(Best of Meso) Training Theory by Angel Face

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[Best of Meso] Training Theory by Angel Face

Date: 09/30/01 09:44 AM
Author: Angel face
Subject: Here we go

...Right then I've basically decided to create this thread pretty much
as a resource on training theory...What I intend to do is make this
thread kinda like a text book so that anyone can refer to it if they
need to know something...this will take me a while to complete so I am
gonna do it in installments like small chapters...If the thread looks
like its gonna disappear cuz I havent posted can you please bump it to
keep the sucka active?... ...Why am I doing this? well for 2 reasons
really...the first is so that everyone out there has access to theories
that they may not neccessarily be familiar with...therefore I hope
everyone will learn something from this thread or at least it will jog
their memories and make you think a little... Plus I am getting
complacent so this will hopefully serve as a refresher for myself and
get me thinking again!... ...I will try to make it as readable as I can
so its not gonna be mega scientific or complex because I dont have the
resources...all information that I will post...I will backup with
literature when the thread is completed....Its not gonna be realy long
just enough to present you with some good basic information and
hopefully introduce you all to training theory so that you can apply it
to yourself... If anyone has got anything to add please feel free to do
so...
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=1171)







Date: 09/30/01 10:29 AM
Author: Angel face
Subject: Basic Concepts...

...This first few parts will deal with a few basic theories and will be
somewhat introductory. ...ADAPTATION.. Adaptation is both the primary
target of training in general and one of the most important laws that
governs the way we train. A simple definition of adaptation would be
adjustment to environment. Consequently when the environment is subject
to change so too would be the object. The primary objective in training
is to incite explicit adaptations to increase performance. Consequenlty
it can be seen that the application of a carefully contrived training
program is imperitive. For adaptation to occur then the stimulus for the
adaptation has to be at a greater level than the current standing. To
increase the magnitude manipulating the intensity, volume and modality
is often employed. Consequnetly if the same stimulus is being presented
over a long period of time then once intial adaptations have occured
there will be no more changes thus a plateau forms. Training loads are
often categorized into three areas according to the 'magnitude' that
they correspond to ... ...The first would be a stimulating
magnitude...here the training load is above the habitual level... ...The
second is retaining...this is where the level is neutral and thus
maintained... ...The third is thus detraining...here the magnitude is
beneath the habitual level and thus a decline in performance is
observed. Essentially for any positive adaptation to occur then OVERLOAD
must be created. In the absence of overload typically performance will
either be maintined for a period of time or decrease. This is governed
by accomodation. ACCOMODATION is in essence a decrease in response
observed to a continual stimulus. Thus interms of training continual
stimulus results in a loss of reponse. Resulting in a plateau, training
thus becomes redundant. This concept neccessitates the need to present
yourslef with variety. It is unwise to present yourself with the same
stimulus for a long period of time. Avoidance of the accomodation effect
can be achievd by the simple application of variety achieved via
quantitaive (load, volume intensity etc)and qualitative (types of
exercises performed) measures. Adaptation to training stimulus is
specific. For a particular training goal to be observed the stimulus
(training) has to be specific to the goal. Consequently it would be
unwise for an olympic weightlifter to train like an endurance athlete
and vice versa. SPECIFICITY is the application of the training stimulus
to the nature of the intended goal. Therefore if an individual wanted to
increase his benchpressing ability it woudl be wise to train the muscles
resposibles for the movement.... ...
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=1174)







Date: 09/30/01 04:25 PM
Author: Angel face
Subject: Adaptations as response to training part1...

...Adaptations as a response to the training stimulus can be classified
as either Central (CNS)and peripheral (pertaining to the muscle). The
importance of the central nervous system cannot be underestimated. to
appreciate the adaptations that occur centrally we must first be aware
of how these central factors work. Typically central factors fall into
two distinct categories. The first is intramuscular coordination..this
relates to which the muscle fibres can be activated voluntarily.
Intermuscular coordination is the coordinated innervation of appropriate
muscell groups and is thus skill related. Motor units are the essential
foundations of the motor system. Typically they consist of motoneurons,
axons, motor endplates, and muscle fibres activated by a motor neuron.
Motor units are generally classified into to groups based on their
contractile characteristics. Slow motor units are typically used for
prolonged use at low intensities, they consist of small low threshold
motor neurons axos with low conduction frequencies and slow twitch
muscle fibres. Consequently fast motor units are the antithesis of slow
motor units. They will consist of a large high threshold motor neuron,
an axon with a high conduction velocity and fast twitch muscle fibres.
the activation of a motor unit is solicited by an all or nothing law.
basically this dictates that a motor unit either fires or it doesnt.
Consequently there is no alteration in the inetnisty of firing, they
either fire or they dont. the Central nervous system governs muscle
force via three methods...RECRUITMENT, RATE CODING and SYNCHRONIZATION.
The recruitment pattern of the motor units during a voluntary
contraction is dependant on the size of the motor neurons (Size
principle). the motorneurons with the lowest firing threshold
(smaller)are recruited first, conseqnelty the more the intensity
increases the larger forces neccessary to generate are done so via
increasing the recruitment of the larger motorneurons. Consequently no
matter what the intensity of exercise slow twich fibres will be
recruited to some extent. The achieving of full motor unit activation is
deemed particularly difficult thus untrained individuals cannot recruit
all their motor units. one of the primary adaptations that occurs as
aresponse to weight training is an increase in the ability to recruit
Motor units. thus trained individual have an increased propensity for
motor unit activation. RATE CODING is the discharge frequency of the
motorneurons. With an increase in force needed, firing rate will
increase to accomodate. Synchronisation...motor units work in harmony to
achieve a fluid movemnt pattern. Within the muscle there are specific
inhibitory mechanisms that inhibit the amount of force that can be
generated. These are known as Golgi tendon organs and Renshaw cells. It
is common in life or death situation for a completely untrained
individual to be able to produce massive amounts of force...this is most
likely due to an inactivation of these inhibitory mechanisms. It has
been shown that with strength training a reuction in neural inhibition
can occur increasing the amount of strength that can be generated due to
an increase in the recruitable 'motorneron pool'. Exercise is a highly
skillful sequence that requires the complex coordination of several
muscel groups (intermuscular coordination). Consequently motor learning
or the acquisition of skillshould be a primary training objective.
Dramatic strength increases in beginners is oftem the result of skill
acquisition, consequently this type of adaptaion has little cross over
benefit. Next time I will concntrate on the peripheral adaptations and
consequently the theories of muscular growth.
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=1235)







