Classicomano
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this is one of best threads ever, do you consider to continue sharing your experiences?
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Effect of HGH and peptides on people past their prime
- Thread starter DragoT
- Start date
I am returning to this thread to share what some might consider irreverent, others - interesting and few - intriguing from both psychological and physiological prospective.
I have said enough already regarding the positive changes my wife and I experienced ever since we began administering low dose HGH for anti-aging purpose. I did emphasized strongly too, on many occasions, that the positive changes we observed (and continuing to do) cannot not/should not be attributed to HGH alone. We are both on TRT (she since three months ago, I have been on it for more than year) and all together change of diet and nutrition, balancing essential hormones and HGH supplementation lead to tremendous changes in both appearance and attitude toward life.
What I find intriguing from personal prospective is the fact once initial shock from the change settled, we both started looking at some basic facts of life from new prospective. For example, it is normal (or the medical establishment wants us to believe so) that a (mother of two, grandmother of three) woman at age 50 should accept sagging breast, body fat near 40%, going from size 2 to size 18 in three years, night sweats, mood swings, insomnia, loss of libido etc. You are getting old, they say, accept it! But do one have to? Fast forward to today - back to size 2 (goal - size 0), BF around 22%, pre-menopausal symptoms completely reversed, since TRT libido is back as when we got married... Early this year for first time the sagging breast has become an issue (as one of the few reminders of true age) and it was spontaneous, yet somewhat native decision to correct this as well, and she did get lift and augmentation. I am sharing this because I find very interesting how slowing the "aging clock" brings life to whole new prospective. After being together 32 years already, I can tell how "correction" like that affected her overall self esteem.
I said in one occasion - I am bald (Androgenic Alopecia), NW7. Went through the seven stages of grief, shaved and moved on. For 15 years... Yet lately, registering 9.9% BF, six pack (at 55, mind you) I did the unthinkable as well - got hair transplant in Istanbul, Turkey. People immediately said "You look 10 years younger" which does not make me 45 y old, but rather shed 10 years from the 65 years old I looked like before FUE.
Lastly, we have made another "breakthrough" decision - we are now in research phase of "clean bulking cycle" and as soon as we are ready, will take the challenge of "true bodybuilding" (not just gym visits) minus steroids use. In my opinion we found the "gold standard" of HRT right now and will not risk messing it up.
In conclusion, I've decided to share those somewhat "private" facts in the light and spirit of the thread title - "Effect of HGH and peptides on people past their prime". It have been a wonderful journey so far...
I have said enough already regarding the positive changes my wife and I experienced ever since we began administering low dose HGH for anti-aging purpose. I did emphasized strongly too, on many occasions, that the positive changes we observed (and continuing to do) cannot not/should not be attributed to HGH alone. We are both on TRT (she since three months ago, I have been on it for more than year) and all together change of diet and nutrition, balancing essential hormones and HGH supplementation lead to tremendous changes in both appearance and attitude toward life.
What I find intriguing from personal prospective is the fact once initial shock from the change settled, we both started looking at some basic facts of life from new prospective. For example, it is normal (or the medical establishment wants us to believe so) that a (mother of two, grandmother of three) woman at age 50 should accept sagging breast, body fat near 40%, going from size 2 to size 18 in three years, night sweats, mood swings, insomnia, loss of libido etc. You are getting old, they say, accept it! But do one have to? Fast forward to today - back to size 2 (goal - size 0), BF around 22%, pre-menopausal symptoms completely reversed, since TRT libido is back as when we got married... Early this year for first time the sagging breast has become an issue (as one of the few reminders of true age) and it was spontaneous, yet somewhat native decision to correct this as well, and she did get lift and augmentation. I am sharing this because I find very interesting how slowing the "aging clock" brings life to whole new prospective. After being together 32 years already, I can tell how "correction" like that affected her overall self esteem.
I said in one occasion - I am bald (Androgenic Alopecia), NW7. Went through the seven stages of grief, shaved and moved on. For 15 years... Yet lately, registering 9.9% BF, six pack (at 55, mind you) I did the unthinkable as well - got hair transplant in Istanbul, Turkey. People immediately said "You look 10 years younger" which does not make me 45 y old, but rather shed 10 years from the 65 years old I looked like before FUE.
Lastly, we have made another "breakthrough" decision - we are now in research phase of "clean bulking cycle" and as soon as we are ready, will take the challenge of "true bodybuilding" (not just gym visits) minus steroids use. In my opinion we found the "gold standard" of HRT right now and will not risk messing it up.
