have close to 16 weeks of continuous testing proving a trend and it proves no systemic inflammation despise you keep saying one can get raised CRP for anything so why I didn't? So why every fucking time out of 14 times I went to check my CRP I didn't have it raised if it's so easy?

I do have a stressful life, I do train consistently, I inject multiple time a day everyday.

And even so all these stuff are a constant in my life my results don't show any systemic inflammation, so again what are you saying? I'm the luckiest man alive? Or MAYBE it is completely possible to assess our systemic inflammation if enough test are made consistently so that we can get enough data to check if there is a trend or not.
Sorry but I don't see the logic in what you are trying to prove.

 

[bighunanballs]

Yes and what did I say? If you are injecting something that gives you systemic inflammation you ain't escaping it. Something injected in your body is not giving you a raise of CRP for 2 hrs and then disappear if it's a systemic inflammation you will have increased CRP.

If it's so easy to raise CRP just looking at it the wrong way how is it that I'm mostly always in range and don't have any major inflammation unless something very straight forward is happening: a flu, a sore throat, PIP, pulled a muscle or whatever.

So I'm srsly don't understand what you are trying to say here.

I stated quite clearly the parameters on how to assess if a solvents it's giving increased persistent CRP, have you ever tried it at least? Because I mean again I have close to 16 weeks of continuous testing proving a trend and it proves no systemic inflammation despise you keep saying one can get raised CRP for anything so why I didn't? So why every fucking time out of 14 times I went to check my CRP I didn't have it raised if it's so easy?

I do have a stressful life, I do train consistently, I inject multiple time a day everyday.

And even so all these stuff are a constant in my life my results don't show any systemic inflammation, so again what are you saying? I'm the luckiest man alive? Or MAYBE it is completely possible to assess our systemic inflammation if enough test are made consistently so that we can get enough data to check if there is a trend or not.
Sorry but I don't see the logic in what you are trying to prove.

You may be right buddy again I've said it countless times on the board, I'm just not that smart. I'm probably just overthinking it. I tend to do that as a mechanical engineer. Definitely not trying to get in an argument about it I just like debating these topics to better understand stuff. I did a deep dive into EO and found what I believe is possibly bro science lore spreading heavily in regards to eo causing issues in our cohort.

 

[bighunanballs]

0.3-0.6

0,43 mg/dL
latest

range: 0.00 - 0.80

I would be interested to see what a few people in our cohort test at early in the morning upon waking versus later in the afternoon after work and the gym all in the same day. I may do this on myself

 

[Sampei]

I would be interested to see what a few people in our cohort test at early in the morning upon waking versus later in the afternoon after work and the gym all in the same day. I may do this on myself

I'll do it, give me a week or two tho, I'm fucking hammered on stuff to do, I can't dedicate myself properly to these awesome little experiments xD

 

[Sampei]

Btw just to be clear, I'm not saying EO gives systemic inflammation, until at least I have tried my little experiment on it same as I did with mig840.

Because as you well said unless one has a direct reaction to a substance aka massive pip lumps redness after injecting, to assess the medium term possible inflammation one gets, you need to be strict with the tests and run it for at least 8/10 weeks and continuously testing for jf and in the meantime you need to be lucky to not have other little issues/things that screw your experiment like sneezing the wrong way xD

 

[120nmol]

Been using EO for a while now
0 issues and I actually prefer gear with EO it’s like water I heat the vial and use 32g needle for injection.
Crp is okey

 

[bananafeet]

Been using EO for a while now
0 issues and I actually prefer gear with EO it’s like water I heat the vial and use 32g needle for injection.
Crp is okey

This.

Goes in smoother, easy to inject, minimal PIP. Seems to crash more when refrigerated which leads me to believe there is less BB used (than pure MCT oil).

 

[verylargeshoes]

these mf complaining about pip is bitches, as long as it isnt a big infection or allergic reaction i could care less about some pain in my ass.

Most us aren’t incorporating any exercises into our program to put giant golf ball+ sized lumps on random places on our bodies, and don’t really want them there from injecting either. To each bitch their own, I guess

 

[Kermit]

If you have ever used Ukrainian pharmacy testosterone made with 100% Ethyl Oleate, you would not be afraid to use EO instead of oil. I think that there are elderly athletes from the post-Soviet republics, they should remember it, since the injections were soft and painless. Sometimes it was added to painful and thick oils to dilute them and reduce the chance of nodules after injections. They remember it with nostalgia. So do I.

 

[Mac81]

If you have ever used Ukrainian pharmacy testosterone made with 100% Ethyl Oleate, you would not be afraid to use EO instead of oil. I think that there are elderly athletes from the post-Soviet republics, they should remember it, since the injections were soft and painless. Sometimes it was added to painful and thick oils to dilute them and reduce the chance of nodules after injections. They remember it with nostalgia. So do I.

I just posted somewhere this morning about EO.. I want to experiment with higher amounts of it just because of what I've learned by using extremely small amounts of it.. just a couple percent of it added to a recipe will take something that would crash every 2 weeks and completely fix it permanently. Anytime I get something that I was experimenting with and I mixed too strong, I had a tiny bit of EO to it.. boom it's fixed.. One of these days I want to actually use a significant amount of it, I feel like it would make all sort of things hold it much higher concentrations than normal, The only thing I don't like is the absorption rate, I notice a huge difference with short esters, particularly tren.. You can literally feel it absorbing into the body right after you inject it,and taste it.. I think it does something similar to what DMSO does, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.