Date: 10/01/01 11:55 AM
Author: Angel face
Subject: Adaptations part 2 - peripheral

O.K in the last post I presented a few of the central adaptations that
can occur. These adaptations are repsonsible for the observation of
strength increases without hypertophy. Consequently for the first few
weeks of training when initial increases in strength are observed, the
strength increases are deemed to be the result of neuromuscular
efficiency.
...Peripheral adaptations, this is the area that we as bodybuilders will
be most concerned with. Again I will introduce a few concepts. I will
briefly discuss hypertrophy and hyperplasia. For those that dont have an
understanding of physiology I will briefly explain a few basic concepts.
Again I will keep it pretty simple as I dont want to blind everyone with
science.
Skeletal muscles consist of many many fibres. these are long and
cylindrical in shape they are the cells. Each of the fibres is made up
of myofibrils, which are made up of sarcomeres. These sarcomeres are
made up of both thick (myosin)and thin filaments(actin). The myosinf
filaments have small crossbridges projecting outwards on the end of
these protrusions is the myosin head.
Muscle contraction (known as the sliding filament theory) is the result
of the myosin and actin filaments sliding across each other. This is
because the myosin heads attach the actin and basically pull the
filamnts over each other. This results in a shortening of the sarcomere.
So everytime you contract a muscle this is what happens, it shortens
because the filaments slide. Hence a muscle can only pull, it cannot
push. Muscles with longer sarcomeres (filaments) generally can exert a
greater force because they have more room to overlap. All sarcomeres of
the myofibrils exert the same amount of force, they act in a linear
fashion.
The force produced by a muscle fibre is dependant on the number of actin
and myosin filaments and thus the number of myofibrils. One of the main
adaptations of training is an increased number of myofibrils per muscle
fibre, and an increase in the density and size of the filaments. This
will result in an increase in the cross sectional area (size) of a
muscle. Consequently from this assertion it can be seen why a bigger
muscle is potentially a stronger muscle.
muscle force is dependant on the number of muscle fibres, cross
sectional area of the fibres and thus size.
Increase in muscle size is called muscle hypertophy and is caused by
either an increased number of motor fibre (fibre hyperplasia) or an
increase in the cross sectional area of a muscle fibre(fibre
hypertophy).
Here we will deal with two types of fibre hypertophy, myofibrillar and
sarcoplasmic. Sarcoplasmic hypertophy is the increase in size of the
sarcoplasm, typically filament density will decrease with sarcoplasmic
hypertophy, so that it is possible for a fibre CSA to increase without
increases in strength. Myopfibrillar hypertophy is an enlargement of the
muscle fibre because more myofibrils are formed, consequently it is
usually followed by an increase in filament density and thus strength
increases.
Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is associated with an increase in
noncontractile tissues, which is why filamnt density decreases.
Myofibrillar hypertophy typically results in an increase in contractile
tissues hence the increase in density and strength.
There are many theories as to how weight training results in hpertophy,
the most widely accpeted theory is that of the breakdown and build up
theory.
This theory in its most basic form speculates that all energy during
exhaustive weigh training is spent on the training itself resulting in
the creation of a catabolic state. Consequently a deficit forms during
training where more amino acids are being broken down than synthesized.
After training protein synthesis is increased massively both post
workout and up till the next session. Protein synthesis will then drop
again during training. The purported increase in muscle size is due to
the fluctuation of protein synthesis which is alleged to result in
SUPERCOMPENSATION of protein and thus hypertophy. This alone
neccesitates the need for more protein in the diet (so fuck off RDAs
etc!).
I wont cover the hormonal affects of training unless you want me to as
some of you will probably want to commit suicide due to boredom!
Phewwwwww, got that (I hope so) I am sure that what I probably just
typed (very badly I am sure as per usual!) will make no sense whatsoever
so I apologise for how this thread will read...not exactly enthralling
stuff i know but it will get much better I promise!
next time we shall cover SUPERCOMPENSATION amoungst a few other
things...
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=1400)
 
Date: 10/01/01 05:27 PM
Edited: 10/01/01 05:28 PM
Author: toms
Subject: Easy on the vocab

I thought you said these wouldn't get to scientific. It's obvious that
your trying to sound well educated by your word choices. All of your
post is easy reading until you get into the information where you switch
to textbook style. You gonna lose a lot of readers if you keep writing
like this. Check out my edit of your third post:
...changes from training can be grouped as Central or muscle. Central
factors fall into two categories. The first is intramuscular
coordination and the second is intermuscular coordination. Slow motor
units are used at low intensities. Fast motor units are used at high
intensities. One of the primary adaptations that occurs as a response to
weight training is an increase in the ability to recruit Motor units.
Trained individuals have an increased ability to recruit muscle fibers.
It has been shown that with strength training a reduction in neural
inhibition can occur increasing the amount of strength. Strength
increases in beginners is oftem the result of skill acquisition,
consequently this type of adaptaion has little cross over benefit. Next
time I will write about muscle changes and theories on muscle growth.
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=1507)







Date: 10/02/01 06:22 AM
Author: Angel face
Subject: RE: Easy on the vocab

Cheers mate, I am so used to writing scientifically its quite hard not
to as the way i underatnd it in my mind probably is not translating
well in the posts, What I intend to do once I can find the neccessary
web sites is to link to them so that there are diagrams to basically
show what i am trying to say, Its really difficult to explain about
motor units etc etc plus muscle composition if you cant see what I am
trying to explain. After the physiology side it will be a lot more
accessible, chances are though when it come to the biomechanics side
people will get confused... ...anyway I will try to explain it better
and more clear, i am shit at typing - I've got monkey finger so I tend
to hit three buttons at once and probably mispell shite loads of
things. Eventually i will edit the posts to clear things up and then
link the sites. At the minute i am typing off the top of my head (so I
am probably taking for granted that because I know what certain
scientific terms mean, other people will too) so when it comes to
things I myslef are unclear about I will probably explain them better
with references.
 
