Blacks 24 vs 29

[3ml]

Simply put, it's two molecules of HGH joined together with a weak ('non-chemical') bond.
It can be used as a marker of production/storage quality and effectiveness of the HGH. (the lower the better).


The above applies only to HGH - it gets complicated after that. For example you can have homodimer (two same molecules co-joined - like in HGH) or heterodimer (two different molecules cojoined (like in reverse transcriptase). There are even dimers, which are chemically bonded - usually with disulphide bridges, although other bonds are possible as well.

Thank you for the reply. So when your dimer gets high 3% I believe you stated for batch 31, how significant is the impact on the effectiveness of the GH?

What causes the dimer to vary? Is it part of the production process that they just can't quite get right?

 

[janoshik]

Thank you for the reply. So when your dimer gets high 3% I believe you stated for batch 31, how significant is the impact on the effectiveness of the GH?

What causes the dimer to vary? Is it part of the production process that they just can't quite get right?

I didn't test #31 yet, I'm not entirely sure what you mean.

The impact at single % is not that significant, but in the samples I've tested I've seen the levels of dimer range from undetectable to over 10%. At that point the effectiveness is lower.






Dimer formation is a part of the manufacturing process ( https://www.ipen.br/biblioteca/1999/07347.pdf an old, but quotable publication ). Getting rid of dimer by SEC is lengthy and costly.

Dimer, afaik, forms also during lyophilization.

Exicipients (ie non-active compounds in the HGH preparation, such as glycine) are imporant in preventing the formation of the dimer. (attached document)

 

[musclemoose]

Just finished 2nd week of #31's, mixing at 15iu, with 3iu/day. Will be getting IGF1 levels (baseline: 193ng/ml) Monday morning. Will post ASAP

Nice. Looking forward to seeing your results. I'll be starting the 31s in 4 months once i get through these 30s.

 

[musclemoose]

Thank you for the reply. So when your dimer gets high 3% I believe you stated for batch 31, how significant is the impact on the effectiveness of the GH?

What causes the dimer to vary? Is it part of the production process that they just can't quite get right?

There were tests by Jano on the 31s?

 

[3ml]

I didn't test #31 yet, I'm not entirely sure what you mean.

The impact at single % is not that significant, but in the samples I've tested I've seen the levels of dimer range from undetectable to over 10%. At that point the effectiveness is lower.

I apologize I miss typed I meant batch #21
Thank you for the info nearly 20 years with PED's myslef and always something new to learn

 

[bob hughes]

I didn't test #31 yet, I'm not entirely sure what you mean.

The impact at single % is not that significant, but in the samples I've tested I've seen the levels of dimer range from undetectable to over 10%. At that point the effectiveness is lower.



View attachment 77086


Dimer formation is a part of the manufacturing process ( https://www.ipen.br/biblioteca/1999/07347.pdf an old, but quotable publication ). Getting rid of dimer by SEC is lengthy and costly.

Dimer, afaik, forms also during lyophilization.

Exicipients (ie non-active compounds in the HGH preparation, such as glycine) are imporant in preventing the formation of the dimer. (attached document)[/QUOTE
So do you test samples sent to you by members, by sources, or your own stash? And do you do this for a living, or as a hobby?

 

[janoshik]

No problem, just confused me, as I've been getting a lot of questions about #31 as well

 

[janoshik]

So do you test samples sent to you by members, by sources, or your own stash? And do you do this for a living, or as a hobby?

I'm testing the samples sent by anybody - I'd say it's 50:50 samples from users and from sources.

I am owner of an analytical laboratory and do it for the living now.

Although the first year when I was testing stuff I did it for friends mostly for free.

 

[trackstar19]

I've been on 1/3rd vial of batch 31 for 6 weeks now and they feel good/strong. I'll test IGF-1 at some point but I'm not really a good reference point for that as I don't seem to convert much on my own. Unsure on the reasoning, it isn't the GH, perhaps my own autoimmune issues. For that reason I've began utilizing IGF-1 LR3 cycles alongside the GH to help try and get the hyperplasia I can't get with high dose GH since my liver isn't converting efficiently at all.

 

[bob hughes]

I'm testing the samples sent by anybody - I'd say it's 50:50 samples from users and from sources.

I am owner of an analytical laboratory and do it for the living now.

Although the first year when I was testing stuff I did it for friends mostly for free.

Cool good to know. Can you post the info for your lab or shoot me a p.m. if you want. With pricing for gh aas thx

 

[janoshik]

Cool good to know. Can you post the info for your lab or shoot me a p.m. if you want. With pricing for gh aas thx

sent you a pm

 

[miketee]

Just cracked my 5th vial of 31s treating as 15IU taking 4IU split daily. I’m losing 1# eod eating 1k in deficit. 6’2” 215# 28.8bf to start. Just started losing weight last week. Diet is 50/25/25 all complex carbs. Train 4x/week powerlifter routine burning 800 calories in 65 minutes. No cardio but 5 min 130bmp warmup.

 

[bob hughes]

sent you a pm

Thanks bro. One more question about the blacks, have they been consistently testing at 15 IU per vial across batches?

 

[janoshik]

Thanks bro. One more question about the blacks, have they been consistently testing at 15 IU per vial across batches?

yeah +- 1 IU. I don't recall there being any deviations worth noting

 

[3ml]

I've been on 1/3rd vial of batch 31 for 6 weeks now and they feel good/strong. I'll test IGF-1 at some point but I'm not really a good reference point for that as I don't seem to convert much on my own. Unsure on the reasoning, it isn't the GH, perhaps my own autoimmune issues. For that reason I've began utilizing IGF-1 LR3 cycles alongside the GH to help try and get the hyperplasia I can't get with high dose GH since my liver isn't converting efficiently at all.

Do you feel that the igf is helping?

 

[musclemoose]

I've been on 1/3rd vial of batch 31 for 6 weeks now and they feel good/strong. I'll test IGF-1 at some point but I'm not really a good reference point for that as I don't seem to convert much on my own. Unsure on the reasoning, it isn't the GH, perhaps my own autoimmune issues. For that reason I've began utilizing IGF-1 LR3 cycles alongside the GH to help try and get the hyperplasia I can't get with high dose GH since my liver isn't converting efficiently at all.

I read this on another site...

"It is, however, important to keep in mind that IGF-1 can carry some antagonist effects to HGH, which could make the use of exogenous IGF-1 supplementation ill-advised during HGH use for some individuals."

 

[gobigorgohome1218]

I read this on another site...

"It is, however, important to keep in mind that IGF-1 can carry some antagonist effects to HGH, which could make the use of exogenous IGF-1 supplementation ill-advised during HGH use for some individuals."

I don’t believe it’s actually an antagonist to GH but it does inhibit it’s natural release through negative feedback. Exogenous GH should still have it’s effects and be converted to IGF1. In terms of growth it’s IGF1 that we want

 

[mands]

I'm testing the samples sent by anybody - I'd say it's 50:50 samples from users and from sources.

I am owner of an analytical laboratory and do it for the living now.

Although the first year when I was testing stuff I did it for friends mostly for free.

WTH @jano I thought we discussed this.

mands

 

[janoshik]

WTH @jano I thought we discussed this.

mands

What's wrong?