Clenbuterol overdosed - feel like dying, need opinions ASAP

[madmailman96]

Ok so long story short I took .80 mcg of clen this morning, pill form but I think it was extremely overdosed. My resting heart rate is 120 bpm and Ive vommited 4 times, also starting to get pale and feel like passing out. If I went to the hospital and got a beta blocker would this help? If not what do I do, I took the Clen at 8am eastern this morning.

 

[Dr JIM]

Don't know what you took but I let one of the ED docs take a look at ya, esp w those symptoms.

 

[BBC3]

Perhaps LITIGATION is in order. Meaning you MAY be able to SUE THEIR ASSES..

I am backing up to add this FIRST. ON DOCS AND HOSPITAL POLICY. They can be assholes, and moreso at public hospitals. The perk is that there may be better help after hours for specialty issues. The minus is they might kill ya. So which did you go to? They will treat illegal drug drug users a bit worse sometimes depending on circumstance, and sometimes prescription abusers too. Politically, prescription is "substance induced" and a trip to rehab. Illegal/ellicit is a crackhead whom might wind up in jail one way or the other. But in your case you are in the middle as you are dealing with a legally prescribed substance to which has legitmate medical use. So there is some protection afforded in that sense. Regarding the legality of reporting, I believe you have some privacy, but on the other hand they can report issues that are related to you if outside YOUR scope (speculation - all states are different). If you are hurting others or others are hurting you would be a reason. TECHNICALLY with regard to legal, I am not sure if you actually POSSESS any drugs to go to jail for. I AM NOT DISCOURAGING BRINGING YOU STASH. I note that no one told you to take with you what you had taken. This could have been critical for them to analyze if you were unconscious.!!! Or really just to confirm what you have if neccessary. Guys, you should probably best bring yur stash to the hospital, or at least a good secure sample for analysis if necessary when its a matter of life and death. How do you even know you had clen? You would think they could analyze urine and see, but sometimes no. I had an issue once that landed me in the hospital and the found everything in urine including NORMAL amphetamine levels from Adderall, but they came back complaining they were finding a "stimulant or amphetamine" - I dont recall the exact verbage that they could not figure out. I later realized it was probably Clen from a puff or two on an asthma inhaler the week prior. They did not know what it was!!...

With all that said, and some docs being cocks. Some head ER nurses for that matter are CUNT GALORE. And thats not the James Bond character. You would be surprised how much clout one of these sorry cunts has and a power trip indeed. Shitty docs are LAZY and give them too much responsibility and authority. So you got sent home huh, and no heart attact at that time obviously. SOUNDS TO ME LIKE A JUICY LAW SUIT.!!!!!! Keep in mind suits are only worth damages X's so much generally, but you never know about state law, state case law, and TECHNICALLY how they may have failed you and how GROSS the NEGLIGENCE WAS. Cause if you told them what you took, and they sent you home to have a heart attack... HMMMM. they rushed ya back, you told them the drugs, and they sent ya home that night??!! Depending on YOUR DAMAGES, could be theirs. Keep in mind you are going to find out the hard way that it takes 100K to sue a hospital, but I WOULD SEEK COUNCIL... There is simply no escape and their culpability is CLEAR. You are most likely a young healthy male so they cant go pointing the finger at pre-existing or unknowns.

Back to where I initially started typing this post.... If it makes ya feel any better, I am pretty sure I have had a few undiagnosed heart attacks myself - . I think John Cougar Mellencamp layed around on the floor of his travel trailer with a nice blue tint to his skin for about 3 days vomiting between cheap beers and a pack of cigs an hour prior to going to the ER and being diagnosed as having a heart attack. For that matter, he may not have been diagnosed till a few weeks later on a routine trip. I dont recall. But the key I recall is that they diagnosed him by poor EKG which is indicative of tissue death of heart muscle measurable by electrical signal failure as nerves are no longer firing from those areas of the heart (I think). So I hope you did not wind up with long term damage. Let us know what they say about the EKG. At twenty I doubt you had any blockage even if genetic, and probably an all "Neuro-type" heart attact I call it. I used to like to simulate that on myself in my younger day.. LOL

Personally, I like to keep the antidote around for anything I am taking. I know beta blockers work on amphetamines, but I think Clen operates on a different nerve path/mode of action. I know its late. But I would like to know what is the antidote for Clen? No one ever said? Did the hospital know it was clen when they were talking BetaBlocker? Anyone know which is best for future reference in case I ever dare?

Another thing. My experience with Clen is limited, but actually I have used as asthma inhaler. I noted the burst dose was a very small amount and measured in MCGs. I also read the warnings about potential heart stopping and all - thus I have always had a profound respect and never tried for weight loss. But one thing has always perplexed me is WHY DO THE ORAL DOSES SEEM SO HIGH. I seems like the liquid clen is dosed in Milligrams to my recollection?? So could someone please explain that? Cause we are talkin drops to oceans if I read it right!!!!