Date: 10/04/01 02:15 AM
Author: johnsmith
Subject: RE: RE: Easy on the vocab

angel, if you can maybe you should post graphs of both the single
factor theory and the dual factor theory side by side, so people can
see how they differ, and can see why people who subscribe to the
dual factor theory program training differently. assuming you have
zatsiorskys book, you can get some nice graphs there if you want...
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=2424)









Date: 10/04/01 03:44 AM
Author: Angel face
Subject: RE: RE: Easy on the vocab

I havent got Zatsiorsky's book at the minute, I can get hold of it
though...I intend to post graphs I Just dont know how to do
it...do you John? ...Its not gonna be particularly undertsandable
without them is it!...
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=2431)









Date: 10/04/01 04:51 AM
Author: johnsmith
Subject: RE: RE: Easy on the vocab

no, unfortunately i dont know how to post them either. the only
thing i can think of would be to make them, put them on one of
those free homepages like homestead or something, then link to
it. but thats a lot of work, thats why i never did it.
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=2437)









Date: 10/04/01 06:11 AM
Author: Angel face
Subject: RE: RE: Easy on the vocab

Cheers John...I'll try to find some sites that may have the
diagrams on and link them...if not I'll try making the damned
things...why do I get the feeling that I may live to regret
making this thread!
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=2454)
 
Date: 10/03/01 12:34 PM
Author: Angel face
Subject: Basic Training theories

...After a couple of suggestions I have had I will try my best to keep
things easy reading...today's topic is really
straightforward...regarding what I have spoke about previously I will
edit it and make it more readable...plus I may have to add quite a bit
more physiological stuff and biochemistry depending on how the thread
evolves...
...Anyway SUPERCOMPENSATION...this is a really basic and somewhat
obvious concept that for a while was accepted quite widely...however
nowadays it is deemed a bit too simplistic. This theory is based on the
assumption that training will deplete certain substances, obvious
examples would be glycogen...One theory about hypertophy is that
training acts catabolically. The training serves as a stimulus, after
the training there is the neccessary rest period. After the rest period
it is puported that the appropriate substance concentration will
increase to a level beyond the initial point. Simple really! Now to
ensure that this would happen rest periods would have to be optimal.
optimal is an expression used alot in science, which basically means
desirable. If the rest period was too short then the individual would
not be completely recovered and as such the training would deplete the
substance even more which over a period of time would result in
overtraining and a loss of performance ie: training 4 times a day!. If
the rest interval was too long then the training would lose its stimulus
property, the individual would recover completely and lose the window of
oppurtinutity to provide the stimulus again. So ultimately the
individual would never improve...ie if yu trained once every 2-3 weeks,
you simply would not improve. If the interval is optimal then
improvemnts surely follow.
This theory is then dependant on two factors really: Optimal rest
interval, Optimal load selection. With regards to loads, the load has to
be such so that it stimulates optimally, it cannot be too high or low.
Typically this theory is represented on a wave like diagram (I will link
these asap.). An obvious example of the supercompensation theory is carb
loading. With carb loading for a period of time you deplete the muscle
stores, which would results in a massive drop in CHO levels, after this
occurs an individual would overfeed with an abundance of carbs, the body
is alleged then to store more carbs than the pre depletion level within
the muscle tissue resulting in a greater concentration of carbs. This is
often applied to more than gylcogen, training is alleged to cause a
similar repsonse to protein synthesis, hence the 'break down and build
up' theory. I will post later on with regards to a more complex
approach!.
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=2192)







Date: 10/04/01 06:42 AM
Edited: 10/04/01 06:47 AM
Author: Angel face
Subject: RE: Basic Training theories

I tried linking this but it wouldnt work properly...maybe something to
do with my lack of html skills...
http://www.sportislife.com/effects.htm
Ignore the text on this if you want..the first diagram is the overload
diagram...note the starting point...and the window of opputinity aka
the period of supercompensation... ...the second diagram is the
effects of repeated bouts of supercompenation which results in an
increased starting threshold an each successive session (does that
make sense?)....anyway the diagrams will show it better
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=2458)








Date: 10/05/01 05:33 AM
Author: Angel face
Subject: Two Factor Theory

For this I will be refering to 'the science and practise of strength
training' by Vladimir Zatsiorky as mentioned by John earlier...I forgot
how good this book is and I recommend that anyone interested in this
area to buy it...be warned though if you think that what I say is
confucing just wait.... ...Two factor theory, also called Fitness
fatigue theory is somewhat more complex than supercompensation theory.
This theory is entirely dependant on one thing Zatsiorsky referes to it
as preparedness...I prefer base conditioning. This preparedness or
condition is comprised of two componants: slow changing and fast
changing. Zatsiorsky uses the example of fitness as a slow changing
componant of preparedness. This is because over the short term fitness
does not fluctuate often, however external factors can affect it ie:
illness. Zatsiorsky describes prepardness as a set of 'latent
charcteristics' (he means that they exist but are dependantly
intangible)...these charcteristics can only be measured or quantified at
certain times. Sounds quite complex but you will grasp it soon!...
...This theory works similar to an equillibrium, training will have an
immediate affect (similar to supercompensation) that is the combination
of fatigue and gain. So after a workout, because of the stimulus that it
provides preparedness or conditioning increases (gain) but at the same
time will decrease due to fatigue from the training. Hopefully things
now will start to make sense.
So, the outcome of the training session is the result of both the
positive and negative consequences of the training session. These two
outcomes depend on time as does the one factor theory
(supercompensation). By striking the correct balance, fatigue should be
large in extent but short in how long it lasts. Gain on the other hand
should be moderate however is longer in duration. Typically the
relationship is 1:3, if fatigue lasts x amount of time then gain lasts
3x amount of time.
...From these two theories that have been introduced you should all now
be able to see that the most importnat factor that they introduce is
timing! with the supercompensation theory it is preferable for the next
workout to fall in the supercompensation period. With the
fitness-fatigue theory timing is best if the proceeding workout takes
place when all the negative consequneces (fatigue) of training are
diminsihed but the positive (gain) is still apparent. When I find a site
with the neccessary diagram I will try to link it!
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=2782)
 
Date: 10/05/01 07:09 PM
Author: johnsmith
Subject: RE: Two Factor Theory

hate to butt in here, but let me explain what i think are the
important things about these theories...
given the one factor theory, which looks at physical ability as, or
course, one factor, you are left with the problem of timing workouts
to correspond to the supercompensation wave... anything sooner or
later will lead to a useless workout.
given the two factor theory, which seperates physical fitness or
prepardness and fatigue, you see that the timing of individual
workouts it is unimportant to long term gains... in other words
regardless of whether or not fatigue is or is not present, fitness can
still be increased...
what is important to note is that there is almost universal agreement
amoung scientists and athletes and coaches in all sports EXCEPT
bodybuilding that the two factor theory is correct and the single
factor theory is not correct and is in fact suitable only for
beginners to follow when planning training.
it is also important to note that most athletes in most sports are
experiencing some level of constant fatigue ALWAYS, except for maybe a
couple of weekends a year, when they are peaking. training takes place
daily against a backdrop of fatigue.
 
