Bulking on GLP1 agonists

[MingDao]

I've seen multiple posts on bulking with GLP1 agonists, which on paper makes a lot of sense due to nutrient partitioning and better insulin sensitivty. I understand that for high responders bulking on these may be very hard, but I only have mild appetite supression and no nausea from either Sema or Tirz. Fairly confident I can be in a caloric surplus, especially with liquid carbs and extra fat.
Would be very interested in bulking experiences on AAS and GLP1. Did it meaningfully change the ratio of fat v muscle gain?

 

[egruberman]

Gotya, however if you can eat massive amounts of clean food, you could use that to your advantage and grow like crazy. Digestive health aside, having the appetite to chow down high calories of clean food is a gift itself, it’s whats limiting most people pros included in growing.

At my age, I'm not interested in getting that big, but I lament that I didn't get started sooner. After hitting my peak weight in my early 30s I got my shit together and started lifting after a couple years of losing weight. I mostly aimed for strength and was reasonably strong, but kept hurting myself and thought bodybuilding was bullshit. A couple years ago, I hurt myself with a deadlift and re-injured myself a couple times, so I started doing more hypertrophy rep ranges and isolation work which yielded surprisingly good results.

At this point, I'm sitting at around 8.5% which is as lean as I've ever been. I'm presently 175 and I'm aiming for something close to 200 lean. If I can accomplish that, I'm hoping that much lean tissue will match whatever my natural appetite for clean food is.

 

[explodingHeart]

At my age, I'm not interested in getting that big, but I lament that I didn't get started sooner. After hitting my peak weight in my early 30s I got my shit together and started lifting after a couple years of losing weight. I mostly aimed for strength and was reasonably strong, but kept hurting myself and thought bodybuilding was bullshit. A couple years ago, I hurt myself with a deadlift and re-injured myself a couple times, so I started doing more hypertrophy rep ranges and isolation work which yielded surprisingly good results.

At this point, I'm sitting at around 8.5% which is as lean as I've ever been. I'm presently 175 and I'm aiming for something close to 200 lean. If I can accomplish that, I'm hoping that much lean tissue will match whatever my natural appetite for clean food is.

Not that I'm saying it's a good idea to blast gear in your late 30s/40s, but you could always focus on getting bigger while under 10% BF. That way your body is much less stressed.

Recent data suggests that injecting GLPs and doing nothing else generally yields better health outcomes.

Could you show me?

Aside from internet tough guys feeling insecure over GLPs, is there any evidence that long term use of them for overweight people (most of the world at this point) is bad?

 

[egruberman]

Not that I'm saying it's a good idea to blast gear in your late 30s/40s, but you could always focus on getting bigger while under 10% BF. That way your body is much less stressed.

Oh yeah, I intend to get bigger, just not planning to get huge or compete. Couldn't in any case unless I have a couple surgeries to remove excess skin.

I have a blast coming up, but I'm late to the blasting and cruising party. In retrospect, I stayed "natty" way longer than I should've spending most of my 40s not making any progress in the gym for lack of recovery. In addition to having a great appetite for tossing back clean food, I also seem to tolerate big doses of anabolics as well.

Could you show me?

Aside from internet tough guys feeling insecure over GLPs, is there any evidence that long term use of them for overweight people (most of the world at this point) is bad?

Recently there's some news articles on GLP1 receptor agonists extending lifespan. That's based on a deduction rather than hard science. The presumption being that any given individual will live longer and be healthier with some caloric restriction.

However, there's a growing body of evidence showing benefits related to the metabolic effects of GLP1 RAs like better ASCVD outcomes, improvement in sleep apnea and so on, the kind of thing you would expect with when obese people begin to lose weight.

For example, they apparently help with addiction disorders:

The role of glucagon‐like peptide 1 (GLP‐1) in addictive disorders

Drug, alcohol and tobacco use disorders are a global burden affecting millions of people. Despite decades of research, treatment options are sparse or missing, and relapse rates are high. Glucagon‐like peptide 1 (GLP‐1) is released in ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There, the belief is that there is some effect on dopamine signaling which carries over to other addictive behaviors.

Various GLP1 RAs work to different degrees to treat NAFLD which is wonderful as that's becoming epidemic in the US.

Very quickly, there's also other potential benefits like lowered blood pressure, reduced risk of kidney disease, reduced cognitive decline, and lowered systemic inflammation.

If you care, I can find studies substantiating these claims, but I'd take them with a grain of salt. These drugs are worth many billions of dollars to the companies producing them and each additional medical use makes it easier for them to milk insurance companies for their extraordinary profit margins. It is quite literally a goldmine for them and so they are heavily incentivized to produce these studies.

Many of these benefits are simply the product of improved metabolic health, but others, like the addiction thing are a surprising and novel discovery. Incentives notwithstanding, the benefits appear plausible and the results simply need to be replicated on a larger scale.

