And you KNOW I can't lay off this one...!
Great Article for
whatever the value...! And I am not attempting at this time to LEND credit or debunk it. The Concept is just a massive thinkpiece -
which YOU KNOW I Love...
Noting first they reference Nandrolone and another, but not synthetic testosterone as a "steroid" as a principle point. It must be noted that that while we have little clinical evidence through past studies or medical experience (another victim of past demonization),
we can denote that from the information that has been discerned throughout the years that Nandrolone is touted as "Highly suppressive" both initially as well as having a longer hang time/complication referencing "shut downs".. Some science, some anecdote, and some just experience by past users and treating physicians related.
POINTs:
- Is there possibly a "use it or loose it" phenomena occurring.?!? And don't just attempt to smear that ink off the page, because short of exogenous hormone use, testicular shut down is as rare as only the known medically validated reasons otherwise known - which are rare.
- From another standpoint - The use of HCG in PCT first comes to mind before any steroid when referencing cancers originating in leydig cells...! Does the study involve the CONTEXT of whether or not the "AAS User" ever involved HCG/Pregnyl in a PCT routine..?? And going back to "use it or loose it" for a moment - I wonder if it could some day be determined that true TRT patients on injectible testosterone might REQUIRE intermittent HCG application to prevent this possibility.?? Then again from what is presented in the basic primer provided in this thread, for all we know the guy pinned HCG like they were going to stop making it tomorrow.!! We don't know.. But I find it amusing that just like they left of the fact that he probably used HCG as PCT..
- Further the general laymanized reading of the article would present as the cancer occurring either due to GENERAL
UNSPECIFIED AAS, the LACK OF LH Stimulation resulting, or even assuming there is no telling what a person this open minded to elicit experimentation may also USE..!!! Not to mention all the uncontrolled supplements manufactured by who knows that this person probably consumed over the years.
- With further regard to potentially unsafe manufacture of supplements and more importantly - ILLICIT STEROIDS, we don't know if this AAS user was even getting legitimate or uncontaminated product.. Which again is the reason for the legality and fine balance we find today with these black market products. I am not even attempting to argue that the fix for all potential steroid black market quality control issues is to legalize them and make them available on gas station shelve
. However, it should provide some comfort in knowing that there are legitimate reasons that may validate leaving LEGITIMATE black market suppliers in business..! History has proven time and time again the the market will find and acquire what it wants, thus there will be SOMEONE to supply it. So the point being that one way to look at optimal UNWRITTEN black market control is to NOT make supply so scarce that crooks are putting foul agents in oils, and/or having to brew in dirty pots and haul their latest batch out the back door in the first dirty container they can find during the latest raid.. LOL BUT Also at the same time you don't want every Tom/Dick/Harry opening a store and selling ignorant "bastard/illegitimate" product.. So a middle is found and hopefully a healthy one - NOT EVEN PERTAINING to this case presented...
Again and IMPORTANTLY, you can denote the authors DID NOT Seem to mention or involve TESTOSTERONE in this primer/summary. They attempt to CONVICT Nandrolone (Deca Durabolin) and Stanozolol (Winstrol). And aint it funny how to COMMON primary base for steroid cycling is TESTOSTERONE...
NOTE that while those two steroids alone MAY comprise a "Cutting/preservation" type cycle by themselves, and you really trying to tell me he does not do testosterone based cycles in the bulk season!?!? Do ya really think he left that one out?!?!? Hmmm..
Dare they not treat on the shoes of the currently politically PROTECTED.. Me wonders - of course...
Its clear they have chosen to USE a MORE RARE type of testicular cancer in a poor attempt to correlate "AAS" to "Nut Cancer". The truth is that your odds of getting testicular cancer will prove more dangerous just from living and breathing I suspect.
Here are some quotes I will choose to attempt to debunk:
Reviewed Quote #1 -
Nandrolone and stanozolol, two of the main abused AAS, have been recently shown to induce proliferation of a rat Leydig tumor cell line, supporting the cause-effect hypothesis for AAS and LCT.
What they are POLITELY SAYING here, is that in rats which THE FIRST
INDUCED leydig cell cancer, these two steroids caused cancer cell growth. How they even gave them the cancer in the first place who the hell knows.?! But DOUUOEiiYOUGH. Really, you wanna know what would have happened had they dosed the rats with SynT after FIRST giving them LCT type cancer.? I probably would have "proliferated the LCT Cells" waay faster than deca or winstrol possibly could have. This article is clearly an attack on more elicit steroids I suspect.
Reviewed Quote #2 =
Due to the patient's claim of no doping practice, a new scrotal-US was performed, which showed a 18 mm central heterogeneous area surrounded by normally echostructured tissue. In December, 2011 the patient underwent conservative surgery with nodule-only excision. A 2.5x1.7x1.5 cm tumor was removed and was histologically and immunohistochemically classified as benign LCT.
What-the-fuk-ever.....! Me dont thinks they are going to "gut some leydigs" from a cancerous testicle. REALLY!?!?!? Testicular is the MOST PREVALENT form of cancer in younger men, but its also the most curable. The reason being is THEY CUT IF OFF ALL TOGETHER. There is not a practicing general surgeon or urologist, in their RIGHT MING, who would leave any of that testicle remaining. They lop it off and its that simple...! Consider the legal ramifications and PULL THE OTHER ONE... LOL So its a SETUP to say the least.
Reviewed Quote #3 -
Infertility associated with gonadotropin suppression can be caused by endogenous or exogenous androgens excess. In our patient the latter hypothesis was more probable due to anamnestic abuse of AAS. The pathogenetic role of an exogenous assumption of AAS was supported by normal testicles at both examination and the first scrotal-US.