Date: 10/08/01 03:18 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: RE: RE: Two Factor Theory

I am glad you brought this up John, thanks...
...with regards to fatigue yes it is always there only it rises and
falls depending on rest...the accumulation of stresses induced by
training and other variables contribut to fatigue...fatigue has a
mounting effect wherein it can slowly build up and build up until
OTS (over training syndrome) is achieved...this is one of the many
major fundamental reasonings for the peaking phase of periodisation.
And most probably Mike Mentzer's arguments for HIT...so eventially
training can become counterproductive.
...as to why the 2 factor theory is not accepted in BBing I dont
know why...do you John? or anyone else for that matter?...
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=3638)








Date: 10/08/01 03:10 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: Intensity

...This is a bigee and therefore I wil dedicate a few posts to
this...cheers for the positive response fellas I really appreciate
it...John, anytime you've got soemthing to add go right ahead mate...I
was hoping that you would contribute to this thread...I kinda feel like
training methods are undervalued hence one of the reasons for me
starting this thread.
...Intensity is a term that is used interchangeably with several
concepts...by this I mean that there are several different ways of
interpreting what constitutes intensity...Often these can be conflicting
but in essence it relates to how hard one is performing...Right then
intensity can be quantified via 4 (usually) criterion assessments:
intensity as a percntage of 1 RM...in Sports sci circles this is the
most common measurement of intensity with regards to strength training
(for aerobic type work intensity is usually measured via %age of max
heart rate)...consequently the closer you are to you 1 Rm in a
particular exercise the higher intensiy that you are working at...the
number of sets performed per hour, this obviuosley correlated to rest
intervals, the shorter the rest interval the more sets that can be
performed and thus the higher intensity...repetitions (this is
conditional really as are all the measures of intensity!)...this general
rule of thumb dictates that the closer you work to failure the higher
intensity (I will address failure several times later on!) you are
working at example: if you can perform 10 reps with x amount of weight
performing 8 reps is more intense than performing 5...the final
measurement is not often employed in the western world and really is
only applicable to competetive athletes in strength sports not
BBers...this is similar to the 1 rm intensity measure...this measure of
intensity is expressed as a %age of highest attained weight or PB...this
differentiates between training weight and competition
weights...external variables such as crowd reaction, motivating factors
etc etc can significantly (I dont use the word significantly lightly..I
am currently using it in the scientific sense of the term!)affect the
amount of weight lifted...anyone familar with the sports psychology term
'flow' or the 'zone' will understand that during competition there are
unexplainable periods wherein an athltes performs their best above any
training measure (whether it be weight lifted or time ran etc etc,
everything comes together effortlessly) hence this intensity measure
quantifies intensity as a %age of competiton weight...this is usually
done via heart rate...if an individual elicits a particularly elevated
HR prior to a lift then that lift is beyond what can be lifted during
training...This was originally a soviet technique (I think, dont quote
me on that)...so what I am trying to say is there are 2 intensities one
is with the presence of stress (eustress is a positive stress that is
beneficial) and without stress...I wont cover this method (thank god i
will be explaining it forever! unless some of the powerlifters would
want me too, let me know if your interested!)...With regards to the %age
of 1 Rm it is important to note that every idividual is different
depending on many factors such as neural efficiency, fibre ratio and so
on...basically if two atrhletes can bench 300lbs for 1 RM...they wont
neccesarilt be able to perform 10 reps with same amount of weight.
...I will cover intensity a lot more very soon!...I will adress training
to failure, optimal rep ranges for goals, TUT (time under
tension!)submaximal training and HIT (whats the betting that this causes
controversey)...also I am gonna apologise in advance as i will be
editing the physio. stuff and including more scientifc terms and
jargon...however its essential that you understand it before we
continue!.
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=3637)
 
Date: 10/09/01 03:20 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: Intensity cont.

Intensity again, as mentioned this is a V. large area so I will be
dealing with it several more times...this pretty much goes hand in hand
with training to failure and as this area has sparked some recent
discussions I will be covering this area several times, from a couple of
different view points...so what is said is not always gospel or an
exact...
...First off training with maximal weights...O>k before I delve into
this I want you to remember rate coding - smallest MUs first etc..well
unless a maximal load is lifted then only a portion of Motor Units are
utilised...Your body will only innervate the amount of Motor units that
are neccessary to perform the task!
...Back to Max weights, essentially gains elicited from max weight are
the result of the two previuos theories of neural adaptation:
intermuscular coordination and intramuscular coordination. Therefore the
majority of gains are not related to muscle growth but neural
efficiency...again I ask you to remeber what was mentioned previuosly
about hypertrophy in paticular the breakdown build up theory of protein
catabolism (training induces catabolism rest and recovery plus adaquate
protein intake induces supercompensation of protein and thus muscle
growth takes place) well because not enough WORK is performed when using
max weights (work = Force x Time, force = mass x acceleration)to
potentiate the neccessary muscle catabolism so that the anabolism can
take place...
...Training to failure via repeated subamaximal reps...this process of
training poetentiates differnet effects. Essentially as more work is
peformed in conjunction with rate coding, more motor units are recruited
to perform the set, again due to the fact that more work is performed
catabolism is markedly higher than training with maximal
weights....however strength gain is not the same as the most allegidle
important reps are performed at the end of set approaching
failure...this is because the higher threshold fatigueing motor units
are recruited and fatigued...thus causing the neccessary training effect
however as they are recruited while 'semi fatigued' the training effect
is not as significant on these motor units in comparison with max
weights.
...training submaximally from what has been mentioned above it would
seem fair to assume that this type of training would be pretty useless
unless it is performed to failure...however the difference between
taking a set to failure or to 1 or even 2 reps before failure will occur
seems negligible..plus by ,manipulating rest intervals shortening the
amount of rest inbetween consecutibe sets intensity is increased or by
increaseing the amount of time it takes to perform the
repetition...training to the exact moment of failure is not neccessarily
imperative...
So then it would appear that a big muscle isnt a strong muscle well this
is inaccurate, again nerual factors offer the reasoning...again I will
use rate coding it is extremely difficult to increase the strength of
slow motor units, hypertophy mainly occurs in the type 2a muscle fibres
(fast/intermediary fibres), consequently there is a correlation between
the size of a fast twitch muscle fibre and strength because the main
training adaptations occur in that muscle fibre type(s)...refering back
to what was said previoulsy about hypertophy due to increased
contrcatile proteins increases strength and muscle size....again this
will be discussed later.
...Next time I will present a different view on training to failure.
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=3954)
 
Date: 10/11/01 12:40 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: Intensity and Failure

