cutting cycles are idiotic unless you are competing

[BodyDysmorphia]

Title basically sums it up; however, I will explain my reasoning behind this opinion. AAS excel in facilitating muscle accrual but do not possess the intrinsic capacity to facilitate fat loss. Subjecting yourself to elevated androgen levels solely for the purpose of fat reduction lacks logical coherence, especially when an efficacious alternative, such as a maintenance dosage (cruise), can yield similar results. Moreover, it is imperative to consider that individuals have a finite number of opportunities to engage in intense steroid regimens aka blasts. Wasting these finite opportunities on cutting cycles is an inefficient utilization of AAS potential benefits.

 

[DECLAN]

Do you think, since you are cutting on lower doses without the fat burning agents, the duration of the cut would be longer thus making your growth phase shorter.

If you optimize your cut phase to shorter periods by employing a proper cutting cycle, not only will you finish earlier and gain time for more growth phase but also have spare for a real cruise and deload?

 

[29trt]

Title basically sums it up; however, I will explain my reasoning behind this opinion. AAS excel in facilitating muscle accrual but do not possess the intrinsic capacity to facilitate fat loss. Subjecting yourself to elevated androgen levels solely for the purpose of fat reduction lacks logical coherence, especially when an efficacious alternative, such as a maintenance dosage (cruise), can yield similar results. Moreover, it is imperative to consider that individuals have a finite number of opportunities to engage in intense steroid regimens aka blasts. Wasting these finite opportunities on cutting cycles is an inefficient utilization of AAS potential benefits.

depends how low you go on the cut, if you go from 20% bf to 12% is one thing but from 12 to 5% is a whole other ball game and only rare specimens can keep muscle on a cruise at that low of a BF %.

so you need the anticatabolic effects of high amounts of gear to keep the muscles in a very steep deficit.
So yeah if by competing you mean 5% bf than I would agree with you, but I would claim that even 8-10% is hard to get to in a resonable amount of time without relatively high mg of gear

 

[BodyDysmorphia]

Do you think, since you are cutting on lower doses without the fat burning agents, the duration of the cut would be longer thus making your growth phase shorter.

If you optimize your cut phase to shorter periods by employing a proper cutting cycle, not only will you finish earlier and gain time for more growth phase but also have spare for a real cruise and deload?

I should have addressed the topic of fat burners. The addition of fat burners along with a low dose of test can be considered without significant concerns, although I personally find fat-burners unnecessary to achieve single-digit body fat percentages. Naturals can get to single digit body fat.

If you to engage in both bulking cycles and cutting cycles and claim you can fit more mass regimens then I highly doubt you are playing it safe. This is particularly true if you are not exclusively using short-estered compounds, as allowing your body to clear out and conducting blood tests before commencing a new cycle is crucial.

Furthermore, I would like to emphasize the primary argument I made earlier: Anabolic Androgenic Steroids excel predominantly in facilitating muscle growth and do not possess inherent fat-burning properties. Therefore, utilizing them during a fat loss phase can be seen as placing unnecessary additional strain on your body and investing resources in drugs that lack empirical evidence supporting their efficacy in fat reduction witch is your main objective.

 

[MrUniverse]

completely nonsense!

think what you want and go with permabulk.
The body is yours

 

[DECLAN]

I should have addressed the topic of fat burners. The addition of fat burners along with a low dose of test can be considered without significant concerns, although I personally find fat-burners unnecessary to achieve single-digit body fat percentages. Naturals can get to single digit body fat.

If you to engage in both bulking cycles and cutting cycles and claim you can fit more mass regimens then I highly doubt you are playing it safe. This is particularly true if you are not exclusively using short-estered compounds, as allowing your body to clear out and conducting blood tests before commencing a new cycle is crucial.

Furthermore, I would like to emphasize the primary argument I made earlier: Anabolic Androgenic Steroids excel predominantly in facilitating muscle growth and do not possess inherent fat-burning properties. Therefore, utilizing them during a fat loss phase can be seen as placing unnecessary additional strain on your body and investing resources in drugs that lack empirical evidence supporting their efficacy in fat reduction witch is your main objective.

What we're your results doing this so far? I remember there's another member here who does this.

Because I feel like you are reinventing the wheel, bulk and cut has been used by most guys forever to achieve their goal physique and calling it idiotic seems extreme. Can you show us your results so far doing this method.

 

[BodyDysmorphia]

completely nonsense!

think what you want and go with permabulk.
The body is yours

View attachment 267231

What part of cutting on a cruise dose did you not understand? If you could read you would know my stance is not discouraging the inclusion of a fat loss phase. but to emphasize that AAS do not inherently possess fat-burning properties. It is entirely feasible to pursue cutting without resorting to high dosages of AAS. And less cutting cycles will allow for more mass building cycles. Stay small though if you want.

