Caffeine + Albuterol combo burns fat without diet changes

[Arnold Strong]

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
Caffeine and ephedrine was an effective combination therapy for weight loss until ephedrine was removed from the market due to safety concerns. This study investigated the combination of caffeine and albuterol as a possibly safer alternative to ephedrine.

METHODS:
In a series of experiments using cultured adipocytes, rat models, and humans, the effects of caffeine and albuterol on lipolysis, metabolic rate, food intake, and body composition were evaluated.

RESULTS:
Both caffeine and albuterol enhanced lipolysis in cultured adipocytes. Acute treatment of humans with caffeine and/or albuterol increased resting metabolic rate. Longer-term studies of rats revealed a trend for increased metabolic rate with albuterol treatment. There was increased lean mass gain concurrent with decreased fat mass gain with caffeine/albuterol treatment that was greater than albuterol treatment alone.

CONCLUSIONS:
In rats, albuterol with caffeine produced significantly greater increases in lean body mass and reductions in fat mass without changes in food intake after 4-8 weeks of treatment. Since caffeine and albuterol are approved for the treatment of asthma in children and adolescents at the doses tested and change body composition without changing food intake, this combination may deserve further exploration for use in treating pediatric obesity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26239482

 

[Sworder]

Dieting itself causes overeating - its the body's natural reaction to chronic lack of food

Excessive cardio can cause negative metabolic adaptations (10-15% decrease), which means you need to eat less than expected to maintain after dieting - making maintenance more difficult.

Diet + cardio has been the traditional recommendation for decades - now go look at the obesity statistics, specifically those on people who have dieted and FAILED to maintain the results for the medium-long term.
Spoiler alert: the statistics indicate that diet + cardio causes people to overeat as well.

What are you saying exactly and how does it apply?
Carb cycling is used by body builders for a reason, instead of the "low carb" diet there is a huge difference in weight loss.

 

[Docd187123]

What are you saying exactly and how does it apply?
Carb cycling is used by body builders for a reason, instead of the "low carb" diet there is a huge difference in weight loss.

He's saying a diet and cardio isn't enough to keep the weight off long term. You need actual, permanent, changes in your lifestyle and eating habits.

 

[Sworder]

He's saying a diet and cardio isn't enough to keep the weight off long term. You need actual, permanent, changes in your lifestyle and eating habits.

I don't think that is what he was stating, but I will re-read and await a response. I typically tell people that if it takes 2 years to get to a level of obesity it can take as long to reverse it. A lot of ppl I know get fat then cut the weight. Rinse and repeat. I believe the lifestyle change is what is needed but like I said I don't know what he was stating.

Edit: Don't see that statement being made.

 

[MrRippedZilla]

What are you saying exactly and how does it apply?
Carb cycling is used by body builders for a reason, instead of the "low carb" diet there is a huge difference in weight loss.

In response to Mike's point about stimulants causing overeating, my point was that EVERYTHING required to lose fat eventually causes overeating.
And, as Doc said, permanent habitual changes are the only way (for now) to get around this.

I'm not entirely sure how your comment about carb cycling is remotely relevant to the ability to MAINTAIN fat loss long term?
Carb cycling results in better weight loss ratios because the scheduled high carb days allow glycogen to be replenished and spare muscle loss (plus psychologically high carb days make us feel good) - that's it.

 

[Sworder]

In response to Mike's point about stimulants causing overeating, my point was that EVERYTHING required to lose fat eventually causes overeating.
And, as Doc said, permanent habitual changes are the only way (for now) to get around this.

Gotcha!

No, carb cycling isn't about maintenance. Thanks for clarification.

 

[Ozzy619]

He's saying a diet and cardio isn't enough to keep the weight off long term. You need actual, permanent, changes in your lifestyle and eating habits.

Exactly

 

[carhauler]

What's the word on keeping muscle while dieting?? Anybody see a difference in retaining muscle while dieting and using clen only?? I personally used clen only and i definitely seemed to burn mostly or all fat with it. But that is just me.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

In response to Mike's point about stimulants causing overeating, my point was that EVERYTHING required to lose fat eventually causes overeating.

Mike is talking about a rebound appetite that occurs immediately following CNS stimulant cessation. It's an insatiable appetite that lasts a few days and then it's over. It has nothing to do with calorie restriction or chronic lack of food although that could certainly exacerbate it.

 

[Mike Oxbig]

Bodybuilders by definition is anybody that exercises to increase performance or strength. So that overweight soccer mom by definition is equally body building if she is "walking the stairs" once a week. This goes to compare to the first time cyclers that start with a "cut cycle" because they spent the last 10 years overeating.

I think in general there is very limited drugs that increase lipolysis in a way that makes it "worth it."
And Cardio and diet should be number 1. Diet before cardio though.