It also seems like clen has a pretty good half life to my recollection, which would mean that if they gave you beta's - the drugs may have worn off prior to the effects of the clen. Plus you really dont know how much was in the gut still depending on what you ate..



Anyway, hope you are ok and check back for latest please let us know...

Went back to the hospital to talk to the doc about the meds you told me about. When I got there he said he wanted to take my blood again and they did, tests came back about an hour later and I have very elevated Troponin levels so they immediately ran more tests and have now informed me I had a mild heart attack. I'm spending the night at the hospital tonight while they run more tests but this sure was one hell of a way to figure out not to use clen.

 

[BBC3]

The bottom line is that there is no need to "call the cops". They are street sweepers who have a NASTY job that deserves respect. But their prime social directive is to MITIGATE IMMEDIATE SOCIAL/PUBLIC RISKS - usually. So unless you are a threat at this time.... You are a victim actually. You need medical help. Society will deal with this technically depending on the drugs - whether presciption, illegal/ellicit/or illegally possesses controlled/prescription, or COMBO. The matrix there will determine the outcome. lightest case you are a prescribed negligent OD sent home with new orders to TAKE AS DIRECTED. Most of the time, even in illegal/ellicit use, they are just gonna keep you overnight for a shrink to cousel you, at which time you could potentially dig yourself a hole. Start talking prescription hot topic, and they will stop looking at you, keep writing, and send you to rehab. Start talking blow, crack, meth, and they will be very interested with concern as it is a social risk you have proven. Start talking your case which is a common prescription drug (which I dont think is controlled DEPENDING on the FORM) illegally obtained, and you are somewhere in the middle with a rehabs trip possible - depending on hospital policy and whether or not they follow those up with counseling.

This thread peaks me emotionally somewhat for reasons I wont go in to. Someone mentioned $$ vs. legal earlier. I think citing they were just there to $treat you$... You have to be careful with public and teaching hospitals cause they can have an OVERINTEREST in getting your INSURANCE Money$. They tent to cover paying patients... It can sometimes MISGUIDE their judgement. Especially in cases where students/residents are invovled - if its gonna be an issue. The real MDs at these hospitals can sometimes be pretty lazy and uninvolved.

We ED docs or nursing staff do not report patients to LE whom have "over-medicated" themselves or "overdosed" unless it is in your best interest. Thus if we believe your ingestion was a suicide attempt the police are only then contacted to file an EOD (emergency order of detention). Since this document is a medical-legal writ a judge must certify it within a reasonable time period (less than twelve hours in most states) The EOD is typically "active" for no more than 72 hours and an psychiatry evaluation must occur within the "actionable period". The only other exceptions (reported by the medical examiner as suicide-homocide) are when someone consumed a lethal quantity of an illicit drug. If several more deaths have occurred that exceed the "community norm" an inquiry may commence to determine the causation. Such as which transpired in NewYork several years back, where routine heroin users were dying at an extraordinary rate. They prosecuted the dealer for homicide because the stuff was highly concentrated "black tar heroin" and he "should have know deaths were possible". Whatever you do TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT the drug or drugs ingested.
Because doing otherwise can lead to your DEATH! For instance taking as little as THIRTY of ES TYLENOL can cause liver failure!
Lastly the police have "absolutely no interest in creating a conflict within the doctor-patient relationship especially an adverse one".

 

[BBC3]

He has had UGL and God knows what was in it. Benzo is a BAD IDEA as no one has even asked WHAT ELSE he may have taken. Benzos only potentially alleviate the anxiety associated with this scenario and could even mask a physical issue ensuing. Whenever you guys see all these actors ODing in their sleep, you will note a Benzo is ALWAYS involved. Just bad interaction with too much, or what they might have to give in near future if its determined he took something else..

Try a benzodiazepine like Valium, Xanax or Ativan.

 

[BBC3]

Probably fluid on the heart from poor function too long, and probably resulting from stated heart attack unfortunately. I experienced that one of the only times I tried blow in my life over 20 years ago... I was your age and thinking I would tell the hospital I was pulled over by gangsters and forced to snort. I have some sympathy for your age / perspective. Good thing you went back.

Update today, deep chest pains are gone but they have been replaced with difficulty breathing and swallowing and it feels like there is a weight on top of my heart. Any opinions?

