Blood pressure

[Pantera]

Got high blood pressure? Increase cardio (no, walking your dog doesn't count), clean up your diet, get on bp meds.

Suspect that you've got sleep apnea? Do a sleep study, get a CPAP if advised. Force yourself to sleep with it every night.

Our health is the cost we pay to take gear, but let's try to be smart about it. Walking around with chronically high blood pressure is not worth the 7lbs of muscle you're going to gain during your next blast.

 

[Theworm]

I had to stop cycle, my bp was 150/90 on lisinopril, irbesartan and celery seee extract. Orals are by far the worse followed by deca for me. I’m doing what @malfeasance is doing I believe and dropping to test 100 a week.

Also doing cardio, dropping some extra fat and eating much healthier. Very frustrating. I’m 43 and know 2 people late 40s who just died and one friend 52 who had a major stroke... none of which touched steroids.

My main issue with doing this is, my TT will be around 600 and scared I’ll feel like crap and prob not grow much muscle?

 

[Monkipalo]

My main issue with doing this is, my TT will be around 600 and scared I’ll feel like crap and prob not grow much muscle?

your free test will still be at high end of the reference range or even above, you'll feel fine

 

[malfeasance]

I had to stop cycle, my bp was 150/90 on lisinopril, irbesartan and celery seee extract. Orals are by far the worse followed by deca for me. I’m doing what @malfeasance is doing I believe and dropping to test 100 a week.

Also doing cardio, dropping some extra fat and eating much healthier. Very frustrating. I’m 43 and know 2 people late 40s who just died and one friend 52 who had a major stroke... none of which touched steroids.

My main issue with doing this is, my TT will be around 600 and scared I’ll feel like crap and prob not grow much muscle?

I feel better on 100 mg a week, not worse. Within a few weeks, you ought to feel better, too.

As for growing muscle, I have no idea what stage of muscle you are in - have you won any contests? But it took me a lot longer to lose muscle than I thought. I actually cut my calories way back and stopped lifting weights in the gym for months to manage to drop a little muscle. That helped in getting my blood pressure down, too. I did not realize muscle was so "sticky" and honestly imagined I would look like a wispy, thin stick of a 12 year old girl within days if all I took was 100 mg a week.

That's not the way it works. Years and years of muscle built up, earned the hard way, just does not disappear overnight.

More than half a year later, when I started hitting the gym again, new guys were making comments about muscle and such, which cracked me up. If only they had seen me last spring.

127/81

I might need to lose a little more to get that number down. That is on telmisartan still.

My body wants to stick around 230 even when I am not eating much. While that is down from the 250s last spring, I need to work harder if I expect to cut more weight. Go on a real diet and all that. I need to find some motivation, and that motivation is easier to find when your blood pressure is 160/95 than when it is 127/81.

I had a very stressful event in my life a few weeks ago and decided to take my blood pressure - 179/108.

So I tried not to think about it for a while . . .

 

[Theworm]

I feel better on 100 mg a week, not worse. Within a few weeks, you ought to feel better, too.

As for growing muscle, I have no idea what stage of muscle you are in - have you won any contests? But it took me a lot longer to lose muscle than I thought. I actually cut my calories way back and stopped lifting weights in the gym for months to manage to drop a little muscle. That helped in getting my blood pressure down, too. I did not realize muscle was so "sticky" and honestly imagined I would look like a wispy, thin stick of a 12 year old girl within days if all I took was 100 mg a week.

That's not the way it works. Years and years of muscle built up, earned the hard way, just does not disappear overnight.

More than half a year later, when I started hitting the gym again, new guys were making comments about muscle and such, which cracked me up. If only they had seen me last spring.

127/81

I might need to lose a little more to get that number down. That is on telmisartan still.

My body wants to stick around 230 even when I am not eating much. While that is down from the 250s last spring, I need to work harder if I expect to cut more weight. Go on a real diet and all that. I need to find some motivation, and that motivation is easier to find when your blood pressure is 160/95 than when it is 127/81.

I had a very stressful event in my life a few weeks ago and decided to take my blood pressure - 179/108.

So I tried not to think about it for a while . . .

That’s great you feel better!

When I drop down to 100mg a week I feel tired and lack of energy. Maybe it’s a mental thing, not sure. Going to stay here for a while and add much more cardio, cut the salt, drop my huge intake of caffeine a bit and reevaluate. I want to live another 40 years.

