day one of attempting to restart

Random987

Junior Member
Chap,

Have you had any blood tests to see where you are? It would be interesting to check your test levels, FSH, LH, etc. to see if everything is "restarted."
 

chap

Junior Member
still can't afford a blood test, but I have been involved in this stuff for over a decade, and I know my body pretty well, I can tell I am better off than I was the last time natural, and better off for sure than when I was 'on'

I am 40 years old, and this week achieved personal bests with weights and recovery is really good, health is good, haven't succumbed to any of the colds that people around me were suffering with recently, feel really good. I was natural for a good year a few years ago, and my test was low and I knew it (confirmed with blood tests), and I felt terrible, weak in the gym, poor recovery, etc. Night and day with what I am at now. I wish I had known about the clomid/nolva protocal back then, I may have avoided all of my years of hrt experimentation.
 

Vforcer2

Junior Member
chap said:
still can't afford a blood test, but I have been involved in this stuff for over a decade, and I know my body pretty well, I can tell I am better off than I was the last time natural, and better off for sure than when I was 'on'

I am 40 years old, and this week achieved personal bests with weights and recovery is really good, health is good, haven't succumbed to any of the colds that people around me were suffering with recently, feel really good. I was natural for a good year a few years ago, and my test was low and I knew it (confirmed with blood tests), and I felt terrible, weak in the gym, poor recovery, etc. Night and day with what I am at now. I wish I had known about the clomid/nolva protocal back then, I may have avoided all of my years of hrt experimentation.

I hope for your sake (and many others observing) that your restart is sustainable. It would be a breakthru for many.
 

Normandy

Junior Member
Every time I come back to this thread, I get excited that a cure is only a step away for me as well.. and then I remember that my brain reacts viciously to Clomid even at 50 mgs. I get blurry vision and nauseau but that pales in comparison to the depression and anxiety I get on Clomid. Just a few weeks ago i decided to give it another go, and stick it out for 20 days of depression. I figured it would be worth it if it brought about a restart. By the fourth day I had to stop for fear of going "crazy". Aside from the general greyness and hopelessness of depression, i get real panicky that freaks me out even as I take a shower. I can sense the lingering effects of clomid even 1 or 2 days after stopping cold turkey. It still puzzles me why the agonistic properties of it will affect one person's limbic system while another nada. Apart from the wisdom in "everyone's body is different", I would actually love to know what the biological underpinnings of that difference is. And if this happens at 50 mgs, I would hate to think what would happen at chap's initial dosage of 300 mgs.
 

wildfox

Junior Member
Normandy said:
...And if this happens at 50 mgs, I would hate to think what would happen at chap's initial dosage of 300 mgs.

Maybe you don't need to take such high doses. Could be that a small dose would work for you. Or just nolvadex.

WF
 

Vforcer2

Junior Member
Normandy said:
Every time I come back to this thread, I get excited that a cure is only a step away for me as well.. and then I remember that my brain reacts viciously to Clomid even at 50 mgs. I get blurry vision and nauseau but that pales in comparison to the depression and anxiety I get on Clomid. Just a few weeks ago i decided to give it another go, and stick it out for 20 days of depression. I figured it would be worth it if it brought about a restart. By the fourth day I had to stop for fear of going "crazy". Aside from the general greyness and hopelessness of depression, i get real panicky that freaks me out even as I take a shower. I can sense the lingering effects of clomid even 1 or 2 days after stopping cold turkey. It still puzzles me why the agonistic properties of it will affect one person's limbic system while another nada. Apart from the wisdom in "everyone's body is different", I would actually love to know what the biological underpinnings of that difference is. And if this happens at 50 mgs, I would hate to think what would happen at chap's initial dosage of 300 mgs.