Eat to supply your body with nutrients, not to please your mouth/stomach.

My post is in reference to the overall effectiveness of cardio as a general means of increasing metabolism. I think it more or less goes without saying that calorie restriction is the largest factor that will contribute to weight loss.

 

[Sworder]

Mike is talking about a rebound appetite that occurs immediately following CNS stimulant cessation. It's an insatiable appetite that lasts a few days and then it's over. It has nothing to do with calorie restriction or chronic lack of food although that could certainly exacerbate it.

You following me again?

 

[Docd187123]

My post is in reference to the overall effectiveness of cardio as a general means of increasing metabolism. I think it more or less goes without saying that calorie restriction is the largest factor that will contribute to weight loss.

But cardio really doesn't increase metbaolism. It only increases calorie expenditure while doing it. The increased metabolism throughout the rest of the day from cardio is basically negligible.

 

[Sworder]

But cardio really doesn't increase metbaolism. It only increases calorie expenditure while doing it. The increased metabolism throughout the rest of the day from cardio is basically negligible.

Yeah, it doesn't increase metabolism and honestly for people whom are sedentary I recommend changing their diet first and foremost permanently.

Gotta work with them and change it slowly so they don't give up. Start by spacing the meals out throughout the day and not 3 hours before bedtime. It's hard and that's why I would suck at personal training. You wanna help people more than they want help.

 

[Docd187123]

Yeah, it doesn't increase metabolism and honestly for people whom are sedentary I recommend changing their diet first and foremost permanently.

Gotta work with them and change it slowly so they don't give up. Start by spacing the meals out throughout the day and not 3 hours before bedtime. It's hard and that's why I would suck at personal training. You wanna help people more than they want help.

Diet and changing habits/lifestyle would be number one thing of course but spacing meals throughout will depend on the individual. Some may react better to smaller bigger meals while some may like more frequent smaller meals. There's no reason one can't eat before bedtime, I do it almost everyday lol.

 

[Sworder]

Diet and changing habits/lifestyle would be number one thing of course but spacing meals throughout will depend on the individual. Some may react better to smaller bigger meals while some may like more frequent smaller meals. There's no reason one can't eat before bedtime, I do it almost everyday lol.

Big meal before sleeping usually converts the calories especially fast carbs to fat as you are not using/burning them. It's one of the biggest things I have personally seen help people. Not doing a big meal before bedtime and if needed do a slow digesting meal oatmeal + protein.

You can do it because you work out, but it's very common for people whom are obese to eat huge high calorie snacks before bedtime. It helps sleeping too as the body induces "food coma."

I see it as a graph in my head of how much calories or food is currently circulating and how the body's response will be.

I usually drink juice throughout the day and that keeps a constant low spike of glucose to be readily available for my body. Drinking that gallon of juice (900calories) before bedtime would surely result in too much energy and it will convert to fat.

Many males that are obese have high e2 and a TRT dose can help during the phase of transitioning from obese -> normal/fit. Testosterone effects the lipolysis rate and the lack of testosterone can also lead to less energy levels throughout the day and becomes an evil circle.

 

[Docd187123]

Big meal before sleeping usually converts the calories especially fast carbs to fat as you are not using/burning them. It's one of the biggest things I have personally seen help people. Not doing a big meal before bedtime and if needed do a slow digesting meal oatmeal + protein.

There is nothing true in this statement sorry. It couldn't be further from the truth.

You can do it because you work out, but it's very common for people whom are obese to eat huge high calorie snacks before bedtime. It helps sleeping too as the body induces "food coma."

It has nothing to do with me working out but the fact I tailor my intake to my stats and goals. It just so happens that I finish training usually around 10pm so I eat a shit ton when I get home.

I see it as a graph in my head of how much calories or food is currently circulating and how the body's response will be.

It has to do with the macronutrients not the calories or amount of food.

I usually drink juice throughout the day and that keeps a constant low spike of glucose to be readily available for my body. Drinking that gallon of juice (900calories) before bedtime would surely result in too much energy and it will convert to fat.

Again, this is incorrect. You're severely overestimating the power of insulin. You think being hypocaloric but drinking 900cals of juice at bedtime will cause fat? There's more to it than that and the answer is highly unlikely as DNL is grossly overstated in the BB world. The idea humans turn carbs to fat is based on rat models mainly but rats process carbs very differently than humans do. DNL is a rare process in humans and for it to be an issue you would need somewhere along the lines of 700-900g of carbs a day for several days straight.

Here is but one study

Am J Clin Nutr. 1987 Jan;45(1):78-85. Links
Carbohydrate metabolism and de novo lipogenesis in human obesity.

