Benf15harp
Member
What in the flyin’ fak is that diet????
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Current cutting progress would like some advice.
- Thread starter griffinator
- Start date
PenguinPiss
Member
+1
Additionally, fatigue and recovery become an issue the higher out of zone 2 you get, and becomes harder to stay consistent.
malfeasance
Well-known Member
Maybe I am too simple to follow all of this "maximum lipolysis vs. glycolysis ratio."
I burn calories.
I burn more when working harder, in the same amount of time, than I do working more slowly.
My body does not have a choice but to burn the energy needed to do a certain movement. If I do it harder and faster, I need more energy in the same amount of time to accomplish more work.
If there is some ratio, honestly, what does it matter?
When I eat, what happens to the calories from carbs and fats?
If I burn 1000 calories per cardio session (I don't, LOL) am I going to stay fat because I have the wrong "lipolysis vs. glycolysis ratio?"
Oh, no! I eat 2500 calories, but I burn 1000 calories doing cardio, but I still weigh 400 pounds because I did not know about "maximum lipolysis vs. glycolysis ratio." Now that I know, I slow down, take it easy, burn only 200 calories per session, and I am a lean 180 pounds at 8% body fat dude in like 90 days.
Does that make any sense at all?
Because it does not to me.
And you may think that is because I am too mentally slow to grasp the concept, but experience shows me my way works. I have gotten into contest shape doing it my way.
Maybe you have gotten into contest shape doing it your way. Maybe, just maybe, I could go easier, burn less calories, and get into contest shape even quicker by slowing down, keeping my heart rate down, and kicking in this "magical maximum lipolysis vs. glycolysis ratio." I do not know because I have not tried it. It does not make mental sense to me.
The highest ratio of fat burning to carb burning is at rest, sitting on the couch, watching TV, but that does not seem like the best way to tell griffinator to get down to 8% body fat.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPNBBJHjRk8
This guy says to burn calories and not worry about this ratio. And he even cites a study around 11 minutes in that backs it up. In order to match the same fat loss, the lower intensity group must exercise longer to match the calorie burn. Now that makes sense to me.
After about 15 minutes, he talks about Excess Post Exercise Oxygen Consumption, which is replenishment of ATP, coming through aerobic mechanisms that use fat.
I want cardiovascular health, and I want maximum fat burn, so I kick it up a notch. I would only tell him to be under 140 BPM if he just does not have the cardiovascular fitness to get there for 20 minutes, or finds it difficult, in which case being over 120 for periods of time to build up to it makes sense.
Please do not misunderstand what I am saying. There are all kinds of benefits from doing zone 2 cardio. I just think that there are more to increasing the intensity, and when it comes to fat loss there is simply no contest. If you are going to stay in zone 2, you better have at least two movies loaded up on your iPhone to stream, because you are going to need to be there a much longer time.
If I stayed at zone 2 for 45 minutes, it would probably show less than 300 calories (2 hundred something) on the machine. Doing it the way I did it the other day, not zone 2, it was 552 in the same 45 minutes. To get the same calorie burn, how long would you tell griffinator to slug away on that machine in zone 2? I would not tell him at all, because he would have to be there for a ridiculously long time.
I burn calories.
I burn more when working harder, in the same amount of time, than I do working more slowly.
My body does not have a choice but to burn the energy needed to do a certain movement. If I do it harder and faster, I need more energy in the same amount of time to accomplish more work.
If there is some ratio, honestly, what does it matter?
When I eat, what happens to the calories from carbs and fats?
If I burn 1000 calories per cardio session (I don't, LOL) am I going to stay fat because I have the wrong "lipolysis vs. glycolysis ratio?"
Oh, no! I eat 2500 calories, but I burn 1000 calories doing cardio, but I still weigh 400 pounds because I did not know about "maximum lipolysis vs. glycolysis ratio." Now that I know, I slow down, take it easy, burn only 200 calories per session, and I am a lean 180 pounds at 8% body fat dude in like 90 days.
Does that make any sense at all?
Because it does not to me.
And you may think that is because I am too mentally slow to grasp the concept, but experience shows me my way works. I have gotten into contest shape doing it my way.
Maybe you have gotten into contest shape doing it your way. Maybe, just maybe, I could go easier, burn less calories, and get into contest shape even quicker by slowing down, keeping my heart rate down, and kicking in this "magical maximum lipolysis vs. glycolysis ratio." I do not know because I have not tried it. It does not make mental sense to me.
The highest ratio of fat burning to carb burning is at rest, sitting on the couch, watching TV, but that does not seem like the best way to tell griffinator to get down to 8% body fat.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPNBBJHjRk8
This guy says to burn calories and not worry about this ratio. And he even cites a study around 11 minutes in that backs it up. In order to match the same fat loss, the lower intensity group must exercise longer to match the calorie burn. Now that makes sense to me.
After about 15 minutes, he talks about Excess Post Exercise Oxygen Consumption, which is replenishment of ATP, coming through aerobic mechanisms that use fat.
I want cardiovascular health, and I want maximum fat burn, so I kick it up a notch. I would only tell him to be under 140 BPM if he just does not have the cardiovascular fitness to get there for 20 minutes, or finds it difficult, in which case being over 120 for periods of time to build up to it makes sense.
Please do not misunderstand what I am saying. There are all kinds of benefits from doing zone 2 cardio. I just think that there are more to increasing the intensity, and when it comes to fat loss there is simply no contest. If you are going to stay in zone 2, you better have at least two movies loaded up on your iPhone to stream, because you are going to need to be there a much longer time.