 

[BBC3]

there are many permanent heart damages resulting from "heart attacks" due to NON-BLOCKAGE related incidents. The bottom line is he told them he took a drug which probably carrier a BLACK BOX warning. This means he could die. Its not their duty to decide what his odds are and corrolated in with potential ensuing, or genetically bias unknowns. They should have measured the blood levels, considered the physical symptoms with relation, and just probably should have kept him knowing clenbuteral implications and that potential unknowns existed from UGL or raw ingrediet self dosing. If an oral dose was advised they maybe should have even considered stomach pumping/charcoal - but they did not understand the delivery system as most likely large cap with fillers. - Hospital negligence due to historical negative steroid propaganda.! But none the less its probably a good thing you barfed that morning as you were clearly having a reaction to clen, or you were overdosed by ugl. With that said, authorites may well be interested in where you got it.... It would not suprise me to see the "hospital" wanting a sample for analysis. For both "silent" law enforcement reporting (to put UGL on shit list), as well as setting up their own potential defense as they will try to slither out blaming MANUfacturer. FYI, thats not applicable.

DID THEY GET A FINAL EKG prior to releasing you....![/B

How old are you mate, any other medical problems?
How "high" was your troponin, get me a value?
Do you have any "EKG changes"
Did they do an EKG and troponin on your first visit?
PLEASE ask them these three questions and let me know.
Amphetamine like drugs only rarely cause "heart attacks" (where the muscle dies through and through) unless you have underlying ASCVD. They certainly cause "tropinin leaks" which is thought to be due to VASOSPASM. Interestingly since Clen has a half life approximating THIRTY SIX HOURS, the spasm could be more prolonged resulting in an increased probability of a 'leak" occurring. Cocaine associated chest pain is a classic example of vasospasm seen in the US, but with a half life around one hour and "active metabolites", the symptoms typically persist only a few hours. Thus a 2-4 hour "rapid rule out", being most reliable with fixed coronary lesions, would be reasonable with cocaine yet maybe not Clenbuterol!
My gut tells me their being overly cautious (unless you have other medical problems) because you had a "bumped troponin". Nonetheless, I'm glad you returned and are being more throughly evaluated.
Please follow up with us so we might ALL learn some thing (I already know considerably more about Clenbuterol than before you ran your post)!
Best regards
Jim

 

[BBC3]

One finally on LEGAL. There is PROTOCOL and THAT IS ALL. This is determined based on what YOU Told them, and what the PROTOCOL merited they investigate further defining the course of action. Any deviation from is a failure on their part. They should not speculate against determined data/facts. YOU are a patient to be TREATED for an emergency medical condition. Whether or not you have BC/BS DOES NOT MATTER. So if you did have a heart attach after you left, you should get legal counsel and consult and let the professionals determine what the other so called professionals may or may not have done wrong. But something does not sound right. You either withheld information from them or this thread, or they messed up. Folks should know that CIVIL LEGAL resititution for errors on the part of docs and hospitals simply does not happen short of a maiming or death. Due to the legal expense to patients atty are high as shit. Lots of time, lots of expense for experts (other docs they have to bus in from out of town cause docs wont rat on each other locally), and the general homework done. The cost is about 100K and to have 6 or 9 of 12 in a jury move against is a big expense to have an unsuccesful legal suit.

With that said. Most folks dont realize that it is next to impossible to recover damage$ from a doc or hospital - civily speaking with regard to potential litigation. Hospitals and doctors are afforded the highest levels of civil legal protection due to the inherent nature of the business. There is a LOT OF GRAY here.
(1) You have legitimate folks who were negligently injured by a doc or hospital,
(2) You have scammers that are trying to make a buck,
(3) You have those that die with real conditions and real complications and where the particular doc may or may not have been the best at what he does, and where the SUM picture of what is going on just rendered the situation irreparble. (Gray as $HIT)

Number three is really USUALLY the fair ground and part of life. Society cant reap a bazillion super talented MDs and have none that are sub-par. Societh cant afford to have enough staff, enough and top of the line equipment everywhere. And Society cant control what is going on inherently biological with patients. Take a brain surgery to remove a tumor. The proceedure is stated as "risky". What this does not tell you is the command decision the doc must take once in there as to whether or not he is going to attempt to pull on a tenticle from a tumor going way down in the brain, how hard he will pull, and whether it will release. So depending on his skill and DECISION, he may or may not get it out without killing ya. We just pray we have a doc who does not have the shakes from his fifth of scotch the night before...! Thats homework but still.... TAKE a skilled surgeon on a routine operation that clips a nerve or blood vessel that he did not expect to see in that area, but some people have more and less, and in odd areas. Would a better doc have proceeded in a manner that would have caught this, or was it unavoidable, or just pot luck with incision game plan? THE ISSUES trickle all the way back down to the exam table, and whether or not that see merit for necessary diagnositcs, or prescribe accurately. Whether THE PATIENT FOLLOWS UP as directed, OR EVEN TAKES the meds. AND ALL ALONG there is the matter of, if he does not tug on that tumor hes gonna die regardless - but how fast? AND do the conditions merit a certain drug as best protocol, or appropriate risk.!?