I know little about clomid as I have never used it. I wonder if the the dark feelings and effects you have are due to it being a weak estrogen. I also wonder if using it low dose with low dose Armididex might allow some mopping up of these excess estrogens that are making you feel poorly. I know one member of this forum that uses clomid with arimidex for his HRT and says he has tried every method of TRT and this is the one he feels the best on. He dose cycle it however by doctors orders using a T cream in its place.
 

chap

Junior Member
I can tell you that for me the first week of that protocal was very difficult psychologically, I felt really down and depressed, but it was worth it, after that first week I bounced back very very rapidly.

I almost liken that week of high clomid to treating it like you are sick in bed with the flu or something, if you can avoid going to work for a week and laying in bed alot and maybe watching tv and sitting on the computer is all, that would probably be best. I felt like I didn't want to face people at all for fear that my depression was written all over my face. After that week though it all got better from there and now I am outgoing and happy and feeling great.

It worked for me, doesn't mean it will work for you. I'm just relating my own experiences because I felt like sharing, and I was always looking for these kinds of day by day experiences of other people because I think it is a useful source of information.
 

pmgamer18

Member
Normandy said:
Every time I come back to this thread, I get excited that a cure is only a step away for me as well.. and then I remember that my brain reacts viciously to Clomid even at 50 mgs. I get blurry vision and nauseau but that pales in comparison to the depression and anxiety I get on Clomid. Just a few weeks ago i decided to give it another go, and stick it out for 20 days of depression. I figured it would be worth it if it brought about a restart. By the fourth day I had to stop for fear of going "crazy". Aside from the general greyness and hopelessness of depression, i get real panicky that freaks me out even as I take a shower. I can sense the lingering effects of clomid even 1 or 2 days after stopping cold turkey. It still puzzles me why the agonistic properties of it will affect one person's limbic system while another nada. Apart from the wisdom in "everyone's body is different", I would actually love to know what the biological underpinnings of that difference is. And if this happens at 50 mgs, I would hate to think what would happen at chap's initial dosage of 300 mgs.
If you do a search "SWALE Clomid" SWALE talks about this side effect.
 

chap

Junior Member
Well, last night had a good ejaculation and here it is not even twelve hours later at lunch hour and I have experienced a spontaneous erection, so refractory time is good! I'm still lean (can see the 'cuts' in my abs), and feel good. Still going strong.
 

chap

Junior Member
Just another observation I just made, my testicle size seems to be about where I was at when I was in my twenties and natural, so that is amazing, considering I had small grapes for the last few years.
 

hackskii

Member
What a cool thread.

I am day 36 and am just down to 20mg nolva and 9 more days I am done myself too from going off TRT.
Libido is comming back, feel good, getting better pumps in the gym, can ejaculate no problem but not 3 times a day like you chap:D
Dammit that must be nice, I am not even doing 2 a day....heee heeee
I cant wait till I am all done.

Good going Chap, sounds like you have it licked.
Maybe I should taper too, would be quite easy as I do have some 10mg tabs of nolva. Hmmmm
 

chap

Junior Member
lol, you misunderstood a bit, I haven't been ejaculating three times a day, I just said that that was kind of a goal to set to be like an 18 year old kid again, I think it goes above just restoring normal performance though and into a 'superperformance enhanced' realm though, maybe we will stumble on the technology to reach that at senior citizen ages :)

I can do once a day no problem, probably be able to do more if I had the desire, but I might strain myself :) I am fine with abastaining for a few days too, but desire tends to really build up (which is impressive because in all the time I was on varying hrt protocals it seemed like desire never really built up with abstaining).
 

