Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sworder, Jan 2, 2012.

  1. johntt44

    johntt44 Member

    Your body is just a vessel so I dont really care about it once I'm done with it. I just hope it's not in pieces in the road for kids to see. Other than that, fuck it. Your body just carries YOU through your life. I'm not religious so I dont worry about afterwards.
    Sdryx likes this.
  2. johntt44

    johntt44 Member

    I'm a bubbly, smiling, positive person. I seem to focus on the good things. I ride through this nature preserve by the beach 3 or 4 times a week. My face gets sore from smiling at all the people who wave and smile as I pass them. I like simple things like that. I can have a bad temper but someone really has to push it.
  3. Sworder

    Sworder Member

    I have a tendency to think about anything really, a lot of times I can get stuck in one train of thought. Death has been a big topic for me. I don't have [m]any fears, however, death is hard to tackle. I am not really the kind of guy that will let things go, if I get stuck in a challenge I want to complete it.
  4. MaxVolume

    MaxVolume Member

    As someone who spent 3+ days in a coma on life support for respiratory failure, acute kidney failure and acute liver failure last Christmas Eve with Dr’s giving me a less than 5% chance of survival in the first 24 hours, my perspective on death - or fearing death - changed dramatically. I used to fear it, mostly because I constantly thought about what I would be missing out in, what I hadn’t done or accomplished yet, the people I’d miss it never see again or never get to see, the places I wanted to see or things I still wanted to do.

    But after going through what I went through, having absolutely no recollection of anything after my seizure started and I fell on my stairs and broke my wrist until I woke up in the hospital 3 days later, I stopped fearing death and accepted it’s inevitable and could come at anytime. It’s kind of an odd feeling. In some instances it can be almost a stupid feeling, because I’m not afraid in situations I probably should be or a majority of people would be.

    But there was never any light at the end of the tunnel, my life never flashed before my eyes, nothing. If I had died, I wouldn’t have even known it. With that realization, it just doesn’t bother me or scare me anymore.
  5. FLTestlab

    FLTestlab Member

    So what you think. Its a Lights of Deal?
  6. MaxVolume

    MaxVolume Member

    From my personal experience, sure as hell seems like it! And this is coming from someone who grew up in a very Christian, non-protestant family, went to church every Sunday, Bible school during the summers, and attended youth group up until probably 14-15 years old whose mom was extremely prominent in the church And was raised to believe in God/Jesus/the Holy Spirit.
  7. FLTestlab

    FLTestlab Member

    Yea. Sometimes i believe that myself. I do wish we go somewhere but hey. Only the Vatican knows the real deal and for sure will not tell us.
    MaxVolume likes this.
  8. To be fair, you'll never know know for certain when you die. Like 100% dead. No chance of survival, no nothing, no machines hooked up to you etc.

    I personally believe in heaven and hell. I was agnostic for forever. I'd heard about God and stuff but wasn't raised up in church. Things finally clicked for me about a year ago and it was like a veil was torn before me. It was wild, still is.

    But yeah, we will know the truth when we are dead 100%. We either won't know and therefore we won't care, because we are dead. Or we will be in heaven, if you lived accordingly or burning in hell.

    We all find out some day.
    FLTestlab likes this.
  9. Sworder

    Sworder Member

    Nice! Sounds similar to an episode I had. Waking up with a tube down your throat being strapped down is a great feeling huh? :)

    I have thought the same, however I have a nihilistic point of view. I ask myself, why does anything matter?
    Everybody is forgotten, even the most influential person in the world is yet but a name. Galileo and Newton, they don't mean anything to me. They are an idea in my head, not a person with a personality. I don't know what jokes they told. What made them laugh. Just like my name doesn't mean anything to over 7 billion people.

    Here is my point. So even if you travel the world, influence people, do this and that. In the end, does it even matter? I mean, we create comfort and reason in our mind. But to other people, to your neighbor. Who cares?? You are playing a game in your own head.