The first two above are the far sides of the spectrum, number three is the area where number one and two are DEFINED. Number three is also what creates the condition of the ATTORNEY.

With good docs you should hear phrases like "considering this, I think we could/should try this", "Call the office or ER if you notice of problem", "there are drug options, heres what they are", "here is my game plan and why" on a laymonized skim to patients needs ability to understand, and verbally affirm drug allergies/conditions with chart/other drugs at that time, and "here are the expections AT THIS TIME" (which is kinda where the water turns to murk even with good ones). They get paid well enough, and they are human too. So you have to let them know you care too sometimes.

 

[BBC3]

Funny how Jim's interest and detail seem to decay about here.. Perhaps he is indeed an MD..... Or is it just a student having discussions with peers and getting your first crash course in C.Y.everyone around you's A.....

Don't know what you took but I let one of the ED docs take a look at ya, esp w those symptoms.

 

[Dr JIM]

An attorney already, oh please! How about a final diagnosis before we parlay presumptive conclusions. Don't you want a little more information FIRST, like age for instance!

 

[Sworder]

He has had UGL and God knows what was in it. Benzo is a BAD IDEA as no one has even asked WHAT ELSE he may have taken. Benzos only potentially alleviate the anxiety associated with this scenario and could even mask a physical issue ensuing. Whenever you guys see all these actors ODing in their sleep, you will note a Benzo is ALWAYS involved. Just bad interaction with too much, or what they might have to give in near future if its determined he took something else..

Benzo are the nastiest drug created on this fucking earth I swear to Muhammed. I have seen so many people go down the shitter because of them. They are the most addictive(physically which is the worst imo as there will be an underlying psycho dependance also) drug you can get and they come in a subtle form of a pill. Prescribed by some doctor which administers them as if they are tylenol. My friend was prescribed some valium for anxiety because he was having rough financial times as well as problems with his wife. My question is: isn't it healthy to be anxious at those times?? Isn't that normal? It would be abnormal if one was the calmest mo fo in town during those circumstances but that is how the doctors want it. Doesn't make sense to me, 1+1=3?
Doctor gave me Xanax because I have sleeping problems, after 3 days I felt my body craving that so I stopped. Slept 3 hours that night and had to work next morning, was restless and felt like shit. So now I just use melatonin and some unisom.

On the heath ledger cocktail situation, enough alcohol mixed with Benzo will knock you out as well, either total blackout or death.

 

[Dr JIM]

Several post commentary hum, so BBC unless your a physician, attorney or actively involved in LE what makes your OPINION more credible than anyone else's?

 

[Sworder]

Several post commentary hum, so BBC unless your a physician, attorney or actively involved in LE what makes your OPINION more credible than anyone else's?

Dr JIM you are very knowledgeable but there are so many MDs that hide behind their title and think they know/act like they know more than you when the reality is opposite(more specifically on AAS). I think all opinions weigh the same on meso, it's the content that determines the credibility. Source-check or question any remarks which may seem false. That's how I roll!

 

[Dr JIM]

BBC, my "interest in what.detail" please be specific (as you can be)!

 

[Dr JIM]

Swordman
Seems reasonable to me since especially your commentary is based on your own personal observations rather than utter conjecture and does not periodically use BOLD FACED typing to embellish credibility, IMO) Incidentally, folks DON'T even think about bringing "your stash to the hospital", LE calls that possession, duh!

 

[MANWHORE]

Swordman
Seems reasonable to me since especially your commentary is based on your own personal observations rather than utter conjecture and does not periodically use BOLD FACED typing to embellish credibility, IMO) Incidentally, folks DON'T even think about bringing "your stash to the hospital", LE calls that possession, duh!

Is this how you roll?

 

[Dr JIM]

MW
The lovely "bring your stash" quote was BBC3, my error, I'll be more considerate of whom shouldreceive credit forthwith.
Jim

 

[Sworder]

"That's how I roll!" I heard it in a rap song once and it sounded pretty cool I guess. Don't really know what it means or if I can use it in that context.

 

[KillaBig]

Zyzz...

 

[Zestorer]

Try a benzodiazepine like Valium, Xanax or Ativan.

Nah, wouldn't using drugs like Valium, Xanax or Vicodin be bad for the guy since he's having difficulty breathing, and those drugs already suppress nervous system functions?

Shit, there's been time when I first started taking vicodin, where I woke up and it felt I went minutes without breathing. Those drugs fuck with breathing IMHO

 

[BBC3]

I thought he said he was 20...?

An attorney already, oh please! How about a final diagnosis before we parlay presumptive conclusions. Don't you want a little more information FIRST, like age for instance!