 

[BodyDysmorphia]

What we're your results doing this so far? I remember there's another member here who does this.

Because I feel like you are reinventing the wheel, bulk and cut has been used by most guys forever to achieve their goal physique and calling it idiotic seems extreme. Can you show us your results so far doing this method.

To clarify my intention was not to dismiss the traditional bulk and cut method I firmly believe in cutting and bulking. I am specifically talking about the AAS dosages while cutting. I am advocating for cutting to be done on a cruise dose. I have already typed this out but I will provide my reasonings again:

There is a finite number of cycles one can undertake, and AAS primarily excel in muscle-building phases rather than fat-burning phases. Scientific literature does not provide evidence supporting the notion that AAS possess inherent fat loss properties

When you do both bulking and cutting cycles it becomes impossible to run as many bulking cycles as someone who exclusively only cycles when bulking and employs cruise dosages for cutting. Unless you are blasting year round which is even more idiotic.

 

[DECLAN]

To clarify my intention was not to dismiss the traditional bulk and cut method I firmly believe in cutting and bulking. I am specifically talking about the AAS dosages while cutting. I am advocating for cutting to be done on a cruise dose. I have already typed this out but I will provide my reasonings again:

There is a finite number of cycles one can undertake, and AAS primarily excel in muscle-building phases rather than fat-burning phases. Scientific literature does not provide evidence supporting the notion that AAS possess inherent fat loss properties

When you do both bulking and cutting cycles it becomes impossible to run as many bulking cycles as someone who exclusively only cycles when bulking and employs cruise dosages for cutting. Unless you are blasting year round which is even more idiotic.

Like I said, I don't see any proof that following your suggestion is better either. Your just putting out a premise without any evidence anecdotal or scientific either. It's also a bold claim considering nobody yourself included could attest to this, unless you have data to compare which you should be presenting to make your arguments valid.

I'm not trying to diss you btw, I'm here to learn from whatever is available in the forum.

 

[BodyDysmorphia]

Like I said, I don't see any proof that following your suggestion is better either. Your just putting out a premise without any evidence anecdotal or scientific either. It's also a bold claim considering nobody yourself included could attest to this, unless you have data to compare which you should be presenting to make your arguments valid.

I'm not trying to diss you btw, I'm here to learn from whatever is available in the forum.

It is scientifically proven AAS do not have fat loss properties. That is the main premises on why I suggest not wasting cycles on cuts. Have you read anything I typed or are you just replying blindly?

 

[Type-IIx]

Title basically sums it up; however, I will explain my reasoning behind this opinion. AAS excel in facilitating muscle accrual but do not possess the intrinsic capacity to facilitate fat loss. Subjecting yourself to elevated androgen levels solely for the purpose of fat reduction lacks logical coherence, especially when an efficacious alternative, such as a maintenance dosage (cruise), can yield similar results. Moreover, it is imperative to consider that individuals have a finite number of opportunities to engage in intense steroid regimens aka blasts. Wasting these finite opportunities on cutting cycles is an inefficient utilization of AAS potential benefits.

Define "cutting cycle." I think our definitions differ.

Since TRT + caloric restriction suffices to maintain muscle in a deficit, TRT is the most basic "cutting cycle" in my view.

 

[4Drago]

E

Title basically sums it up; however, I will explain my reasoning behind this opinion. AAS excel in facilitating muscle accrual but do not possess the intrinsic capacity to facilitate fat loss. Subjecting yourself to elevated androgen levels solely for the purpose of fat reduction lacks logical coherence, especially when an efficacious alternative, such as a maintenance dosage (cruise), can yield similar results. Moreover, it is imperative to consider that individuals have a finite number of opportunities to engage in intense steroid regimens aka blasts. Wasting these finite opportunities on cutting cycles is an inefficient utilization of AAS potential benefits.

Everyone Always says gear doesn't increase fat loss. When I'm on blast my metabolism increases to where I definitely get some fat loss. And that's with a significant calorie increase as well. Of course intensity in training usually increases. Takes a shit ton of increased calories to gain any extra muscle at this point so I'm just doing "mild" bulking from now on. I eat pretty clean most of the week with 1-2 days a week with a 4 cheese burger and 2 fries load (on top of reg meals).

I'm tired of the pregnant feel with the massive eating required When I'd do my bulking in the past. And I never got over 15-17% bf. So now I only suffer 1-2 days per week.

Yes aas will increase fat loss for some...to a point.

 

[Type-IIx]

It is scientifically proven AAS do not have fat loss properties. That is the main premises on why I suggest not wasting cycles on cuts. Have you read anything I typed or are you just replying blindly?