    But.. That leads to a question. How do you motivate yourself to live a life if you truly believe nothing matters?
    That's an issue for me currently.

    I felt the same way. If I were to die, that was a really easy way to go. I don't remember much except coming to the hospital in terrible pain, then nothing. A lot of the drugs they give induce amnesia so it could have been a lot worse in the situation.
  10. Sworder

    Sworder Member

    The thought of reincarnation is disturbing. However I am not a very spiritual person, in moments of dispair, it has crossed my mind though.
  11. If I did not have the faith that I have, I would subscribe to the theory of reincarnation simply because:

    Matter truly never disappears. It's the first law of thermodynamics, the principles of matter conservation. Matter can be transformed, but never truly disappear.
  12. Sworder

    Sworder Member

    That would presume the existence of a soul?
    A soul by Oxford's definition: "the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal."

    I do not believe in the soul's existence. It is that it is immaterial, I understand you were talking about atoms as if they do not get destroyed. Which I agree that matter is only converted, however your explanation of a soul would almost include that it is measurable?
    It is tangible even if its existence is in quarks or other infinitesimal units?

    If the soul were materialized, how does that make sense with the increasing population of species? If you go back to the supposition that nothing is destroyed then there isn't only conversion of souls going on but also the birth of new souls. And that's where the logic dissolves in my mind. If souls were to be born a new, then the souls of dinosaurs are still around and then some. Right?

    Or are humans the only ones with souls? What about dogs? Flies? Microorganisms?
  13. I think I can sum up what I mean without hitting each of your points individually (I mean no offense by not responding to each).

    I believe in souls in the Christian sense, as I am a professing follower of Christ. I am not perfect, but I am trying to get closer. I will not point out anyone's flaws, when I still have my own. The Bible is very clear on not to do that.

    However, were I not to be a Christian, and to subscribe to the theory of reincarnation then it would make more sense to NOT believe in souls. Our brains create a consciousness and our being. There would be no need for a soul. When we die, our matter is simply rearranged and used for another purpose. We can exist as something else, or someone else entirely without ever knowing we existed prior to this. We are made up of the universe, and the universe is made up of us. We are all one.

    I do not think we have learned everything there is to learn about science, and the very nature of existence. Just three or four days ago, I was reading an article where scientists now think the universe is a massive loop.

    I operate off of faith, and not off of numbers and tangible things. I cannot scientifically prove or disprove the existence of God, or the existence or non-existence of a soul, or spirit. That is where faith comes from. To me, looking at the universe,existence and the way everything is put together makes more sense when I think of there being a being existing outside of the laws of space and time that created everything. I do not believe everything happened by some infinitesimal chance.
  14. notdeadYET

    notdeadYET Member

    Here @Sworder, this is a quote that can go in this thread or your other one.

    ‘Godly people find life; evil people find death.‘
  15. Sworder

    Sworder Member

    I agree for the most part and think we have a similar view. Let me know if you view it differently. I believe that IF our consciousness travels, it would be fragmented. I don't think all of MY consciousness would go to the next being. The next being's consciousness would have some of "my atoms" in them however they aren't really "my atoms" at that point. The atoms become fluid and consciousness would fit the next mold.

    I do want to add that people have talked about remembering things from previous lives. And I am not saying that I believe in that. However, our instincts and a bunch of other information is passed down in our genes. There must be a gene expression for a memory for example. It is an interesting rabbit hole..

    I posted earlier today about Poincaré recurrence theorem in the Number Theory thread. It basically talks about the time it takes for the universe to "reset" itself.
    Number Theory

    I got a knock on my door and it was two Christian girls wanting to spread the word of God. They asked me if I went to church I said no. They asked if I am spiritual I said, well not really I believe in the power of the mind and that not all things can be explained as straightforward as we think. Then her next question was if I believe in God. I asked her what she meant, who is God to her and what does he do? She became nervous and looked at her friend. Her friend started talking about Jesus, the holy spirit and I noticed it was hard for her to iterate what God was. I shut the conversation down after that, I didn't want to stand there and watch the girls squirm.

