day one of attempting to restart

chap

Junior Member
day 25 today, 5 mg nolva

I'm not sure yet when I will do my lab test, I have the prescrip for it but can't afford the blood test at the moment, I'm hoping to in the next few weeks. I can tell for sure that I am restarted, just not sure to what extent, as far as strength and exercise recovery I feel very good, libido I think has more to do with something other than testosterone.

I took a tiny dose of dostinex (about .2mg) yesterday morning and libido surprisingly jumped up pretty good last night, whereas dostinex in different doses didn't help me at all when I was on trt. libido is back down again at the moment.

Not sure what is happening there, but the dostinex also makes me feel really lousy, drowsy and even a bit of an anxiety problem it seems, so I want to avoid it and get on the selegeline soon.

The blood test for free testosterone alone costs over $200, so that is probably the only test I will do when I can afford it.
 

chap

Junior Member
day 27 today ... yesterday I tapered down even more to about 3mg of nolvadex

will maybe do 1 mg tonight and that is going to be it, I will stop and see what happens next

libido was a little better this morning, very sexual dream last night too if that means anything
 

chap

Junior Member
well today is day 29, no more nolvadex

feel good, worked out yesterday very well

libido is still not what it was when I was in my 20's, so I still have work to do there, but everything is functional and when I do have an orgasm it is much better than any time when I was on trt, something about the natural rise and feel of it compared to the unreliability and 'unnaturalness' when on trt.... hard to explain but I'm sure some of you know what I am talking about.

still waiting for my selegeline to arrive, should be interesting
 

3xKrazy

Junior Member
sorry if this was answered before but I cant seem to find it....

what specifically made you want to ditch your HRT treatment?

was there a cause of your low T that you were aware of, ie. AAS use?

and what are you using the selegeline for?
 

chap

Junior Member
well, I, like many others, thought that hrt would mean easy street, great libido, youthful vigor, all of that stuff, but of course the reality was much different.... being natural is so much better in so many ways if you can maintain in range testosterone levels naturally, I was low normal and thought that going on hrt and being high normal would be the answer to everything, but it has so many bad points.... just witness all of the discussions on the boards of guys on hrt having libido problems, supplementing testosterone unnaturally interferes with so many hormonal processes in the body and it then becomes a very difficult painstaking balancing act that never seems to find a perfect spot.

Now obviously, there are many men that have serious glandular problems that cannot produce enough testosterone naturally no matter what they do, and for them it is better to be on testosterone, it is not as good as being naturally healthy, but for them they have no choice. For those of us that thought of hrt as an 'anti-aging' regimen or something to go on to boost up lower range but still normal levels, TRT is a very bad idea in my opinion.

Cause of low t? I have cycled aas over the last 10 years or so, but whether that was the cause or not I could probably guess, but I am around 40 years old so age could be part of it too. Right now after this SERM run I don't feel as if my t is low at all.

I am going to use the selegeline to see if I can achieve teenage-type-libido by its dopamine agonist properties. Libido is actually fine right now, but always looking for improvement.
 
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lou123

Junior Member
From my experience with Tamox/Clomid and tapering them your T levels should be good for about 4 weeks, in my case they then returned to low BUT each time it doesn't seem to go as low, I was at 190 and now my T is at about 320 off everything.

My story is different as the only reason i found out I had low T was because of Gyno which grew back after surgery. No other sympthoms, super high sex drive, bench about 300, muscle. My free T is in the normal range so maybe that explains it
 

Matt Muscle

Junior Member
Well so far so good chap. I hope your T levels hang in there. The test will be of course if they are still good in a couple of months... I would not expect your libido to be the same as it was in your 20's, now that your in your 40's, most guys I know say that it changes.

To say that TRT does not give great results is not entirely true. Some guys are feeling very good on it...

From reading many of your posts, I think you were just taking too much, and perhaps you didnt really need to be on it in the first place.

Having T levels in the upper part of the reference range may just not be right for some guys as has been discussed in other posts on this forum recently.
 

chap

Junior Member
I agree that I didn't need to be on it in the first place, I was one of those that fell for the false hope of trt as being a rejuvenator and anti aging regimen that everyone should be looking at.... complete bs I now know.