If I stayed at zone 2 for 45 minutes, it would probably show less than 300 calories (2 hundred something) on the machine. Doing it the way I did it the other day, not zone 2, it was 552 in the same 45 minutes. To get the same calorie burn, how long would you tell griffinator to slug away on that machine in zone 2? I would not tell him at all, because he would have to be there for a ridiculously long time.
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HeatherSwanson
Member
Take iodine before fucking with thyroid meds, helped me out a lot.
griffinator
Member
Ah yeah i have heard about that really chronic iodine deficiency in a modern diet but I never acted on it, Thanks for reminding me!
egruberman
Well-known Member
I'm not going to deconstruct everything that you wrote. What you described is rational, but very much like saying "CICO" it's great in theory, but less good in application.
It is true that you will burn more calories per minute at higher intensities and on an acute basis you will see greater fat loss, but in practice, those that that use high intensity exercise to lose weight generally fail because their appetite outstrips their ability to burn calories. For someone like yourself that's very disciplined, that may not make any difference, but OP clearly has an issue with appetite.
Training in the zone of maximal fat oxidation as described here:
Understanding the factors that effect maximal fat oxidation - Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition
Lipids as a fuel source for energy supply during submaximal exercise originate from subcutaneous adipose tissue derived fatty acids (FA), intramuscular triacylglycerides (IMTG), cholesterol and dietary fat. These sources of fat contribute to fatty acid oxidation (FAox) in various ways. The...
jissn.biomedcentral.com
Will yield, as I already said, maximal lipolysis with little increase in appetite, which has several positive effects. First and foremost, it is the maximal rate at which one can liberate fatty acids. That is, literally burn fat. If you're burning CHO, that may yield a deficit with downstream lipolysis or not.
She second effect of training in that zone is that output increases over time. That is to say, the more zone 2 that one can do, the more energy one can burn in zone 2. As you pointed out, there's a larger time commitment, which if you don't have, then go for greater intensity. For myself, I can burn roughly 500 calories per hour in zone 2 while cycling.
You're going to develop multiple nutrient deficiencies if you keep this up for long.
Get more of your protein from meat and less from egg whites before bad things start happening.
malfeasance
Well-known Member
griffinator,
Please update us on your dietary changes today.
Please update us on your dietary changes today.
griffinator
Member
haven’t gone shopping yet but ill pick up some chicken and beef
Benf15harp
Member
Also grab some fruits and vegetables
griffinator
Member
I already eat alot of them because they are effectively zero cals
Fattyone
Well-known Member
I think we found your problem lol
Assuming you meant lots of veggies though
griffinator
Member
No primally fruits especially watery ones like apples, watermelon, strawberries, raspberries, etc
Benf15harp
Member
Good choices. Be mindful of the calories though they do add up quickly
malfeasance
Well-known Member
Track them. Track, track, track.
I sometimes dice up a Gala apple and put it in my oats with cinnamon for flavoring. I weigh the diced up apple pieces before I pour them in my bowl, and then I enter that weight into MyFitnessPal.
Guess what it was this morning?
47 calories.
So what? That's nothing? Wrong.
Don't forget anything. If it goes in your mouth, you weigh it or measure it and enter it into MyFitnessPal, no excuses.
47 calories is another 12 minutes on the stair master.
An extra 12 minutes on the stair master is not "effectively zero cals."
Don't do this delusional self justification bit. It is self sabotage. Don't ignore calories. Know what you ate for the day. Know whether you hit your macros. Hint: It takes a lot of meat to hit 250 grams of protein.
If you eat it, you track it.
If you drink it, you track it. Obviously, water need not be tracked, but if you put some sort of creamer in your coffee, or milk in your tea, then you track it.
Don't forget butter.
Don't forget salad dressing.
Don't forget anything.
malfeasance
Well-known Member
Do that ten times a day and you are suddenly 500 calories over where you would like to think you are and wondering why the scale is not decreasing or is going the wrong way.
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malfeasance
Well-known Member
Wait, this old dude, malfeasance, who does not even compete anymore tracks his food?
Yep.
Why?
Whenever I want to make a change in my appearance, that is what I do. Small changes adjusted weekly or so make for dramatic results in a couple of months to three or four months.
If I do not track, then how am I supposed to make subtle changes? If I do not even know about the 50 calorie apple, and maybe various other small items, like condiments, BBQ sauce, ketchup, then it is going to be very, very difficult to make 150-200 calories daily changes to my diet or my cardio.
I track even the butter I put on my toast.
When I pull 200 calories, I know for damn sure that I pulled 200 calories. It is not a guesstimate.
Yep.
Why?
Whenever I want to make a change in my appearance, that is what I do. Small changes adjusted weekly or so make for dramatic results in a couple of months to three or four months.
If I do not track, then how am I supposed to make subtle changes? If I do not even know about the 50 calorie apple, and maybe various other small items, like condiments, BBQ sauce, ketchup, then it is going to be very, very difficult to make 150-200 calories daily changes to my diet or my cardio.
I track even the butter I put on my toast.
When I pull 200 calories, I know for damn sure that I pulled 200 calories. It is not a guesstimate.
Benf15harp
Member
Grey Spartan
Member
Without accurate data you are just spinning your wheels. I learned this the hard way.
This is why most people who have trouble losing fat make their food prep as simple as possible because we don’t want to make mistakes in tracking sneaky calories.
Sauces, oils and condiments can be over poured or miscalculated; hence, you end up with the blandest food simply steamed, boiled or airfried lol.
Better safe than sorry, @griffinator if you want to avoid calories accidentally sneaking in, make your meals in the simplest form and make incremental additions as you progress in your meal prep.