    So my question to you, in Christianity. How is God explained? I have an idea of what I think Christians believe.
    It is the following: I think Christians believe that God is more or less a ruler of the Earth and is responsible for "good."

    I do not subscribe to that notion. However, the universe is a pretty crazy place. Do I think there is an entity beyond our understanding?

    Had she asked that, then I would have answered differently. I do think there is a possibility. And also, I think if there was a God, I do not think our brains could comprehend Him(I don't know what pronoun to use.) If we could understand God then we would be able to replicate Him. And that is dangerous so I don't think the laws of the Universe would allow us to understand Him. If there is such an entity. It's like visualizing higher dimensions.
    Also, duality, I strongly believe in duality and if there would be a higher entity like that I think it would require a counter balance.

    I appreciate your thoughts on what is considered a very sensitive subject.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  16. Sworder

    Sworder Member

    Good one I like that :)
  17. Sorry, I'm doing this on my phone at work, formatting a response to each point would cause me more frustration than I want at the moment so I'll just continue to quote you're entire post, haha. I will say, it looks much better with the formatting you are using.

    Anyway, to your first response! I agree with you about the consciousness part, I think we are on the same page there. I would not be surprised if bits and pieces of our memory were somehow "coded" or "imprinted" on our very atoms. We see cell mutations and things of that nature all of the time. Probably in ways we haven't even seen, or are capable of seeing yet. Makes me wonder if a thing like a soul could honestly physically exist, we just don't have the means to detect it yet?

    I've seen people try to explain things like deja vu in this way, as visions or fragments from a past life.

    I've seen the Number Theory thread, I just haven't had any time to dedicate to it yet, but that is any interesting theory!

    When it comes to what Christians believe about God, that depends on who you talk to. In this day and age, most people who claim to be Christians believe that God is a god of love and acceptance, and loves everyone and everyone is saved. This is unfortunately, false. These people simply regurgitate what society accepts to be a loving God, they listen to their "feel good" pastors and never crack open their Bible.

    God is holy, I wouldn't necessarily say good as people have different interpretations of what "good" means. The Bible states very plainly what God deems as acceptable, and what is worthy of punishment. It's listed numerous times in the New Testament who will and will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    Satan is the great deceiver, and the adversary of God. The evil to the good if you will. He seeks to deceive people into doing whatever it is they want, not what God wants. He wants people to believe that they are themselves a god. In deceiving them, he feels as if he is getting one over on God even though he will be defeated in the end.

    God created the entire universe, we cannot even begin to fathom a being who exists outside the realm of space and time. God says so himself in the book of Isaiah in the Bible.

    God is a holy and JUST God. He is rich in mercy in that he sent Jesus to us to allow us an opportunity to follow him and enter Heaven. People often say, how could a loving God send someone to hell? They're sending themselves to hell by their own actions.

    If you gave someone 20, 30, 70 years to do the right thing and they never did, do they deserve that punishment? Even though they know what they're supposed to be doing, how they're supposed to live? Knowing there will be consequences to their actions?

    It sucks, and I do not get mad at people who believe whatever they want to believe about God. Whatever makes them feel justified in their lifestyle etc. Society today has deceived them and conditioned them to believe that. It makes me sad for them.

    I love everyone, truly, and I hope everyone has an opportunity to know God and takes that opportunity. I understand that some of the Bible is harsh, and hurts peoples feelings and makes people feel alienated but I, as a mere human, cannot do anything about that. That is God's word, regardless of how I feel about it. It is the truth. There is no changing it.
    notdeadYET likes this.

    TAKESHI Member

    I am a firm believer in reincarnation and karmic energy.
  19. Sworder

    Sworder Member

    Ouch, yeah I can't write on my phone. Well first of all I can't log in, I need to sync my password.