Now this is where we start to get to the nitty gritty, but first I will
have to cover some background stuff on fatigue...for this I am assuming
that you have knoweldge of how energy is formed...if not let me know and
I will post some info...
ATP/Pc factors: Intramuscular levels of ATP fall rapidly during
exercise...this is thought to be one of the major factors in fatigue...
Creatine Phosphate levels fall rapidly at the onset of exercise, after a
period of roughly 30 secs levels may be as low as 5% of the prexercise
concentration. Consequenlty there wont be optimal levels of CP to
replenish ATP stores.
Creatine Phosphate fuels the ADP/ ATP conversion, as levels of CP
decline levels of ATP get depleted.
The ATP/PC system fuels the first few seconds of exercise...after which
anaerobic glycolysis takes place... a buy product of glycolysis is
Lactic acid, which casues a build-up in the muscle cells of Hydrogen
ions (H+) raising the p.H.... Which affects the process that exposes
actin cross-bridging sites (troponin) and permit muscle contraction. ATP
formation is also affected.
calcium ions (Ca++) are released from the sarcoplasmic reticulum by the
T tubules during muscle contraction and returned by the Ca-Pump.
Reduced sarcoplasmic Ca++ concentrations has been linked to fatigue.
Declines in force that can be produced have been linked to declined
levels of CA++ (Calcium ions). This is because decreased Ca++ released
reduces the number of actin/myosin cross-bridges that can be formed.
This is most likely to be due to impairement of the T-tubule. While
exercising potassium ions (K+)build up in the T-tubules, this is due to
the inability of the Na+K+ ATPase (breaks down ATP) Pump (sodium,
potassium atpase pump) to maintain the proper Na+/K+ balance at the
T-tubules. This affects the conduction of the action potential (these
cause movement to occur...like an electrical impulse) to the
sarcoplasmic reticulum, consequently Ca++ release is inhibited affecting
one's capacity to contract a muscle. lactic acid again builds yup here
and once again intracellular H+ concentrations increase, this then slows
the uptake of Ca++ by the sarcoplasmic reticulum, because the H+ affects
the pump. Therefore there is a marked reduction in levels of Ca++
As should be obviuos ATP is broken and provides the energy for
contraction (into ADP and Pi)this inorganic phosphate (Pi) builds up.
Increased Pi levels are thought to inhibit further cross-bridges being
formed between the filaments. As ATP is used to fuel the muscle
contraction, Pi is released from the myosin head. Increased
concentrations of Pi affects this from happening.
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=4723)







Date: 10/11/01 02:02 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: RE: Intensity and Failure

That being said I can now continue...HIT popularized by Mike mentzer
(hope this doesnt open up the proverbial can of worms!)is based on the
premise that If you don't take your sets to failure, then you are not
presenting your body with the stimulus to adapt because you can
perform the appropriate amount of reps. Therefore as you take your
reps to failure, you are presenting the stimulus by forcing your body
to cope with something that it cannot do (remeber the original post!).
Consequently you adapt because you have forced yourself to do
something that it simply cannot do...seems logical and simple right!
But you have to ask yourself, why are so many powerlifters muscular if
they dont train to failure? as with olympic lifters!
...I take you back to the theory of rate coding..essentially you fail
in an exercise because there are not sufficiently rested muscle fibres
to perform the task...at the end of the set the only fibres that arent
fatigued are the low threshold high endurance motor units..which dont
have the neccessary force producing capabilities to perform the work.
I take you back now to the theory of supercompensation and the
subesequent breakdown and buildup theory that dictates that muscle
damage (catabolism) has to occur for the increase in proetin synthesis
to occur!...
...Research has shown that the most muscle damage occurs during the
negative paotion of the exercise (sarcomere popping!)...this is
because less muscle fibres are recruited to perform the eccentric
movemnt resulting in a greater stress on those fibres...consequently
by increasing the time that the muscle fibres are under tension (most
tension is generated during -ve portion) there in theory is a better
stimulus for muscle growth! ... from this it seems that more tension
can be generated by taking a set to failure than stopping short
because it would take longer to perform! keep this in mind!
...Back to rate coding (seems pretty important doesnt it?) as the
moment of failure draws closer the CNS will innervate all the motor
units it can to perform the reps and fire them as often as it
can...however as fatigue sets in there is a reduction in firing
frequency (up to around 70-80% I think!), consequently the rate of
twitching is not high enough to continue the exercise...thus failure
occurs.
...back to neural factors...as a nueron fires it has to release the
neurotransmitter Acetyl Choline so that the message can be
carried...as mentioned previoulsy the electrical current is passed
down the axon due to the na+ and K+ (when people refer to electrolites
in sports drinks like gatorad, lucozade, these is what they are
refering to), and the K+ Na+ atp ase pump... as failure approaches
(lack of firing) the electrolites become taxed...as failure occurs
these are virtually depleted...it is speculated that another of the
major factors in fatigue is the inability of the motor neurons to
create and release acetylcholine (ACh) fast enough so that
transmission of the action potential can be maintained from the neron
to the muscle...
It can be said that ability to produce force is dependant on power
speed and frequency of the 'electrical impulse elicited by the CNS to
contract a muscle...as fatigue develops there is a mared decrease in
the speed of these signals, as this occurs inhibitory mechanisms
(mentioned previuos) stop further contrcations occuring....
...However due to emotional factors lke psyching oneself up it is
possible to extend the time until these inhibitory mechanisms take
effect(fight or flight syndrome)...there is a ditinct relationship
between this and catecholamine levels...
...Therfore I hope that you can see that failure may not occur due to
the peripheral (muscle) factors but the Central ones...failure may not
be due to muscular fatigue but neural inhibition...the CNS does this
for one simple reason: SO THAT IT CAN REST AND RECOVER!
...If we are to believe the supercompensation theory muscle fibers
need to produce appropriate tension for a long enough period of time
to cause damage breakdown...this has the effect of growth factors to
be released in the cells Calcium levels within the cell must increase
toperpetuate both Catabolism and the required anabolic effect. Growth
stimuli may also be provided by the fatigue metabolites building up
(phosphate and hydrogen ions) due to elevated levels of lactic acid .
Please not that any of these reactions occurs because of muscular
failure!
It may become evident that failure is actaully detrimental (note to
John this would neccessiate the two factor theory, that has always
been rejected by bodybuilders) because too much stress occurs
(especially if inadequate rest intervals are used)...this would
facilitate the increasing levels of fatigue resulting in a faster
establishment of the Overtraining syndrome!
Probably the main point to take away from this is intensity and rest
should be monitored so to prevent the build up of fatigue and OTS
...Hope that wasnt too heavy I am drawing to a close soon on this
thread...It could keep going on forever...but I hope that at least its
made at least one person sit up and think about how they train and
that its not as simple as going into the gym and picking up a few
pieces of iron a few times....I hope you can bump this thread to keep
it active so that other people get to read it!
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=4748)
 
Date: 12/04/01 04:53 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: I'll restart then...