AAS do reduce fat mass. They do so primarily by commitment of mesenchymal stem cells to a myogenic (i.e., muscle) rather than adipogenic (i.e., fat) lineage.

They do so more potently than can be explained by the (very low) metabolic cost of muscle mass accrued alone.

AAS effects on fat mass represent the combined effect of decreased differentiation of fat cell precursors, increased lipolysis, and reduced lipid accumulation.

 

[BodyDysmorphia]

Define "cutting cycle." I think our definitions differ.

Since TRT + caloric restriction suffices to maintain muscle in a deficit, TRT is the most basic "cutting cycle" in my view.

I would consider a cutting cycle anything above TRT. You are correct are definitions differ.

 

[Type-IIx]

It is scientifically proven AAS do not have fat loss properties. That is the main premises on why I suggest not wasting cycles on cuts. Have you read anything I typed or are you just replying blindly?

Here are some studies that disagree with you:

Gupta, V., Bhasin, S., Guo, W., Singh, R., Miki, R., Chauhan, P., … Jasuja, R. (2008). Effects of dihydrotestosterone on differentiation and proliferation of human mesenchymal stem cells and preadipocytes. Molecular and Cellular Endocrinology, 296(1-2), 32–40. doi:10.1016/j.mce.2008.08.019

XU, X., PERGOLA, G. D., & BJÖRNTORP, P. (1990). The Effects of Androgens on the Regulation of Lipolysis in Adipose Precursor Cells. Endocrinology, 126(2), 1229–1234. doi:10.1210/endo-126-2-1229

Lovejoy JC, Bray GA, Greeson CS, Klemperer M, Morris J, Partington C, Tulley R. Oral anabolic steroid treatment, but not parenteral androgen treatment, decreases abdominal fat in obese, older men. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 1995 Sep;19(9):614-24.

Schroeder, E. T., Zheng, L., Ong, M. D., Martinez, C.,
Flores, C., Stewart, Y., … Sattler, F. R. (2004). Effects of Androgen Therapy on Adipose Tissue and Metabolism in Older Men. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, 89(10), 4863–4872. doi:10.1210/jc.2004-0784

I would consider a cutting cycle anything above TRT. You are correct are definitions differ.

Define TRT with respect to testosterone formulation, dosage and administration schedule.

 

[JeffroCat]

What part of cutting on a cruise dose did you not understand? If you could read you would know my stance is not discouraging the inclusion of a fat loss phase. but to emphasize that AAS do not inherently possess fat-burning properties. It is entirely feasible to pursue cutting without resorting to high dosages of AAS. And less cutting cycles will allow for more mass building cycles. Stay small though if you want.

DHT will burn fat to the fucking bone. The enzmatic conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone is inherent to testosterone metabolism. So....

 

[4Drago]

So your theory is that someone who has acquired muscle mass from a cycle of aas should only do a cut while on trt...normal male test levels?

Just a pretty pathetic theory

 

[BodyDysmorphia]

AAS do reduce fat mass. They do so primarily by commitment of mesenchymal stem cells to a myogenic (i.e., muscle) rather than adipogenic (i.e., fat) lineage.

They do so more potently than can be explained by the (very low) metabolic cost of muscle mass accrued alone.

AAS effects on fat mass represent the combined effect of decreased differentiation of fat cell precursors, increased lipolysis, and reduced lipid accumulation.

Ok I will admit I was wrong. However, the question arises as to whether the incremental fat reduction achieved by increasing dosages beyond the confines TRT warrants the postponement of bulking cycles, which are the prime domain where AAS manifest their full potential. In my perspective, such an escalation in dosage is not justified, as TRT doses should typically suffice unless one is actively pursuing an extremely low body fat percentage, a level of leanness generally reserved for competitive bodybuilding purposes.

 

[Type-IIx]

Ok I will admit I was wrong. However, the question arises as to whether the incremental fat reduction achieved by increasing dosages beyond the confines TRT warrants the postponement of bulking cycles, which are the prime domain where AAS manifest their full potential. In my perspective, such an escalation in dosage is not justified, as TRT doses should typically suffice unless one is actively pursuing an extremely low body fat percentage, a level of leanness generally reserved for competitive bodybuilding purposes.

You know how guys talk about difficulty reading my posts?

I feel like this reading your posts, but you're falling back on lofty language to bring up the deficit in your thinking and reasoning here.

No, we basically disagree. I think that you do not have to be a competitor or aspiring IFBB pro to use AAS rationally to support cutting.

 

[BodyDysmorphia]

So your theory is that someone who has acquired muscle mass from a cycle of aas should only do a cut while on trt...normal male test levels?

Just a pretty pathetic theory

cruise dose is what I originally purposed since I know some guys are huge and require more than AAS