In conclusion, I've decided to share those somewhat "private" facts in the light and spirit of the thread title - "Effect of HGH and peptides on people past their prime". It have been a wonderful journey so far...
gobigorgohome1218
Member
Great post, impressive results. Totally agree it's everything you've done that led to your transformation. One thing the hormones did was allow you keep lean tissue during your wt. loss. Good job...and this is exactly why I started this thread! I want to separate myth from reality based on real life evidences, if such really exist.
I was on team building sync at Charlotte, NC last week and met some of my colleagues for first time. While I have spoken with all of them many times and have seen their pictures, I was terrified to find I am the older member of the team. Now I come to find I am about the only one over 55 on this board. Looks like my family doctor was (partially) right when he said early last year "Your don't feel happy because... you're getting old". Thanks God I did not believe him
It is a human nature to look back and feel the nostalgia for the days when we felt on the top of the world. It also true we well, that as we age, the desperation to "turn back the clock" overcomes our common senses. HGH as such is not an exception.
Frankly, i did not elected to try HGH in search of "fountain of youth". I did because... I can afford it, simple as that. Sales pitch as "Faster nails growth, better sleep, better skin appearance, improved well being" means nothing to me. Those are all subjective assessments sometimes borderline with placebo effect and wishful thinking - "I've paid shitload of money and my nails are definitely growing faster, hence I did not waste my money". Yeah...
And then, there is science. I have researched the subject of hormones long before I had my first "pin". Around two years, to be exact. I did subscribed to medical journals, both paper and online. Occasionally I have discussions with authors for better understanding the scopes and goals of particular studies. I challenge, in my mind, every claim of "breakthrough research" and never, ever take claims on non scientific discussion forums (like this one) for granted. So should you, by the way...
My conclusion is "the fountain of youth" is maintaining balanced essential hormonal levels, ideally in the upper 95% for particular age group.
Here is one interesting graph from reputable source - effect of declining HGH production on IGF-1 levels.
View attachment 64445
...and in easy to read table:
View attachment 64446
In my case, my baseline IFG-1 of 96 (May 2016) puts me below the median level of 85-90 years old.
Testosterone:
View attachment 64447
In my case, my baseline Total Testosterone of 334 (May 2016) puts me in the lowest 5% of my age group. Ironically, the table below makes me 100 years old.
View attachment 64448
Anyhow, different labs, different methods, reference ranges etc. And yet, the sad truth is - I did felt as 80 years old (minus shitting in bed while sleeping). And besides feeling old physically, the quality of life simply was not there. Indeed, my family Dr decided "You are depressed" and try to push SSRI (not surprisingly, I have new physician now).
Before beginning of the journey:
Weight: 207lb
Body Fat: 28%
Visceral Fat - 13 (whatever this number is)
Testosterone Total: 334 (250-827)
Testosterone Free: 6.8 (7.2-24)
IGF-1: 96 (50-317)
Everything else was withing reference ranges, including Thyroid panel, Estradiol etc.
On April 15, I've made drastic change in my diet. No starch, no simple carbs, no fats, lean protein only, no carbonated drinks.
On May1, 2016 ordered Fitbit tracker for my wife and myself, and Fitbit scale and signet for the gym.
I've had my first 1IU HGH on May 21, 2016 (1x1IU am and pm), and my first shot Testosterone Cypionate on May 27, 2016 (50mg twice a weekl, Monday am, Thursday 5pm)
Here is visual representation of seven and half months of healthy diet plus putting my essential hormones levels in ~40 years old healthy male
View attachment 64449
***Note that single point impedance method fat measure is totally non-reliable and it is good for "trend only", not real measurement. My current BF is 11.9% (Caliper method, media of three measures by experienced gym trainer).
As you can see, I have achieved incredible fat loss compared to little to none lean mass loss.
Current stats:
Weight: 168lb
Body Fat: 11.9%
Visceral Fat - 5 (whatever this number is)
Testosterone Total: 1049 (348-1197 LabCop) which corresponds to about 800 (334 (250-827 Quest))
Testosterone Free: 38.81 (5-21 LabCorp) vs 6.8 (7.2-24 Quest) baseline
IGF-1: 170 (61-200 LabCorp) vs 96 (50-317 Quest) baseline
My goal now it to raise IGF-1 to 200-240 by upping HGH to 2x2IU daily. let see what happens in a month...
Here gets interesting - the interpretation of the results. Can one say HGH alone is the main factor of weight and fat loss - no. Was it raising the Testosterone levels alone - no. Was it the clean diet alone - to some extend, but so dramatic... not likely.