(Blue quotation #1) - FALSE - The patient is thirty years old which is the MIDDLE of the most prevalent time period for males to be sickened with testicular cancer. The peak occurring age range for testicular cancer in men is 19-35 ( or close to). So if you consider the odds of an AAS user contracting testicular JUST FOR THE SAKE OF BEING A 30 year old male, and without AAS use, you will find THIS;
American Cancer Society | Information and Resources for Cancer: Breast, Colon, Lung, Prostate, Skin says that 8000 men (IN THE WORLD) will be dianosed with testicular cancer in 2013. 370 will die.
OF THOSE 8000 - How many were doing steroids? Really..! Now you can bring Lance Armstrong into this if you want to go there, but I would wager to say that having his nutz bunched up in a "bikey tighty" and with a speedo underneath for good "constricting measure" would be a FAR GREATER cause for cellular malfunction, rather than any steroids which he may have done. TourDeBikes/ALL OF EM are notorious for juicing everything. How many of them have it. Oh, and I even forget about the fact that these constricted testes are getting beat up shitless while pedalling that bicycle for ziga-miles...!! I knew a guy once to get Testicular cancer at the age of 21 or something like that. There was no rhyme or reason other than college smoking and alcohol, WHICH IS A FAR MORE LIKELY CAUSE.....!
(Blue quotation #2) - FALSE - This proves only that they were looking at the time he cancer was found. Interestingly, it happened when they were looking?!?
IN DEFENCE of the article, WIKI says "Although testicular cancer can be derived from any cell type found in the testicles, more than 95% of testicular cancers are germ cell tumors. Most of the remaining
5% are sex cord-gonadal stromal tumours derived from Leydig cells or Sertoli cells."
REALLY it should finally be noted that while the article singles out Deca and Stanolozol toward the end. They only affirm "ASS" use for the patient and his testicular cancer thus leaving unknown. Only LATER attempting to TIE these two steroids in for their TRUMPED CASE.
I would interpret that this article
IN NO WAY FURTHER Associates AAS use and this type cancer..
Leydig Cell Tumor & Anabolic Steroids
Belli S, Guidi A, Simoni M, Carani C, Granata AR. Leydig cell tumor in an anabolic steroid abuser. J Endocrinol Invest. Leydig cell tumor in an anabolic steroid... [J Endocrinol Invest. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI
Leydig cell tumors (LCT) are 1-3% of all testicular neoplasms of the adult. They are malignant in 10% of cases and occur most frequently at the age of 30-60 years. LCT can secrete hormones, such as testosterone (T) and estrogens (E); infertility and signs of feminization can be the presenting features. The incidental diagnosis is rising due to detection of small nodules by ultrasounds (US).
Anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) are popular doping agents. An etiologic link between AAS abuse and cancer, mainly hepatic, is proved. AAS at high doses are shown to enhance in vitro rat Leydig cells proliferation with increased risk of LCT development. Here we report a case of LCT and infertility in a man addicted to AAS.
A 30 year old man attended our Unit in June, 2010 with a 18 month history of infertility and azoospermia. No sexual dysfunction, testicular injury/infections, chronic disease and therapies were reported. He was a body builder and admitted AAS (nandrolone) use for the previous 3 years. General and genital examination were normal with testicles volume of about 15 ml on each side; A testicular US performed 3 years earlier was normal.
The patient was invited to stop with AAS. In September, 2010 azoospermia was confirmed and linked to undetectable LH and FSH serum levels with T (27.86 nmol/L) at the upper normal limits and Estradiol (E2) (181.48 pmol/L) slightly increased. TSH and PRL were normal but hematocrit (54%), hemoglobin (17.9 g/dl), GOT (38 U/L) and GPT (48 U/L) were increased. The patient was assumed to be still on AAS and was newly advised to stop doping. In October, 2011 LH-FSH suppression was confirmed with undetectable neoplastic markers.
Due to the patient's claim of no doping practice, a new scrotal-US was performed, which showed a 18 mm central heterogeneous area surrounded by normally echostructured tissue. In December, 2011 the patient underwent conservative surgery with nodule-only excision. A 2.5x1.7x1.5 cm tumor was removed and was histologically and immunohistochemically classified as benign LCT.
One year later follow-up for recurrence and metastases was negative and eugonadism (FSH: 2.7 mIU/ml, LH: 2.8 mIU/ml, T: 10.86 nmol/L, E2: 92.59 pmol/L) and normal sperm parameters (total sperm number: 192 x 106, sperm morphology: 3% normal, progressively motile sperm: 35%) occurred. Conception and pregnancy were reached 2 years after surgery.
Infertility associated with gonadotropin suppression can be caused by endogenous or exogenous androgens excess. In our patient the latter hypothesis was more probable due to anamnestic abuse of AAS. The pathogenetic role of an exogenous assumption of AAS was supported by normal testicles at both examination and the first scrotal-US.
The persistence of azoospermia, LH/FSH suppression, T at the upper limits and slight E2 excess, in spite of the reported AAS suspension, casted doubts on the initial diagnosis and leaded to a second scrotal US and to a conservative surgical therapy. The 3 year gap between the 2 testicular-US perfectly overlapped with the duration of AAS abuse, suggesting a cause-effect relationship between AAS and tumorigenesis.
Nandrolone and stanozolol, two of the main abused AAS, have been recently shown to induce proliferation of a rat Leydig tumor cell line, supporting the cause-effect hypothesis for AAS and LCT.
In conclusion, a direct link between AAS abuse and LCT is suggested for the first time in a man by this report. In clinical practice this report's data show the need for testicular-US test not only in the suspect of a pathological excessive androgen production, but also in case of actual or previous AAS abuse. The use of testicular-US in actual or previous AAS abusers will allow the definition of the epidemiological relevance of the association with LCT.