Normandy

Junior Member
From Vforcer2: << I know little about clomid as I have never used it. I wonder if the the dark feelings and effects you have are due to it being a weak estrogen. I also wonder if using it low dose with low dose Armididex might allow some mopping up of these excess estrogens that are making you feel poorly >>

It's most likely caused by its weak estrogenic effects. But if so, it begs the question.. is it more a function of which target tissues/receptors are being affected in the brain OR is it more an issue of simply having elevated estrogen to begin with and then just making matters worse by exerting more estrogenic effects in general. In other words, would someone with low E2 to beginwith not feel those effects of clomid as I do? I don't know what my levels are since I haven't been successfull in finding a doc willing to work with me and set paternalism aside for a day. I've been to 6 docs and they all refused to send for estrogen labwork, they all had varying reasons for refusing, but i got the sense that they just didn't see the need for a man to check something other than his TT, Test, lipids, and Prolactin when presenting hypogonadic symptoms. Which is why i turned to forums like these, this one being the best one IMO.

But in any case, Vforcer2, adding arimidex to attenuate the severe anxiety I get on clomid sounds like something worth trying, as soon as I set aside some cash to get my bloodwork done out-of-pocket and that way assure I get E2, DHT, Bioava T, TT etc.

Another option would be to temporarily go on a light dosage of anxiolytics while on the clomid treatment, but my concern is that would just be masking a symptom that might serve to alarm the pt of something more serious at hand. (wheras adding arimidex, if it proves to work, would have attenuated or prevented the cause rather than mask a symptom)

At the end of the day, Im walking this tightrope blindfolded and just hoping for something to work. (much like a lot of guys on here) But this scenario is still infinitely better than year after year being told not to worry about my perceived testicle shrinkage (which btw, have finally reached garbanzo size) that nothing hormonally was wrong with me (at 280 ng/dl 240-800 range)and having docs treat ref ranges rather than the patient.


-- Normandy
 

pmgamer18

Member
Normandy said:
From Vforcer2: << I know little about clomid as I have never used it. I wonder if the the dark feelings and effects you have are due to it being a weak estrogen. I also wonder if using it low dose with low dose Armididex might allow some mopping up of these excess estrogens that are making you feel poorly >>

It's most likely caused by its weak estrogenic effects. But if so, it begs the question.. is it more a function of which target tissues/receptors are being affected in the brain OR is it more an issue of simply having elevated estrogen to begin with and then just making matters worse by exerting more estrogenic effects in general. In other words, would someone with low E2 to beginwith not feel those effects of clomid as I do? I don't know what my levels are since I haven't been successfull in finding a doc willing to work with me and set paternalism aside for a day. I've been to 6 docs and they all refused to send for estrogen labwork, they all had varying reasons for refusing, but i got the sense that they just didn't see the need for a man to check something other than his TT, Test, lipids, and Prolactin when presenting hypogonadic symptoms. Which is why i turned to forums like these, this one being the best one IMO.

But in any case, Vforcer2, adding arimidex to attenuate the severe anxiety I get on clomid sounds like something worth trying, as soon as I set aside some cash to get my bloodwork done out-of-pocket and that way assure I get E2, DHT, Bioava T, TT etc.

Another option would be to temporarily go on a light dosage of anxiolytics while on the clomid treatment, but my concern is that would just be masking a symptom that might serve to alarm the pt of something more serious at hand. (wheras adding arimidex, if it proves to work, would have attenuated or prevented the cause rather than mask a symptom)

At the end of the day, Im walking this tightrope blindfolded and just hoping for something to work. (much like a lot of guys on here) But this scenario is still infinitely better than year after year being told not to worry about my perceived testicle shrinkage (which btw, have finally reached garbanzo size) that nothing hormonally was wrong with me (at 280 ng/dl 240-800 range)and having docs treat ref ranges rather than the patient.


-- Normandy
I don't know if this will help you get your Dr. to test Estradiol and Total E but after months of fighting with my Dr. some yr's. ago this link worked.
http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm
with this one.
http://www.smart-drugs.com/ias-estrogen.htm
Then I had a hell of a time to get him to give me Arimidex.
 

hackskii

Member
Well Chap, I am glad you cleared that one up.
For a minute i was thinking that 40 year olds could jack off 3 times a day was normal.
I am 46 and I dont have that labido:D
I have another week on my protocol and am just so happy with the results.

Question though bro?