The only logical conclusion for me - all of the above. To me, restoring balanced hormonal level to (somewhat) youthful level was the key. The above is measurable i.e. tangible result. The other (intelligible) like restored energy level, faster post-workout recovery, overall well being, restored libido, returned morning wood and so on are subjective and I will not pound on.
I am interested in your opinion. There are many different opinions and I do not claim to be 100% correct in my conclusions.
That's my story and I am sticking to it
View attachment 64450
In the next post I will talk about my wife's results.
sub7percent
New Member
Hey bro what dosage is your wife using?
Wife is doing 2IU/day, split 7am/6pm. I do 3IU/day, also split. This regimen is not scientifically selected, just convenience - in the morning - before walking the dog, in the evening - immediately after the afternoon walk, before going to the gym. Once we start "bodybuilding routine" we will probably reconsider the timing - still reading on the subject.
Her hormone panel showed issue with Progesterone own production, currently administering topical bio identical Progesterone cream and only two weeks after starting it insomnia went away and libido improved dramatically.
This picture is taken two day after her 50th birthday. Tell me again should one accept "You are getting old and there is nothing you can do about it"?
Her hormone panel showed issue with Progesterone own production, currently administering topical bio identical Progesterone cream and only two weeks after starting it insomnia went away and libido improved dramatically.
This picture is taken two day after her 50th birthday. Tell me again should one accept "You are getting old and there is nothing you can do about it"?
master.on
New Member
Hi, welcome back
Just curious if you got your Estradiol tested as well? HCG may increase Estrogen too much and negate increased Testosterone benefits.
Did your wife try to improve her natural hormones with HCG?
(low dose, not the 5000 IU 2x/week doses that fertility doctors prescribe)
I keep on reading that low dose HCG works wonders for women too.
Yes, I do test E2. Four months on TRT E2 was just below 30 and I did not notice any negative effects. However, as novice, I overdid on AI (1/4 1mg tablet one day after T pin), crashed miserably (I was literally suicidal for two weeks), tested E2 - come back 7. All this because followed "bro advice on TRT forum, LOL), stopped AI altogether, tested again later on, when body fat was around 13% and what do you know, E2 come back ~25. Today with BF of 10% I don't worry at all about E2. Looks like Sub-Q T administration and very low BF are taking care of E2.
As for HCG, I do use 1000 IU per week - to keep the boys from hiding... from esthetic prospective.
Now, the wife did two rounds of HCG diet (don't judge), lost 18LB first time and 10LB second time, mostly body fat, little to none lean mass loss. However, HCG diet calls for 125IU daily, for period no longer of 41 days. Around that time menopausal symptoms have began to wear off, but looking logically, upon stopping HCG those should have returned (but did not). So, I tend to attribute reversal of the pre-menopausal symptoms to HGH administration, which started at the same time with HCG diet.
So, to answer your question, no, she do not take HCG now and since everything is in sync, we don't see a reason to try it right now...
As for HCG, I do use 1000 IU per week - to keep the boys from hiding... from esthetic prospective.
Now, the wife did two rounds of HCG diet (don't judge), lost 18LB first time and 10LB second time, mostly body fat, little to none lean mass loss. However, HCG diet calls for 125IU daily, for period no longer of 41 days. Around that time menopausal symptoms have began to wear off, but looking logically, upon stopping HCG those should have returned (but did not). So, I tend to attribute reversal of the pre-menopausal symptoms to HGH administration, which started at the same time with HCG diet.
So, to answer your question, no, she do not take HCG now and since everything is in sync, we don't see a reason to try it right now...
Naugahyde
Member
Enjoy reading your posts on your Journey to optimise your life & health together with your loved one.
Wishing you both all the very best
I had one of the most enjoyable experiences since long time ago.. You might find this amusing as well.
It was time for my regular quarterly blood work and I've decided to take advantage of my annual physical checkup paid for by the insurance. Previous physical was April last year i.e. my Family Dr have not seen me since.
So, I go today, we shook hands and he asks me why I wan to see him. I was like "We know each other 18 years already and I have you tell you - never felt better. Just want to take advantage of the free blood work". You should know - last year, when he wrote me the script for Test C, I told him I am staring GH as well.
After chatting about family and grand kids (this is Bible belt I live in), he asks me to strip down for "good exam". I couldn't resist and pulled the stripper routine - slowly with quarter turn on every step. His eyes doubled and I shit you not - he looked his belly, then looked me again. So after he did his "thing", he pulled the chair, sat face to face and asked me "Tell me me more. I love hearing success stories".
