Chemman's log

[CubbieBlue]

HCG is not treating me well. I can feel yesterday's shot wearing off a little bit but god damn it sucks so bad right now. It has made me extremely hyper-emotional. It actually feels WORSE than low T. I spent this whole morning lying in bed barely able to move in the worst depression I think I have ever felt. The littlest things are making me cry.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that my estradiol is probably spiked and I am feeling it big time.

I just feel damn hopeless right now. If I were to go on T shots I would need HCG eventually, but I can't even fucking handle a shot of 250 iu HCG without feeling terrible. I am better off doing nothing than using HCG. What a fucking curse.

I'm about to say fuck all of this and just ride it out and hope my body figures it out sometime in the next few years. Or maybe I could try tamoxifen as a last-ditch attempt to convince my worthless HPTA to wake the hell up.

Yeah, that is why I don't know why HAN has you on it. Your estradiol is probably sky high. You should probably add in an AI with it. I also think your dose may be a little low.

Why does he have you on the HCG anyways? A trial to see if you can do monotherapy?

I think you need to see someone who knows what the hell they are doing.

You can give tamoxifen a shot but I doubt it is going to do anything for you.

 

[1erCru]

Chemman just a thought. Is it possible your serotonin levels are low? Throwing dopamine / testosterone enhancing substances into a body with serotonin dysfunction might make things worse and have you chasing your tail for explanations. This is if you can isolate whether estrogen is causing these issues.

Im not saying go out and get on an SSRI or anything. But a lot of what you have described sounds like fibro type symptoms. In my case low serotonin causes all sorts of hideous symptoms including heightened sense of pain and a general feeling as though I am 110 years old and falling apart.

 

[chemman]

I suppose that it is possible that my serotonin levels are messed up. BUT my physical symptoms don't have a lot to do with pain/fibromyalgia. The physical stuff is reminiscent of arthritis: cracking stiff joints, bone popping and grinding. I have also lost a significant amount of body hair. Thankfully it is returning bit by bit.

Since this is fundamentally a brain problem, I would think that low dopamine would be more suspect, as it supposedly drives testosterone production in men. I do understand that an imbalance of any single chemical in my body could cause my symptoms, but the loss of body hair is clearly related to a severe drop in androgen levels.

I can only speculate as to why the HCG made me feel the way that it did. I can definitely say that my last shot is wearing off and I feel much better. Unfortunately, trt would require that I use hcg periodically, but I could probably only handle about 1 shot/week.

chem

 

[m_ob]

SSRIs killed my mood, sex drive, and overall life for the month I was on them. Immediately after becoming educated in their side effects and how often they are prescribed I stopped them. The doctor who prescribed them felt I wasn't giving them a chance lol..

 

[hardasnails1973]

Yes this is all speculation and may be every 3 rd day may be better or 125 ius a day may be better.
You are going to be driving your self crazy making your self worse then what you are trying to micromanage stuff that was my biggest down fall. Oh it could be no it could be that nope it this. I drove my self insane trying to ascertain what was going on because every thing is interconnected. it great that you are doing research but let the experts handle it. People jump from one thing to another and after while it gets to be the same thing over and over again people start. Start at the top of the chain and rule things out is option that should be done first and then go with what is screaming the most treat the symptoms tll the cause can be rectified. Its not rocket science. After learning more about the mental side of things I am really starting to look at things differently and looking at the pathology of things rather then ripple effect.

 

[chemman]

Yes the mental side of things is huge. As I gain more and more perspective on my situation, I realize that my problems STARTED mentally. That is probably the case for many of the young guys here.

 

[chemman]

Still in a holding pattern regarding TRT. Trying to avoid it if possible.

I've seen a little bit of progress since last week. I am still noticing more body hair coming back, which is a good sign. And as this happens, I notice that my arthritis and mood problems improve (but at a snail's pace).

I am still eating like a horse (at least 3,000 cal/day), avoiding stress as much as possible, and sleeping at least 10 hours/night in hopes that this will get my body to "wake up."

I am also experimenting with a beta blocker to help reduce the anxiety that is caused by low T and dealing with the stress of trying to reverse this problem.

 

[hardasnails1973]

using on drugs will only make issues worse since one of the side effects of betablockers are decreased libido.
Look it up your self.. Let your body go back on its own self medicating is only making things worse and opening up pandoras box. You got problems start meditaiton and learning to respond to stress appropriatelty. Untill I did I did not start healing. I had low tesoteterone, low adrenal low thyroid, messed up gut, candida, you name it, but mentally I never gave up hope and practice medtiaiton for over several months untill I completely retrained my HPTA and how I responded to situaitons.

 

[chemman]

Beta blocker was prescribed by GP for anxiety and resulting high blood pressure. Something has to be done to break the cycle.

I am not worried about libido loss right now because I DO NOT HAVE A LIBIDO TO LOSE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

So tell me, if you re-trained your HPTA, why on earth are you on TRT?