I tried so many different dosages and ai and stuff with trt and never was satisfied with libido, could be great one minute and zero the next... totally unreliable..... here I am late evening over a month since my last injection, after doing a serm run, and my libido is better than it has been in years.... I actually have desire and it seems to be getting better every day

I did 100 mg a week, I did 200 mg a week, more less, arimidex or no arimidex, etc. etc. and it was a constant rollercoaster and impossible balancing act with no real benefit for the trouble. Never again for me, I would be satisfied with low normal natural test over trt any day.

Some are happy on it, probably those that were way below low normal where anything would be an improvement, but it seems to me when you read the forums that many guys on trt are posting questions about fixing their screwed up libidos.
 

chap

Junior Member
I should clarify something too, in regards to my comment that I agree that I didn't need trt in the first place..... well it is obvious to me that this approach is far superior for my case than trt was.... but I must stress that when I was natural for a long while before going on my trt experiments, my free test levels measured at just barely over the bottom of the normal range. ...... so many people would have looked at that blood test result and said 'he needs trt'

that is the course of treatment that I now wish I had known alternatives to back then, as I now know that it wasn't a case of 'he needs trt'

TRT shouldn't be thought of as the only answer, and it should not be entered into lightly until every other possibility has been looked into, then if it is still necessary then it should be the last resort.
 
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hackskii

Member
chap said:
TRT shouldn't be thought of as the only answer, and it should not be entered into lightly until every other possibility has been looked into, then if it is still necessary then it should be the last resort.

No kidding here.

When I went on TRT my libido was nice in the beginning, but much lower than normal.

I am another that didnt care for TRT.

But my shutdown of the HPTA was AAS related, the doc put me on TRT without ever even considering restoring the HPTA first.
 

1cc

Junior Member
chap said:
but I must stress that when I was natural for a long while before going on my trt experiments, my free test levels measured at just barely over the bottom of the normal range. ...... so many people would have looked at that blood test result and said 'he needs trt'

Usually with hypogonadism, the HPTA has tuned down and I'm not sure what the chances are that doing a regimen to revive it will succeed. Do labs in a couple months after stopping your meds, and check to see if your levels have improved or reverted back to where they were before TRT. It will be very interesting to know the results.
 

Bayou230

Junior Member
chap said:
well, I, like many others, thought that hrt would mean easy street, great libido, youthful vigor, all of that stuff, but of course the reality was much different....
You said a mouthful here and I applaud your candor and honesty. I read the TRT brochures as I was going on TRT, too. And it sounded like heaven... increased libido, better bone density, increased lean body mass and energy. It also felt like heaven...in the beginning. But I've learned that the body has an incredible way of compensating for changes. Remember the physics lesson taught in high school: for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. No doubt the same can apply with hormone treatments.

The other realities I've learned are "more" is not always better and one protocol does not fit all. Ultimately each of us must learn as much as we can, observe our experience and make adjustments from what we've learned.

When the day ends, I'm thankful to have such a minor problem as evaluating whether or not TRT is right for me. I know others fight much bigger demons.

Thanks, again for your candid observations. Hope to read more as you go along the path youve chosen.

B230
 

chap

Junior Member
well, today is day 32, been on Maca lately, but no drugs at all

libido is really good this evening, it is actually getting my attention and thoughts right at the moment, which is amazing because it was rare for me to actually feel much desire while on trt, I was functional but there never seemed to be a 'buildup' of urgency or desire on trt... whereas now natural I seem to be getting that more normal natural cycle going again.

I'm hoping the improvement continues, I feel like I can have a normal sex life with a girlfriend which didn't seem possible when on trt due to the fickleness and unreliability of things.
 

chap

Junior Member
Just now wondering when the acne or evidence of it will finally be gone.

It doesn't feel 'active' anymore, but the bumps and redness are still visible. seems like it takes months for the skin to completely heal back to a normal color... the hcg was the worst for me for acne
 
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