Now, IGF-1, E2 etc. are not part of regular "physical" and I thought I have 50/50 chance to get it included. Little that I know, he was more than happy to add it because "I am very curious to see by my self"!!!
On the way to the exit, he said:
"I am really, really interested of the blood work because you are the only one 55 years old patient in my practice in such exception health and shape. Would you mind having dinner with me some day to give me more details? I might need this regimen for myself".
Dr is 63 years old.
It was time for my regular quarterly blood work and I've decided to take advantage of my annual physical checkup paid for by the insurance. Previous physical was April last year i.e. my Family Dr have not seen me since.
So, I go today, we shook hands and he asks me why I wan to see him. I was like "We know each other 18 years already and I have you tell you - never felt better. Just want to take advantage of the free blood work". You should know - last year, when he wrote me the script for Test C, I told him I am staring GH as well.
After chatting about family and grand kids (this is Bible belt I live in), he asks me to strip down for "good exam". I couldn't resist and pulled the stripper routine - slowly with quarter turn on every step. His eyes doubled and I shit you not - he looked his belly, then looked me again. So after he did his "thing", he pulled the chair, sat face to face and asked me "Tell me me more. I love hearing success stories".
Now, IGF-1, E2 etc. are not part of regular "physical" and I thought I have 50/50 chance to get it included. Little that I know, he was more than happy to add it because "I am very curious to see by my self"!!!
On the way to the exit, he said:
"I am really, really interested of the blood work because you are the only one 55 years old patient in my practice in such exception health and shape. Would you mind having dinner with me some day to give me more details? I might need this regimen for myself".
Dr is 63 years old.
Funny... Wife asked me while ago (while I was scanning test results for this very post) - "Are you trying to impress bodybuilders?!?".
In reality, as been 55 years old, I pay as much attention to my PSA as I do to Testosterone And cholesterol for what is worth. The first results form the physical on Thursday are in (CMP, CBC, Lipid is processed locally, hormones are send out of state I believe), and there is definitely an exciting news I want to share with you all.
I did not realized the timing of the physical - exactly 16 months apart!
4/26/2017 - approx day or two later we cleaned our pantry and started reading labels in the store.
Please note the cholesterol levels. While not completely out of wack, it looks just "normal" in terms of "average American diet"
Not to repeat the timeline of the change in diet and nutrition and balancing essential hormones (you can find it in this thread), here is what I can report today:
10/26/2017
So, to answer my wife's question - while impressive, those results should be looked as inspiration by people my age reading this forum section in hope to find the fountain of youth. While one does not exist, there is valuable, working path to healthy life simply by making changes in diet and nutrition.
More to come once T, E2 and IGF-1 results arrive.
In reality, as been 55 years old, I pay as much attention to my PSA as I do to Testosterone
And cholesterol for what is worth. The first results form the physical on Thursday are in (CMP, CBC, Lipid is processed locally, hormones are send out of state I believe), and there is definitely an exciting news I want to share with you all.I did not realized the timing of the physical - exactly 16 months apart!
4/26/2017 - approx day or two later we cleaned our pantry and started reading labels in the store.
Please note the cholesterol levels. While not completely out of wack, it looks just "normal" in terms of "average American diet"
Not to repeat the timeline of the change in diet and nutrition and balancing essential hormones (you can find it in this thread), here is what I can report today:
10/26/2017
So, to answer my wife's question - while impressive, those results should be looked as inspiration by people my age reading this forum section in hope to find the fountain of youth. While one does not exist, there is valuable, working path to healthy life simply by making changes in diet and nutrition.
More to come once T, E2 and IGF-1 results arrive.
All right, just got a call from the Dr office - the hormone test have arrived. let see...
Total Testosterone - 1161 (250-827)
What is interesting here. For all prior tests, blood was drawn on Tuesdays, 8am. My Test C shot schedule is Monday morning 7am, Thursday evening 5pm, 0.3cc (60mg) Sub-Q. This time I went to have a physical on Thursday 8:30 am so that I can see where Testosterone is 8 hours before the next shot. The number (1161) kind of freaked me out initially, but then... I changed recently from Watson to... UGL, which is 250mg/ml. On top of that, Monday of this week I still pinned 0.3cc (75mg). Even with that amount, 1161 seems a little high. Going down to 0.2cc (50mg) from now on to the next test, then re-evaluate.
IGF-1 - 297 (50-317)
Another surprise. Months ago, when I was going with 2IU/am, 2IU/pm, it come back 320 and so, dropped to 1.5IU/am, 1.5IU/pm expecting to see somewhere around 240 or so. I guess potency varies from batch to batch. Will continue this schedule until next test and then re-evaluate.