O.k Here I go again..I never realised that I was in demand LOL!!!
Some more info to chew over....I'll start with some basic scientifically
accpeted (I dont say proven becuase in science nothing is ever reall
solid fact!!!)...I'll update as often as possible so I wont force a load
of info down your throat on each post!!
This will all relate to hypertophy...yeah the nitty gritty!!!
factors affecting hypertophy!!!
...It seems pretty much solid that hypertophy is a form of
supercompensation as a result of the stimulus thats placed on the
musculature...theres like a million refernces for this...
I'll start with a few interesting facts that may make you sit up and
think a bit: during the average day the body turnsover (synthesis etc)
3-4 grmas of protein per KG of BW (Check out work by Balolgopal - sp???
and El-Khoury). Also, in the 'average' person muscle weighs 40-45% of
BW, (skeletal muscle = 50% of total protein)...Muslce is made up of
water and proteins in a ratio of around 4:1, 10kg of muscle = around 2kg
of protein!!!!!!!
Right then, if hypertophy is the response to stimuli, well this is based
on supercompensation as I maentioned a while back. If thats the case
then the growth is response to muscle breakdown/damage...when a muscle
fibe is overloaded it gets damaged particulalry during eccentric
contrcations...Muscle damage is massively mis understood, so I will
cover it in a bit of detail...
...the major molecular chnages that occur are purported to be due to
eccentric contractions (Protein syntheses etc)...
MUSCLE DAMAGE high tensile stress (as in eccentrcics) causes the weak
sarcomeres to pop, also leads to the adjacent sarcomeres to
pop...however this also affects the fibres metabolically: 1)Damages
Sarcoplasmic Reticulum, which may result in a loss of Calcium Iron
homestasis (Calcium helps fuel contrcations) and may result in a loss of
muscle fibres-yikes
2) Streaming, broadening and total disruption of the z bands
3) increase in temoperature of the muscle disrupting protein structures
Delayed onset muscle soreness... Causes: 1) connective tissue damage, 2)
muscle fibre shortening 3)Oedema Lasts - 24-48 hrs post exercise, fully
disappears by day 7
FORCE LOSS (of interest to the power guys!!!) for 3 days after intense
ex. there is an immediate devrease in max muscle force, why??? well
then: contractile element damage, altertaion in the sarcomere lengths
(results in less x bridges that can be formed) 3) Psychological effect
of pain and soreness...
This may not seem relevant to you at first but this pretty much
substantiates that intensity has to be monitored, you cant just go in an
train intense...plus it also makes me suspect that muscle growth isnt
just a result of increaased protein synthesis etc...
Ill leave this post here and continue on a new one...it gets more
physiological!!!
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=17303)








Date: 12/04/01 05:12 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: RE: I'll restart then...

The responses from training are specific to the type of training
performed hence the specificity principle...
The adaptation of muscle dictates that specific proteins are degraded
and synthesised...myofibrillar proteins increase qite largely,
mitochondrial proteins increase with endurance training!!!
consequently the increase in intracellular aminos, particularly
myofibrillar with protein degredation helps to replace the high
turnover...
....Also, there maybe a possible migration of the ribosomes to the
areas that are most affected by the tyoe or training performed (to
utilse the degared proteins)...
applications...
Well then if we are to use the info posted we can see that hypertophy
is the result of poetine synthesis increases as a result of protein
degredation...which is caused by muscle damage...the most muscle is
damaged during eccentric exercise (more tension generated - because
less motor unites are used so there is greater stress ion the
individual fibres)...stretching has indeed been shown to help increae
hypertophy... consequently, for short term succes then there must be
sufficiebt stretch in the contrcatile elements (for facilitation of
muscle damamge), and tension...consequenlty, there should be an
emphasis on range of motion (to ensure stretch) and eccentric
contrcation (for tension)for protein sunthesis ....
Higher volumes of work appear to elicuit the best results (rep ranges
of 5-8 and 10-12), for multiple sets....refer to the intensity posts
for a review on optimal intenisty...
I will be covering the practical side to a geater extent, this is just
a taster!!! any questions...feel free to ask.
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=17314)









Date: 12/04/01 06:16 PM
Author: AnimalMass
Subject: RE: RE: I'll restart then...

O.k., I seem to be following you. To make sure
though...Supercompensation IS the way to increase hypertrophy,
however, the Supercompensation theory of beating the shit out of
your muscles isn't nec what we're looking for, but more of a
dual-factor theory?
Also, what did you mean by reps of 5-8 and 10-12 are the best? Which
is the best? - 5-8, or 10-12?
AnimalMass
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=17340)









Date: 12/04/01 06:21 PM
Author: AnimalMass
Subject: RE: RE: I'll restart then...

Also, we want to imply full range of motion for the stretch,
eccentric movement (nagatives), (but not to the point of absolute
failure right? - ALso, how about time under tension?
AnimalMass
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=17343)









Date: 12/05/01 01:21 PM
Author: AnimalMass
Subject: RE: RE: I'll restart then...