Acheson KJ, Schutz Y, Bessard T, Flatt JP, Jéquier E.
Respiratory exchange was measured during 14 consecutive hours in six lean and six obese individuals after ingestion of 500 g of dextrin maltose to investigate and compare their capacity for net de novo lipogenesis. After ingestion of the carbohydrate load, metabolic rates rose similarly in both groups but fell earlier and more rapidly in the obese. RQs also rose rapidly and remained in the range of 0.95 to 1.00 for approximately 8 h in both groups. During this time, RQ exceeded 1.00 for only short periods of time with the result that 4 +/- 1 g and 5 +/- 3 g (NS) of fat were synthesized via de novo lipogenesis in excess of concomitant fat oxidation in the lean and obese subjects, respectively. Results demonstrate that net de novo lipid synthesis from an unusually large carbohydrate load is not greater in obese than in lean individuals.


^^^^ that's 2000calories of sugar, 500g, and the amount of fat synthesized through DNL was about 4g or a whopping 36calories worth of fat.

Many males that are obese have high e2 and a TRT dose can help during the phase of transitioning from obese -> normal/fit. Testosterone effects the lipolysis rate and the lack of testosterone can also lead to less energy levels throughout the day and becomes an evil circle.

I agree with this last part

 

[Sworder]

There is nothing true in this statement sorry. It couldn't be further from the truth.

Please explain what happens to the calories consumed at bedtime?

It has nothing to do with me working out but the fact I tailor my intake to my stats and goals. It just so happens that I finish training usually around 10pm so I eat a shit ton when I get home.

It has to do with the macronutrients not the calories or amount of food.

Macros turn into calories in the end.

 

[Sworder]

Going out for breakfast. Have fun explaining how a large calorie meal doesn't convert to fat, especially as we are presuming the person doesn't workout so muscle won't be built with it.

 

[Docd187123]

Please explain what happens to the calories consumed at bedtime?

It's not calories it's macros. Dietary fat will almost always be stored as fat. Carbs are converted to glucose and either used for energy or stored as glycogen. Very rarely will they ever be stored as fat. Protein will be stored as amino acids in the muscle or used for energy and turned to glucose if too much is taken in. You have a better chance of getting struck by lightening 3x than protein being stored as fat. And the disposition of these macros isn't affected by the time of day they're eaten. Only the quantities when compared to the individual's needs.

Do you think the body turns off once you go to sleep? Don't you even say recovery from training happens during sleep? Let me ask you this, do you really think someone eating a eucaloric or hypocaloric diet is going to get fat if they eat a big meal at night and why or why not?

Study where ppl's diets were changed so most carbs eaten at night:

• Obesity (Silver Spring). 2011 Oct;19(10):2006-14. doi: 10.1038/oby.2011.48. Epub 2011 Apr 7.

Greater weight loss and hormonal changes after 6 months diet with carbohydrates eaten mostly at dinner.
Sofer S1, Eliraz A, Kaplan S, Voet H, Fink G, Kima T, Madar Z.
Author information

Abstract
This study was designed to investigate the effect of a low-calorie diet with carbohydrates eaten mostly at dinner on anthropometric, hunger/satiety, biochemical, and inflammatory parameters. Hormonal secretions were also evaluated. Seventy-eight police officers (BMI >30) were randomly assigned to experimental (carbohydrates eaten mostly at dinner) or control weight loss diets for 6 months. On day 0, 7, 90, and 180 blood samples and hunger scores were collected every 4 h from 0800 to 2000 hours. Anthropometric measurements were collected throughout the study. Greater weight loss, abdominal circumference, and body fat mass reductions were observed in the experimental diet in comparison to controls. Hunger scores were lower and greater improvements in fasting glucose, average daily insulin concentrations, and homeostasis model assessment for insulin resistance (HOMA(IR)), T-cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol, high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol, C-reactive protein (CRP), tumor necrosis factor-α (TNF-α), and interleukin-6 (IL-6) levels were observed in comparison to controls. The experimental diet modified daily leptin and adiponectin concentrations compared to those observed at baseline and to a control diet. A simple dietary manipulation of carbohydrate distribution appears to have additional benefits when compared to a conventional weight loss diet in individuals suffering from obesity. It might also be beneficial for individuals suffering from insulin resistance and the metabolic syndrome. Further research is required to confirm and clarify the mechanisms by which this relatively simple diet approach enhances satiety, leads to better anthropometric outcomes, and achieves improved metabolic response, compared to a more conventional dietary approach.

Macros turn into calories in the end.

No they don't. Macros contain calories but don't get turned into them.

 

[Docd187123]

Going out for breakfast. Have fun explaining how a large calorie meal doesn't convert to fat, especially as we are presuming the person doesn't workout so muscle won't be built with it.

It is fun and took me all of 2minutes. Try a harder question next time but enjoy bfast

 

[Sworder]

No they don't. Macros contain calories but don't get turned into them.

Lmao okay sure. You might want to look into that.