Assumption is the mother of all fuckups!
E2 - 54 (8-35)
I made conclusion (incorrect) that no AI will be needed because I do Sub-Q, relatively low dose Test C and BF of 9.9% and... I feel great! Wrong! Starting .25mg AI day of the shot, will test in 3 weeks and re-evaluate.
Total Testosterone - 1161 (250-827)
What is interesting here. For all prior tests, blood was drawn on Tuesdays, 8am. My Test C shot schedule is Monday morning 7am, Thursday evening 5pm, 0.3cc (60mg) Sub-Q. This time I went to have a physical on Thursday 8:30 am so that I can see where Testosterone is 8 hours before the next shot. The number (1161) kind of freaked me out initially, but then... I changed recently from Watson to... UGL, which is 250mg/ml. On top of that, Monday of this week I still pinned 0.3cc (75mg). Even with that amount, 1161 seems a little high. Going down to 0.2cc (50mg) from now on to the next test, then re-evaluate.
IGF-1 - 297 (50-317)
Another surprise. Months ago, when I was going with 2IU/am, 2IU/pm, it come back 320 and so, dropped to 1.5IU/am, 1.5IU/pm expecting to see somewhere around 240 or so. I guess potency varies from batch to batch. Will continue this schedule until next test and then re-evaluate.
Assumption is the mother of all fuckups!
E2 - 54 (8-35)
I made conclusion (incorrect) that no AI will be needed because I do Sub-Q, relatively low dose Test C and BF of 9.9% and... I feel great! Wrong! Starting .25mg AI day of the shot, will test in 3 weeks and re-evaluate.
Are you saying oral anabolic steroids have no benefits? Your posts sometimes make me feel as though I'm having a stroke...
What I am saying is: certain hormones (namely HGH, HCG etc) and almost all Vitamins (like B12 for example) are rendered ineffective when passed through the digestive tract.
This statement was made specifically about HCG. I've never refereed to "anabolic steroids" as a whole.
Why B12 in "pill form" is not regulated, but for "B12 injectable" (Cyanocobalamin) you need a prescription? Because the pill form does not work...
This statement was made specifically about HCG. I've never refereed to "anabolic steroids" as a whole.
Why B12 in "pill form" is not regulated, but for "B12 injectable" (Cyanocobalamin) you need a prescription? Because the pill form does not work...
Not sure I'm following the logic between regulation/scheduling and effectiveness...
Regardless, I know you mean well, and have good ideas/input here... The winded posts are tiring for me and feel a BIT like you're over complicating the FUCK out of things to convey an unnecessary elements of credibility...
If you would like to have more users comment/input, I would suggest condensing your posts, a bit... Otherwise you'll just have dimwits like Master.on who will literally reply to any click-bait reply...
Again, I wouldn't offer my critiques if I didn't think you mean well and can add value.
I think he meant peptide hormones, which generally do not survive pass through digestion and are broken down, as any ingested peptide/protein, that is not specifically resistant.
He is wrong about B12, though. Orally it's plenty efficient. Injectable is regulated because it simply is not smart to sell products for injection to general public without any... bureaucracy, for lack of a better word. Also, it's used for the most severe deficiencies like anemia perniciosa - if you have that you ain't got no issue getting a prescription.
I see what he meant, but I do like to point out overly broad/blanket statements for other readers, if that makes sense? Other readers should know what was implied, not have to read between the lines. This becomes even more important within the novels that he likes to post.... Again, not trying to troll the guy as I actually think he is a positive influence.. I get criticized as much as everyone else, it build the community as a whole.
Yeah, I get you totally, just chimed in to clarify as well. I also think that clarity is important in stuff like this.
I like @DragoT's journey as well. He and his wife are in better shape than many people in their 20s I know. Keep it up!
Point taken
This echoes my my wife's criticism as well... "Why you have to start from Adam and Eve to tell me what happened today on you way back from the store ..."I guess I am really fucked from long years having to write technical documentation where nothing should be left open for interpretation or bad things could happen to thousands of workers very fast.
But yes, I see your point.
Just remember, most of us (myself included), are meathead bros... We need simplified, easy-to-digest posts and info.... Think of it like just reading the "Conclusions" of a study, that's about all we're good forPoint taken
I guess I am really fucked from long years having to write technical documentation where nothing should be left open for interpretation or bad things could happen to thousands of workers very fast.
But yes, I see your point.
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