 

[Pantera]

I feel better on 100 mg a week, not worse. Within a few weeks, you ought to feel better, too.

What are your total and free test levels at 100mg/week?

 

[Pantera]

your free test will still be at high end of the reference range or even above, you'll feel fine

Why would free test be at the high end of the reference range when total test is closer to the middle? ...Genuinely asking, I really don't know.

 

[Monkipalo]

Why would free test be at the high end of the reference range when total test is closer to the middle? ...Genuinely asking, I really don't know.

TRT lowers or even crushes SHBG. Low SHBG makes testosterone more freely available. Usually people on TRT have disproportionate amounts of free t compared to total, that's the case for me and most people that I've seen.

 

[Pantera]

TRT lowers or even crushes SHBG. Low SHBG makes testosterone more freely available. Usually people on TRT have disproportionate amounts of free t compared to total, that's the case for me and most people that I've seen.

Ah, makes sense. Does that mean that one can, within reason, maintain all their muscle mass on a TRT dose that puts their total test at ~600 ng/dL, as long as their free test is at the upper end of the reference range?

 

[Monkipalo]

Does that mean that one can, within reason, maintain all their muscle mass on a TRT dose that puts their total test at ~600 ng/dL, as long as their free test is at the upper end of the reference range?

Maybe. it's fairly easy to keep most of the muscle mass on actual TRT if you weren't blasting too hard. But don't take me too seriously, I'm a skinny kid.

 

[Cherokee]

I feel better on 100 mg a week, not worse. Within a few weeks, you ought to feel better, too.

As for growing muscle, I have no idea what stage of muscle you are in - have you won any contests? But it took me a lot longer to lose muscle than I thought. I actually cut my calories way back and stopped lifting weights in the gym for months to manage to drop a little muscle. That helped in getting my blood pressure down, too. I did not realize muscle was so "sticky" and honestly imagined I would look like a wispy, thin stick of a 12 year old girl within days if all I took was 100 mg a week.

That's not the way it works. Years and years of muscle built up, earned the hard way, just does not disappear overnight.

More than half a year later, when I started hitting the gym again, new guys were making comments about muscle and such, which cracked me up. If only they had seen me last spring.

127/81

I might need to lose a little more to get that number down. That is on telmisartan still.

My body wants to stick around 230 even when I am not eating much. While that is down from the 250s last spring, I need to work harder if I expect to cut more weight. Go on a real diet and all that. I need to find some motivation, and that motivation is easier to find when your blood pressure is 160/95 than when it is 127/81.

I had a very stressful event in my life a few weeks ago and decided to take my blood pressure - 179/108.

So I tried not to think about it for a while . . .

I can't lose a lb of weight, unless I quit training. If I keep lifting, those muscles.. not like I have a lot.. don't want to vanish

 

[Theworm]

Good question, can you grow muscle with a TT of 600 but higher free T? Maybe @PeterBond may know. I think some but def not a lot

 

[Pantera]

Good question, can you grow muscle with a TT of 600 but higher free T? Maybe @PeterBond may know. I think some but def not a lot

As a follow up question to this, @PeterBond , I noticed in another thread you said that to minimize cardiovascular risk factors, keep median total test at around 500. Are there any cardiovascular risk factors with having free test at the upper end of the reference range if our total test is at 500?

 

[PeterBond]

Good question, can you grow muscle with a TT of 600 but higher free T? Maybe @PeterBond may know. I think some but def not a lot

Depending on your training state, of course.

As a follow up question to this, @PeterBond , I noticed in another thread you said that to minimize cardiovascular risk factors, keep median total test at around 500. Are there any cardiovascular risk factors with having free test at the upper end of the reference range if our total test is at 500?

There is no data on that as far as I know.

 

[SonhoDourado]

I do a few things to keep mine in check. I run Liver and Organ defender 365/year by 5%nutrition. Quality ingredients clinically dosed. I also do beet root 2-3x a day. 1 cap before working out, helps to dilate blood vessels and helps with pump/circulation. After workout i steam room for 20 mins followed by a greens shake with beet root powder. After work i do yoga followed by another greens/beet root drink.I also run Nordic Naturals fish oil 3x a day. On good days im running 115/64- 122-70. Thats on TRT at a bodyweight of 200-205lbs. The lower my weight goes the better my BP gets. In my 40s now and prefer to be on the leaner side. My joints and health markers are so much better at 200lbs as opposed to 225lbs.

