[Bloodwork] Watson Test Cyp

[I_know_nothing]

I do find this whole TT/ blood serum discussion fascinating. I wish there was a one size fits all comparison we could use, but it does not look like it.
Perhaps if we did once weekly pins, and bloods at nadir levels 7 days later we could see some consistency.

you know, i absolutely 100% wish there was a one size fits all. that would make this entire debate so much easier. but for now the best to do it is to run watson at TRT doses and blast doses and see what your TT levels are for your body. Then use that as a basis of comparison for other UGL sources.

tbh once weekly pins with 500mg+ does not seem ideal. personally i prefer more stable blood levels. and nadir level readings would be smarter because we actually have studies to compare them to.

 

[Burrr]

My One Pharma calculations.
Bloods came in at 900ng/dl on 1.25cc's every 4 days

This works out to 2.15 cc's per week.
bloods at 900 divided by 4 (4x rule) = 225 mg per week
225 divided by 2.15cc's = 104mg/ml

 

[Kubrick]

I'm guessing astro and ms?

Astro and Naps (Geneza and Schering).

 

[I_know_nothing]

My One Pharma calculations.
Bloods came in at 900ng/dl on 1.25cc's every 4 days

This works out to 2.15 cc's per week.
bloods at 900 divided by 4 (4x rule) = 225 mg per week
225 divided by 2.15cc's = 104mg/ml

that makes sense. bloods for one pharma came back at 900 on 2.25 (~500mg?) a week?

 

[Kinikuman]

Just discussion brother. There might be a part if me that has a chip on my shoulder from a previous thread where one of your seasoned members called it a without a shadow of a doubt,written in stone hard "rule". When I simply asked him where he got that info, he flew off the handle and accused me of having some agenda. I wasn't even a dick about it, I just asked for a source to back his comment and apparently that's not allowed.

Sorry if I took any if that frustration out on you personally,

Fair enough. I'm after the truth. I'm here to protect my brothers. Nothing more.

 

[Kinikuman]

Astro and Naps (Geneza and Schering).

Astro hated by the board- Yes.
Naps - just not loved.

 

[Kinikuman]

i apologize too kinikuman, if i've come off as personally hostile to you. when i have people like jonnhy, cbs, weighted-chin, etc continuously attack me personally, sometimes that frustration comes out. if you're open to data and discussion i mean no personal attack on you.

i do have a few points of clarification then, i agree that split dosing will affect levels. then how come in that quote i linked last time there was a member trying to apply the 10x rule on it? some clarification would be really nice actually because it's starting to feel like "10x rule is accurate and shown to have worked" but then when opposing data or results come up we see..."well 10x rule doesn't apply when AI/HCG is used, when trt doses are used, when taken between x and y hours, etc etc etc"

I can't and won't speak for anybody else. They are all big boys.
For myself, my understanding is that the 10x rule is valid with some minor caveats. The true acceptable range is more like 7-10x - 10x is the target value. It applies best to supra-physiological doses (500mg+/wk). I'm really not sure about AIs but I think that HCG would skew the results, just like any other compound that may be present at time of test. This is why it is best to just just run one compound, pin once a week and draw 24 hrs after last pin for the most accurate peak values. My personal feeling is that anything over 500mg/wk that gets you less than 7x at 24 hrs after last pin is likely underdosed.

 

[I_know_nothing]

I can't and won't speak for anybody else. They are all big boys.
For myself, my understanding is that the 10x rule is valid with some minor caveats. The true acceptable range is more like 7-10x - 10x is the target value. It applies best to supra-physiological doses (500mg+/wk). I'm really not sure about AIs but I think that HCG would skew the results, just like any other compound that may be present at time of test. This is why it is best to just just run one compound, pin once a week and draw 24 hrs after last pin for the most accurate peak values. My personal feeling is that anything over 500mg/wk that gets you less than 7x at 24 hrs after last pin is likely underdosed.

thanks for the clarification. i appreciate you explaining your line of logic. one of the main reasons i do not support a "hard" 10x rule is because, like you said, several variables (hcg, AI?, other compounds, timing, dosing frequency) that could influence the peak levels. to apply a 10x rule that covers all variables seems a bit of a stretch to me.

it would be really interesting to see blast results on pharma test.

 

[vgc]

I do find this whole TT/ blood serum discussion fascinating. I wish there was a one size fits all comparison we could use, but it does not look like it.
Perhaps if we did once weekly pins, and bloods at nadir levels 7 days later we could see some consistency.

I'll bet you'd see more consistency in nadir levels. I could be wrong, but I'd imagine variable like absorption rate (depending on depot aize/location, blood flow, etc) would have a much greater impact on both the timing and amplitude of peak than nadir levels.