    This is an extremely interesting topic!
    Our genes are mind-boggling. There are millions of different genes! If you would take all the strands of DNA in your body and line them up they would stretch twice the distance of our solar system. Can you imagine how much data is stored there?! The secret to life is hidden in our DNA!

    So, if we would consider instincts or even memories. A memory about being on a swing as a child, I can pull that memory from my brain. If we would think about it scientifically, is that memory encoded in our brain? Is there some "Hard drive space" being occupied to store that memory? How is it expressed? I would have to think YES, the human brain and its entropy has been expressed mathematically previously.

    Regarding the "soul..."
    I don't know if a "soul" is needed. I don't know what it would even entail. I wouldn't say the soul is your "spirit" because I consider the spirit something different than your consciousness. I guess you could say the soul is your consciousness but that doesn't feel right. I don't know.

    Regarding energy, auras, vibes, chakra, gut feeling etc.
    I think most people are good at interpreting things such as a person's vibe or energy. However I think the explanation of what a person's energy is the following. Energy or a person's vibe is the receiver's subconscious interpretation of a subject's non verbal communication. It is common to be able to pick up on a person's energy but not be able to describe why that energy is interpeted that way. It is often "I don't know just my gut feeling" or "Getting a bad vibe."

    So when talking about Deja vu or visions... Here is the thing that creeps me out. When a lot of people keep on saying the same things. It is my experience that it is true, and I am a very hard science type of guy. But my thinking and understanding has been expanded to start including certain phenomena or power in rituals.
    For example, I am a big believer in meditation and fasting. People have been doing these things for thousands of years in different civilizations. There must be something to it, now I can see exactly what it is and it is amazing. Before I couldn't.

    I think a lot of the guys would enjoy some of the videos there if they just pressed play.

    It is interesting that I basically would write the same paragraphs you did to describe the psyche however I would switch the word "God" out to Superego and "Satan" would be the ID.

    I see now my mistake in questioning the girl who God was. I think in the Bible God is described and implied as a Holy being that you don't question. The Bible doesn't allow for "Sworders" asking questions...
    1. Where was God born?
    2. How is his physical being described? Et cetera :p

    Re: 70 years to do the "right thing." Well, that depends now doesn't it. What is right?
    If there is a right there is a wrong, so by stating there is a right you are saying there is a wrong?
    Why can't we just be born "right" and that is that?
    Those are more rhetorical questions if anything, I assume you mean right by God and the Bible.

    Here is my question though, how do you view altruism?

    How do you view different religions? Do you believe they live their life wrong or something like they are living their life fine just according to other principles?

    You are projecting quite a bit here, sorry I can't help myself. It is okay to get upset at other people in your own head. I think it is the most natural interpretation to feel that way. If I were against animal cruelty and somebody would abuse an animal in front of me. It will cause a dilemma in my head. Which is only natural, however, try to minimize your own internal stress. It isn't good for you! I try to condition my brain and set rules. In this example, if I get upset do a slow count to 10 and think of being enveloped in the most supple textiles and indiscriminate love. Like a fetus in the womb being nurtured by all surroundings. That usually helps calm me a little.

    We need more love in this world. I have heard people say that in the past and thought it was corny. I am starting to realize that most evil stems from a lack of love. Really, people need a hug and a shoulder to cry on. Even the tough guys on this board ;)
  20. Sworder

    Sworder Member

    Ah, please explain further!
    Regarding reincarnation, would it be that my consciousness travels to another mind? Do I retain any memories or anything from my previous body?

    Same with karmic energy? Is it something tangible or something that follows a person around? If I were to think of karmic energy it would be more of a self imposed power. Like a person would have to impose it on themselves because you can't escape your actions and knowing you did something bad has an effect on your mind. To me karmic energy would be similar to a person's vibe as described in my previous post. Feel free to share your thoughts. Doesn't have to be complicated. Even as simple as "What goes around comes around."