Whats helped me the most is only using stims pre workout. I train at 4a, the rest of the day no stims at all. That has been very helpful when i implemented that 3-4 years ago. I try to keep caffeine around 200-250mg as opposed to a "heaping" scoop of Hyde that was likely 500+mg

I have an Omron10 cuff and 2 Omron wrist BP monitors that i use daily. I've found them to be very accurate and a good way to stay on top of BP.

You really want to nip this in the bud asap. Sleep apnea is no joke and really puts you at risk for many health issues. I would have a sleep study done to see how bad it truly is and then get the appropriate CPAP machine set up.

Would drop the tren as well. No easy feat as i know its a super effective AAS for what i does. That being said when you've got a sleep disorder and elevated BP Tren is the last compound should be running.

Hope some of this helps out. Best of luck getting those issues resolved quickly.

 

[malfeasance]

The lower my weight goes the better my BP gets.

Yeah, especially with age, I am starting to think this is a truism.

My BMI still shows me as "obese," not just "overweight," even on TRT only, so I am going to try dropping some more weight for health reasons. I don't really see the point of competing again at my age (although I am glad I did it).

Before anybody posts "Oh, but BMI is bullshit, because it counts muscle," I will express that I am not sure it matters to your heart whether it has to supply muscle or fat.

Steroids raise BP.

Weight raises BP.

The converse also appears to be true, less weight and less steroids equal lower blood pressure.

I would review anything anybody has to show me that being "obese" on a BMI chart in one's 50s does not affect blood pressure as opposed to lowering BMI into the overweight or normal categories. Same for steroid use and dosages (outside of perhaps TRT testosterone).

 

[malfeasance]

While blasting 525 prop, 350 mast several months back, and running a body weight at about 250, BP would fluctuate constantly, bizarre readings of 150/65, things like that, and that’s with 40mg telmisartan/day. Back to cruise dose and cutting, down to 230 and BP is steadily 110/65, without telmisartan. Obviously both of those factors played a role. About to blast again soon, just test and primo, see if I can keep the BP under control with telmisartan and some propranalol, if need be.

Since this was almost three months ago, just inquiring into whether anything has changed.

 

[Bumpygooch]

Since this was almost three months ago, just inquiring into whether anything has changed.

Blast of 700 cyp and 600 primo, weighing 255 this morning. 40mg telmisartan/day, BP was 135/75 this morning……I’ll take it given those circumstances. Need to squeeze in more cardio.

 

[hometeam]

Yeah, especially with age, I am starting to think this is a truism.

My BMI still shows me as "obese," not just "overweight," even on TRT only, so I am going to try dropping some more weight for health reasons. I don't really see the point of competing again at my age (although I am glad I did it).

Before anybody posts "Oh, but BMI is bullshit, because it counts muscle," I will express that I am not sure it matters to your heart whether it has to supply muscle or fat.

Steroids raise BP.

Weight raises BP.

The converse also appears to be true, less weight and less steroids equal lower blood pressure.

I would review anything anybody has to show me that being "obese" on a BMI chart in one's 50s does not affect blood pressure as opposed to lowering BMI into the overweight or normal categories. Same for steroid use and dosages (outside of perhaps TRT testosterone).

Well the more you weigh, the more tissue you have that needs blood supply whether it's fat or muscle and the harder your body has to work to supply it with blood. That's true.

But there's more to it than that. How strong is your heart? An oversized heart (from steroids, sleep apnea etc) will raise your systolic pressure especially. How fast is it beating? How thick is your blood? High red blood cell count and diabetes will thicken your blood and you will need more pressure to move it. How narrow are your arteries? Plaque and stimulants will narrow your arteries. How bloated are you? Many things will cause you to hold extra water inside and outside of your tissues.

And lastly, the body has baroreceptors especially in the carotid artery, and they tell the brain unconsciously what your blood pressure is. The brain then has a lot of automatic processes diverting blood, changing heart rate, things kidneys do etc to keep it at a happy level. If you have hypertension these processes have probably failed to some degree.

When studying this in school I couldn't help but think a plumber would inherently already have a pretty good grasp on it.