Just wanted to pass along JohnSmith's input.
AnimalMass
"animal, concerning the single and dual factor training theories
you asked about earlier... i dont think the bodybuilding
community has altogether ignored the latter... in fact i think
that the HST that ******* has talked about seems to be taking
advantage of this principle.
basically the most real-world and practical advice i can give
you concerning the dual factor theory is this.
instead of thinking of each workout as one seperate "fatigueing"
session, followed by a seperate "recovery" session of a day or
two of rest... begin thinking in terms of weeks. in other words,
you have one, or two or even three weeks which are "fatigueing"
in other words you think of this time period just the same way
as some people think of one workout. you accumulate fatigue the
whole time, you never completely recover. then you have another
time period of recovery. this is another one, two or three weeks
in which you train with reduced frequency, volume, or intensity
and allow recovery to take place. personally i favor keeping
intensity high, drastically lowering volume, and slightly
lowering frequency. in any event the overall training stress is
lower.
so you have say two 3 week periods which you approach like you
would have approached two days, one a workout day and one a rest
day.
now, of course in programming for elite athletes it gets much
more complicated than thsi. you may also have a 6 month
"overload" period, during which you have a series of 5 week
periods each consisting of 3 weeks of hard work and 2 weeks of
lower stress training. then you may have another 3 or 4 month
period of "recovery" consisting of 1 week of "loading" or hard
work, then 1 or 2 weeks of reduced training.
all this may be superimposed upon 3 years of slightly harder
overall work, in other words slightly higher volume overall...
then 1 year of slightly lower volume. this fits into the fact
that the olympics are every 4 years and athletes want to hit
their highest performance at the olympics.
the greeks do 3 loading weeks followed by 1 unloading week
(approx 12 workouts a week during loading, and 9 workouts a week
during unloading, also all weights are lowered by about 10kilos
during the unloading week)... these are "loading" months, then
every 4th month is an "unloading" month consisting of only 1
loading week and 3 unloading weeks. close to a big competition
like the olympics... they switch to alternating weeks, 1 loading
week followed by 1 unloading week.
however, to actually program sets and reps... this is very
individual. what is unloading to me may be highly stressfull to
you. but this is how training is programmed for the majority of
athlets in sports other than BB and powerlifting. fatigue is
gradually accumulated and then gradually disipated...
i would encourage you or anyone else to take a look at the HST
training protocol... as it is the first BB specific program i
have ever seen that seems to be set up on these principles.
people doing it seem to be making gains, so i assume it is the
correct volume for a majority of bbers... of course individual
adjustment is usually required with programs like this.
personally... when adjusting volume for individuals i am lucky
in that i can use testosterone/cortisol ratios from weekly blood
draws and also glutamine/glutamate ratios to assist in
determining the stress level of the training for an individual
athlete. this allows me to be pretty precise in loading an
athlete to his limit without crossing the line into real
overtraining... then determining the correct volume of training
for the unloading period so that recovry takes place without any
detraining. unfortunately i doubt any of you have the rescources
to do this or the expertise to interpret the data correctly if
you did have access to it.
HOWEVER... i do have some "rule of thumb" guidlines... during
loading, if you are capable of setting personal records... your
not loading hard enough. on the other hand, if performance falls
below 85% for more than one or two workouts in a row... then you
need to lighten the load. the length of the loading period is
also individual. start with one week to 10 days... after youve
gone through a couple of cycles experiment with 2 and 3 week
loading periods. very few people can handle a 3 week loading
period. i know i cant. howeer the bulgarians and greeks do, so i
know some great athletes can do it, and maybe some of you can.
as far as unloading... you should be approaching peak
performance after 7-10 days of unloading... you should have peak
performance somewhere between 14 and 21 days of unloading. you
dont always want to allow peak performance. you may want to
follow 2 or 3 consecutive loading cycles without every allowing
complete recover during unloading, if you are really advanced...
however i dont recomend this for beginners to this type of
training... load then unload long enough to set new personal
records... allow another week or two to get good and rested then
load again.
hope this helps explain how this is used in the real world...
sorry but its just impossible to get into sets and reps on a
specific basis... but if you copied the 8 week squat program i
posted several times a while back this is an example of this
type of training, and its a proven and result producing
program."
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=17515)









Date: 12/05/01 02:11 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: RE: RE: I'll restart then...

Interesting...I wasnt aware of HST before
...Its good that the dual factor theory is being integreated
into thinking...a Large proportion of research pertaining to
training is based on the one factor theory, hence a lot of the
fundamentals being based on supercomp...and overload...I have
always though there was much more to it personally,
...I will bump JS's advice simply put because he is correct...

...HST may work for you, try it..rember the individualisation
principle, tailor it to yourself as you know your body best...

...The majority of research speculates that within the rep
ranges of 5-8 and 10-12 the most hypertrophy occurs, dont take
this as gospel, chances are this is more related to TUT, and
extraneous variables than a specific no. of reps...I will
cover TUT next along with a few other things...
I will post back later...busy at the mo.
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=17523)
 
Also John,
I remember a post from a few months ago that you did
about cyclign intensity. (Actualy we talked about it
alot.) Unfort. all was lost when meso went down.
Anyway, I just wondered how that fit into the scheme if
you said you like to keep intensity high even during
deloading, - but if I recall, the intensity cycle was
about a ten week example that cycled intensity up at a
peak around week 5, then tapered down and deloaded for a
max.
Also, if I'm supposed to fatigue at a maximum of 3 weeks
straight, then rest/ deload, how does the intensity
cycling fit into the plan?
AnimalMass
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=18082)









Date: 12/07/01 07:17 PM
Author: AnimalMass
Subject: RE: RE: I'll restart then...

getting close to three days with no posts from Angel.
Where are ya bro?
AnimalMass
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=18209)









Date: 12/07/01 09:55 PM
Author: AnimalMass
Subject: RE: RE: I'll restart then...

bump
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=18285)









Date: 12/08/01 11:18 AM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: RE: RE: I'll restart then...

Sorry mate, been well busy as of late....
Time under tension specifically towards
hyertrophy...well this theory, popularised by
charles Poliquin and Ian King mainly, is
surprisingly simple to implement and
understand...yet will help produce good results..
...easy, if we rember that there is an inverse
relationship between a mucle fibres power producing
capacities and endurance capabilities then its
pretty obvious that there is a relationship between
time and optimal training... sets and reps take
place over time (well duhhh!!!) hopefully you will
see that it is more precise to relate load and time
together as opposed to load and reps/sets....
...counting reps may not actually be the indicator
of the amount of work that you have performed...if
anything reps are simply a marker or reference
point, if we look at the equation work = force x
distance...well a rep tells you that you've
performed work...but not how much...
...for instance, on the bench you've got an
indicidual who benches 300lbs for 5 reps, the
eccentric takes 2 seconds and the conecntric takes
1, there is no pause...conversley take another
exmaple of an indivdual who performs 300lbs for 5
reps however, his eccentric takes 5 seconds with a
one second pause at the bottom...concentric takes 3
seconds....who do you think has performed more work?
however they are both moving the same amount of
weight for the same amount of reps...also who will
have the better 1 rm and chest development
(hypothetically!!!)
...its pretty simple...also, think of kinetic energy
and momentum, during a fast eccentric you are
building up kinetic energy (Kinetic energy is energy
due to motion) which have a rebounbd effect meaning
that the momentum created by the fast eccentric
translates into an easier concentric....meaning that
more weight will be moved.....I refere you to the
concept of kinetic energy again, kinetic energy
increases due to an increase in accleration ie a
faster eccentric (momentum is the product of mass
and velocity, force mathematically can be
represented as a rate of change of momentum...as
momentum decreases so does velocity)...basically
what this means is that due to the decreases in
accelertion and momentum kinetic energy decreases
which means that it is harder to move an object...(I
hate kinematics!!!!!!)
in the previous example if individual no 2 were to
perform a set of 5 reps with a 2 second eccentric
and 1 second concentric then the amount of weight
that the individual will shift will be a lot more
than 300lbs.
...say someone performs a set of 10 with a speed of
3 secs per rep then the total TUT would be 30
seconds for that set...if an individual performed a
set of 5 with a 6 second speed, the TUT would be the
same....if strength improvements are to have occured
then the amount of time is a very important
factor... an increase in strength can only be
accurate if either the weight has increased with TUT
and reps the same... or if the load remains constant
and reps and TUT increased. But, if in a set TUT
(total not per rep) was the same, as does
load...however the reps increased then it may be
that an individual has actually regressed slightly
because per rep the amount of work performed hs
decreased to perform the rep....remeber the
accomodation principle mentioned a while ago....it
states that if a stimulus was to remain contant,
after initial adaptations accor then the amount of
gain declines over time....this is an example of
such....
...so then what is the optimal TUT... generally for
optimal muscle growth, a muscle should be under
tension for between 40 and 70
(approx)seconds....however this does not have to be
on a single set....
...absolute TUT is also a factor, so then 3 x 10
with a total TUT for the each set of 40 seconds
equals 120 seconds of total TUT, however 6 x 5 with
a TUT of 20 seconds for each set equals the same
absolute TUT of 120 seconds.
...Basically, monitor time, it can be extremeley
beneficial, by implementing a few of the ideas I
have mentioned here you add to the arsenal of
variety....periodise TUT like anything else!!!
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=18403)