 

[hardasnails1973]

Because my body was destroyed from a prolong infection that went on for over 5 years taxing the hell out of my body when get enough money I am going to do nutra eval and estrogen metabolism test to finally put icing on the cake. I retrained my brain to respond to the stress and how to cope with things. Could I come off TRT probably but now being stablized SCREW THAT.. When ever my girl did not call me I would start having anxiety but after long and self hypnosis techiniques I have been able to calm my self down to reassure that she was just busy and will get back to me soon. When my thyroid went down that was a whole other issue because first signs when thyroid goes out Ihave severe unexplained anxierty and also I can not sleep at night. Why am I on TRT beause the dr did not listen to me and told me it was all in my head now I see the SO'sB in seminars that I goto. they see the size of me from when I was 160 lbs soaken wet from 235 in 9 months due to intestinal infection ripping my insides completely apart. I still ca not not eat like i want to but I am working on things slowly. I lowered my tesosteorne down to 80 mgs a week and getting better results. I am up about 20 lbs of muscle since your last seeing me and strength is going up. Missed 405 on bench other day at barely 205 with extremely low body fat. When I was benching 405 for reps my total T was only 400 and that was with out TRT but my adrenals had not been wiped out but more so I was in the alarm stage. So all this idea of being 800 total test is bull shit to feel good. My last reading was 525 at the trough with shbg 35 so this goes to show you do not need alot of testosterone to function.

 

[chemman]

520 at the trough....BUT your body is getting exposed to higher levels than 520. I'm sure that those effects can carry over.

In my case, I am hitting 280 at my PEAK. And that was a day when I didn't feel quite as terrible. Just imagine how low I was when all of my body hair disappeared.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Even when I was bodybuilding my levels were at 500-600 ng/dl and I was a freaken beast !! and ate 5000 calories a day no cardio maintained 6% BF year round at 210. My nick name was "Freak". Yes but even when my levels where 315-350 I was able to function incredible well that was before my adrenals crashed then thyroid took a hit. If a person has good adrenals and thyroid they can function off of 350-400 and be FINE ..

 

[chemman]

If a person has good adrenals and thyroid they can function off of 350-400 and be FINE ..

I am pretty sure that there are many people out there who would question this statement. And as always, it comes down to the person's individual biochemistry. I know from previous bloodwork that these T levels are far below my genetic setpoint.

Yes, some men have endocrine systems that function best at TT = 350-400, but I would guess that they are in the minority.

 

[hardasnails1973]

I am pretty sure that there are many people out there who would question this statement. And as always, it comes down to the person's individual biochemistry. I know from previous bloodwork that these T levels are far below my genetic setpoint.

Yes, some men have endocrine systems that function best at TT = 350-400, but I would guess that they are in the minority.

most athletes are about 350-450 tops NFL and boxers. I have seen documentary on this and they perform quite well. I hoinesty think that our bodies as generations changes that our body are adapting to lower T levels so going higher then biological thresh hold is going to make more issues.

 

[chemman]

most athletes are about 350-450 tops NFL and boxers. I have seen documentary on this and they perform quite well. I hoinesty think that our bodies as generations changes that our body are adapting to lower T levels so going higher then biological thresh hold is going to make more issues.

Can you please point me to this "documentary"?

 

[hebsie]

Can you please point me to this "documentary"?

...are you familiar with Chris Byrd (former WBO and IBF heavyweight champion) and the 'Sport Science' series that aired two years ago on Discovery Channel?

Watch episode #7 --

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg4sTHldr2o]YouTube - FSN Sport Science - Episode 7 - Myths -Chris Byrd (Pt 2)[/ame]

Pay close attention to his Testosterone levels (starting at approx 4:40). Chris tested twice, once at 325 ng/dL and another at 462 ng/dL. Not so 'great' for a pro boxer, eh?!?...hebs

 

[hardasnails1973]

Bingo !!

 

[chemman]

...are you familiar with Chris Byrd (former WBO and IBF heavyweight champion) and the 'Sport Science' series that aired two years ago on Discovery Channel?

Watch episode #7 --

YouTube - FSN Sport Science - Episode 7 - Myths -Chris Byrd (Pt 2)

Pay close attention to his Testosterone levels (starting at approx 4:40). Chris tested twice, once at 325 ng/dL and another at 462 ng/dL. Not so 'great' for a pro boxer, eh?!?...hebs

Yup. I wonder if all of his training changes how his body metabolizes testosterone...We could start a new thread on this topic.

But as far as my situation goes, this video doesn't mean squat!

One important part of good medicine is combining signs and symptoms with blood results. How do yout think doctors performed their duties before all of this access to fancy laboratory diagnostics? SYMPTOMS. Does Byrd have any signs and symptoms of T deficiency? Absolutely not. Do I have signs and symptoms of a testosterone deficiency? YES!

Each man is different regarding what his body needs to function physically, emotionally, sexually, etc. One man's 950 is another's 325.

I think I'm having a HAN moment...BIOINDIVIDUALITY.

 

[m_ob]

Haha, Biochemistry or individuality is not just a HANS theory. It's widely accepted and proven fact. No one has the same genetics, let a lone epigenetics, therefore no one has the same biochemistry.

 

[CubbieBlue]

...are you familiar with Chris Byrd (former WBO and IBF heavyweight champion) and the 'Sport Science' series that aired two years ago on Discovery Channel?

Watch episode #7 --

YouTube - FSN Sport Science - Episode 7 - Myths -Chris Byrd (Pt 2)

Pay close attention to his Testosterone levels (starting at approx 4:40). Chris tested twice, once at 325 ng/dL and another at 462 ng/dL. Not so 'great' for a pro boxer, eh?!?...hebs

It might be worth it to point out that he is an athlete that experiences blunt force trauma to his head during every single competition and every single bout. MIght be why his T levels are as low as they are. Just sayin'.