In terms of harm, there appears to be none so far outside of the side effects associated with the use, mostly gastrointestinal effects. There are few compounds with as much attention as these have to establish safety and thus far nobody has discovered anything of merit.

The only thing I'm aware of is the almost universal elevation of resting heart rate by about 10 beats per minute, which may or may not have negative lon g term consequences. The only context that I'm aware of in which it matters is for endurance athletes. HR for a given power output also increases by 10 bpm which may impact absolute power output and potentially VO2Max. The easy work around would be to cycle on and off when needed.

 

[17SS]

I've seen multiple posts on bulking with GLP1 agonists, which on paper makes a lot of sense due to nutrient partitioning and better insulin sensitivty. I understand that for high responders bulking on these may be very hard, but I only have mild appetite supression and no nausea from either Sema or Tirz. Fairly confident I can be in a caloric surplus, especially with liquid carbs and extra fat.
Would be very interested in bulking experiences on AAS and GLP1. Did it meaningfully change the ratio of fat v muscle gain?

Heartburn city for me because Tirz slows down digestion quite a bit. Very easy to overeat if you ignore the full sensation and then pay for it the next day or so.

Possible to do it on a liquid diet. But with solid food it’s just not happening unless you’re a low responder.

 

[egruberman]

Heartburn city for me

A PPI like esomeprazole works for me when that happens.

 

[17SS]

A PPI like esomeprazole works for me when that happens.

Heartburn still occurs for me with Nexium if too much is eaten.

 

[egruberman]

Heartburn still occurs for me with Nexium if too much is eaten.

Same for me at some point, but I really have to try.

 

[brutalbuilt]

your not supposed to be eating a ton of food while on those compounds or you will have some serious side effects

its not meant to be played around with like that

 

[egruberman]

eating a ton of food

A "ton" is relative. In this context a relatively small portion of food might constitute "overeating".

 

[Sampei]

A PPI like esomeprazole works for me when that happens.

PPI are very bad for health would never use it long term and even short term better try to avoid it unless necessary, surely don't use it to counteract a side effect of another drugs, that's a slippery slope

 

[Sampei]

IMO a strong GLP 1 like SEMA would not be a good choice for bulking. The appetite suppression is strong. On the other hand some compounds that get called a GLP 1 like Tirz are actually a stronger GIP and can help a lot with insulin sensitization which would be very helpful for bulking. A lot of guys bulking increase their GH dose so the insulin sensitization will be very useful to counteract the GH desensitization. Tirz at a low or moderate dose does not severely affect my appetite and I think it would be well suited in a bulk.

I think the same man, I tried both sema and tirz for BG control, sema I can't eat shit.
Yeah after a while at 1MG the appetite suppression went away and I could eat again but the slow digestion I feel it's stronger on sema. On tirz instead I'm using 2.5mg for now and I feel fuller easier but not that much, I can still slam food if needed and the slow digestion is a lot less.

I need 5mg at least for the BG control so what I have done is I started using tirz well before my bulk time, so when bulk time arrive I'll have 0 appetite suppression and hopefully lots of insulin sensitivity and great low BG so that I can start slamming food and grow good

I'll report back with my experience, maybe it will not work, maybe it will. I'm not sure but I like to experiment stuff myself and see how it goes.

 

[Eddie.]

PPI are very bad for health would never use it long term and even short term better try to avoid it unless necessary, surely don't use it to counteract a side effect of another drugs, that's a slippery slope

I'm taking PPI for 11 years straight. I know it's not the wisest thing and i've read plenty info on how you don't absorb micronutrients and minerals like zinc, magnesium, calcium, B12 etc but all these are checked and in great spot. Also i've read about potential kidney damage, my bloods are great but i need a ultrasound to be 100% sure. I've tried 5-6 times to stop it but withdrawl is a living hell. Why you think it's bad for health? Do you know anyone with actual problems caused by PPI? I know some people with 10 years+ and i recently met a friend's mother who's taking these for 25 years.

 

[Sampei]

I'm taking PPI for 11 years straight. I know it's not the wisest thing and i've read plenty info on how you don't absorb micronutrients and minerals like zinc, magnesium, calcium, B12 etc but all these are checked and in great spot. Also i've read about potential kidney damage, my bloods are great but i need a ultrasound to be 100% sure. I've tried 5-6 times to stop it but withdrawl is a living hell. Why you think it's bad for health? Do you know anyone with actual problems caused by PPI? I know some people with 10 years+ and i recently met a friend's mother who's taking these for 25 years.

Bro are you kidding? You just said it, the withdrawal is a living hell.

That's because of the PPI. All the other possible side effect are well documented. Go read some medical research about it, in the latest years the various national health organisation have suggested doctors to not prescribe PPI except for very serious reasons and try to use other medication.

PPI were the shit in the past but time has shown they are not good at all for long term use.

I'm on holidays don't have the patience to go search for the studies but Google will bring it to you easily with a quick search.