You noticed a bit of libido increase after you stopped your nolvadex?
I am another week but was thinking of tapering so maybe a bit longer.
 

chap

Junior Member
Yeah, I think that nolvadex and clomid, while they definitely increase your testosterone while on, also interfere with libido somehow, because my libido did get better once I got off of the nolva.

My selegeline must have got stuck at the border, because I still haven't got it yet. I'm always looking for ways to improve to super-normal ability.
 

Normandy

Junior Member
Chap, how have you fared this past week? Have you reached a plateu or are you still feeling an increase in positive symptoms? Any change in testes size?


Hackskii, how about you? Are you at the end of your clomid/nolva cycle yet? Post how u're feeling so far. I know you guys probably would get tired of posting daily on the same thing, so I won't even ask. But just remember that a few of us are sitting on the edge of our seats hoping that u guys struck gold.



-- Normandy
 

chap

Junior Member
well, I can't say that I am improving still, probably plateaued a bit... I have been able to have sex three days in a row, but to be honest my desire is not that great, I'm functional but not "driven" (capable but not like I need it like when I was younger)... this is still a goal of mine, so I am still needing to experiment, but I think for sure that testosterone is not the answer. I think something to do with brain chemistry is behind an extreme libido, so I am going to look there for answers.

What got me thinking is when I saw a friend's 9 year old female dog that has an overactive libido, jumping on legs and stuff, which got me thinking, there is not much testosterone in a 9 yr old female dog, yet this one's libido is on fire, so what is it that is driving this extreme libido? Testosterone has proven in so many people not to be the answer to this puzzle, it may be one important factor to be in the correct levels, but something else is even more important. I remember years ago being a skinny teenager that could hardly put a pound on weightlifting, I don't think my testosterone was high at all, maybe even low, but my libido was extreme, I couldn't go a day without masturbation really, so whatever was going on in body chemsitry would be nice to figure out and try to emulate that youthful chemistry again.

As far as my 'restart' experiment, I would say it was a resounding success for me, no needles anymore, testicle size normal, sex drive and erection ability functional and normal, health good, feel good. I still would like to be superman though, but that is what got me into experimenting with AS in the first place, the desire to be above and beyond normal.
 

cpeil2

Junior Member
chap said:
well, I can't say that I am improving still, probably plateaued a bit... I have been able to have sex three days in a row, but to be honest my desire is not that great, I'm functional but not "driven" (capable but not like I need it like when I was younger)... this is still a goal of mine, so I am still needing to experiment, but I think for sure that testosterone is not the answer. I think something to do with brain chemistry is behind an extreme libido, so I am going to look there for answers.

What got me thinking is when I saw a friend's 9 year old female dog that has an overactive libido, jumping on legs and stuff, which got me thinking, there is not much testosterone in a 9 yr old female dog, yet this one's libido is on fire, so what is it that is driving this extreme libido? Testosterone has proven in so many people not to be the answer to this puzzle, it may be one important factor to be in the correct levels, but something else is even more important. I remember years ago being a skinny teenager that could hardly put a pound on weightlifting, I don't think my testosterone was high at all, maybe even low, but my libido was extreme, I couldn't go a day without masturbation really, so whatever was going on in body chemsitry would be nice to figure out and try to emulate that youthful chemistry again.

As far as my 'restart' experiment, I would say it was a resounding success for me, no needles anymore, testicle size normal, sex drive and erection ability functional and normal, health good, feel good. I still would like to be superman though, but that is what got me into experimenting with AS in the first place, the desire to be above and beyond normal.


Only speculating, but I wonder if that urgency you're looking for doesn't come from DHT. I am older than you (54) and since being on TRT, I often have that urgent libido you are talking about - that feeling that I HAVE TO HAVE IT and it's all I can think about. It's a great feeling, but also a big distractor.

My skin tends to be more broken out at times of intense horniness, which, to me, implicates DHT. But, I don't have test results to confirm that.
 
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