Date: 12/21/01 03:04 AM
Author: dharmendra . c. desai (no profile)
Subject: thanks and please

Hi you geniuses angelface and animalmass you guys are truely
smart gentlemen . I would like to thank you from the bottom of
my heart mates. I live in India and hence do not have access
to many hard cover books. I do get magazines here but
generally after 2 or 3 months of them being out in the states.
hence those wonderful books you are talking about are
unreachable to me.I cant even order them because the dollor to
rupee conversion will kill me (i.e) I cannot efford them. I
cannot put into words how greatful i am to you people for
making me familiar with so much of scientific information uch
simplistic language this is an absolutly wonderful thread so
please keep it going.And please keep me informed I know you
guys are busy people but I also know you are good people.
(p.s like angel face said lets use this thread as a text book
, right so please do not fight over small misunderstandings
(specially you liquid ? relax mate what you and angle and
animal are saying is the same thing only you are putting it in
a diffrint language rather crude but different so dont fight
and keep me posted
THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH !!!!!!
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=21581)








Date: 12/22/01 03:57 PM
Edited: 12/22/01 04:03 PM
Author: Ramstein (no profile)
Subject: Question on theory

Do you think that the supercompensation theory just makes more sense for
hypertrophy training? I agree that the dual factor training theory
mentioned makes more sense in a performance based training protocol,
however, if muscle damage is the key to hypertrophy, then high
volume-minded workouts must be the key to success for bodybuilding. If
volume is the key to hypertrophy, then long brutal muscle damage
followed by "long" rest periods must be the norm, thus the four day
split workouts you see in Flex magazine etc..
I can attest to how effective dual factor theory training is for
increased performance, as can any other athlete who has had to run
sprints daily with great fatigue from previous practices. Despite the
accumulation of fatigue we got faster and in better condition. But if
you're saying that muscle damage is the key to hypertrophy, i just don't
see how this practice could make sense. It seems you would have to time
the wave right based on supercompensation. Your thoughts?
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=21811)








Date: 12/22/01 04:10 PM
Author: Ramstein (no profile)
Subject: Why you get bigger

two reasons: you get stronger OR you force your muscles to do more work.
Allow me to explain: you can get bigger (hypertrophy) by lifting the
same weight over and over again. For example, if you can bench press
200lbs 10 times in a set and keep increasing your number of sets using
the same weight with same reps you'd get bigger until you do so much
volume that you overtrain. for example I go to the gym and week 1 bench
200lbs 10 reps for 2 sets, 4 days later 10 reps for 3 sets, 4 days later
10 reps for 4 sets, etc.., Eventually the weight will have to increase.
You can also cause muscle growth by getting stronger without increasing
volume. That's why 1 set workouts also cause hypertrophy. For example if
I can keep adding weight to my 1 set of bench presses my muscles will
grow. right? two different forms of workouts to accomplish the same
thing--hypertrophy.
There is no disputing that progressive resistance seems to be most
correlated to muscle growth despite the volume used to achieve it.
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=21815)








Date: 12/24/01 02:29 AM
Author: dharmendra .c. desai
Subject: RE: A few question.

I agree that there are more than one ways to trigger hypertrophy. but
are both method volume and intensity equally effective.If one's
traning goal is the achievement of hypertrophy,and both methods are
supposed to be equally effective then isint it better to do the
minimum work required to induce hypertrophy.why do any more than
needed. I think that it is inmtensity which is the key to the
achievemennt of hypertrophy.since muscles fire on all or nothing basis
it is the intense contraction that is going to recruit more fibres.
not the prolonged one.Also while planning a traning regime is musclar
hypertrophy the only parogative to be used . what about the effects of
traning on the C.N.S and the endocrine system. how much considaration
do they deserve.withen the muscle cell there is hypertrophy of the
contractile elements as well as the mitocondria, are they corelated or
do they respond to different types of stimulee.what about connective
tissue and tendons we know there adaptation to stress is slower to
that of the muscles shold they not be considered to. what about
hyperplasia should that be taking into considaration.
(http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=21975)
 
Dschingis said:
Hi,

the links arent working.
The links are directed to the old board, which can no longer be accessed. I think the links were simply to the actual post that Phreezer copied over, so youre not missing out on any of the discussion.
 
Wow there is some good reading here, one of the only good places on the net.

It does get complicated but hey- its great.

:cool:
 
This site fully contains useful tips to develop our bodies.Its very useful for bodybuilders and gym masters and they students.
=======================================

john

Link Building
 
My name is Bryan Haycock. I’m posting this because I’ve noticed a few “HST” threads on the board. Although it may seem that I'm "new" here, I've actually been here for many years now. I am grateful to the owner of the then “Mesomorphosis” a great deal for his support early on in my writing career. I started posting here when it was Mesomorphosis.com. Anyway, I've been busy over at another website for the last year or so and haven't been around much.
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Taux calculette pret immobilier |
Calcul emprunt pret immo |
Taux interet calculette credit immobilier
 
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