Enclomiphene instead of HCG to keep balls while blasting & cruising?

[redro1d]

Do you think it's possible? I've tried enclomiphene monotherapy for 3 months (6,25 mg daily) and my balls doubled in size. I would like to keep them that way, but I also plan to blast & cruise on test e (250-500 mg per week) for the next 2 years at least. I don't care about fertility since i already got kids, I care about keeping my ball size though.

When on Testosterone Replacement, it is critical to take care of your testicular health. Until recently, HCG was the drug of choice. Unfortunately, HCG is no longer a viable option, so we are replacing it with Enclomiphene citrate. For our Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT) patients, we are transitioning immediately to 12.5 mg of Enclomiphene citrate twice weekly along with all of the other components of out TRT program. Enclomiphene citrate is actually superior to HCG for many reasons. One is practicality because now there is no refrigeration, mixing, and less injections required. Also, fertility is increased, seminal fluid is increased, testicular size is completely restored, and downstream DHEA, progesterone, and pregnenolone are all increased.

lowtnation.com/hcg-alternative-enclomiphene-citrate

 

[poff1]

https://www.youtube.com/@andrologiamilitello

In this channel a doctor (andrologist and urologist) has several videos about SERMs and Enclomiphene (it's in italian, but u can use subtitles with translate).
Many of the info in this channel support the statement you quoted.

 

[rugerjitsu]

We're talking about clomid, right?

 

[sia]

We're talking about clomid, right?

Enclomifene or Enclomiphene (INN) a nonsteroidal selective estrogen receptor modulator of the triphenylethylene group acts by antagonizing the estrogen receptor (ER) in the pituitary gland, which reduces negative feedback by estrogen on the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis.
thereby increasing gonadotropin secretion and hence gonadal production of testosterone.
clomifene (Clomid) itself is a mixture of 38% zuclomifene and 62% enclomifene.

Enclomifene is the (E)-stereoisomer of clomifene, while zuclomifene is the (Z)-stereoisomer.
Zuclomifene is more estrogenic, enclomifene is more antiestrogenic.
unlike enclomifene, zuclomifene is antigonadotropic due to activation of the ER and reduces testosterone levels in men.
Isomerically pure enclomifene is more favorable than clomifene as a progonadotropin for the treatment of male hypogonadism.

Of course, you can search for more information.

 

[rugerjitsu]

Enclomifene or Enclomiphene (INN) a nonsteroidal selective estrogen receptor modulator of the triphenylethylene group acts by antagonizing the estrogen receptor (ER) in the pituitary gland, which reduces negative feedback by estrogen on the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis.
thereby increasing gonadotropin secretion and hence gonadal production of testosterone.
clomifene (Clomid) itself is a mixture of 38% zuclomifene and 62% enclomifene.

Enclomifene is the (E)-stereoisomer of clomifene, while zuclomifene is the (Z)-stereoisomer.
Zuclomifene is more estrogenic, enclomifene is more antiestrogenic.
unlike enclomifene, zuclomifene is antigonadotropic due to activation of the ER and reduces testosterone levels in men.
Isomerically pure enclomifene is more favorable than clomifene as a progonadotropin for the treatment of male hypogonadism.

Of course, you can search for more information.

This is new to me, thanks for the info!

 

[redro1d]

In this channel a doctor (andrologist and urologist) has several videos about SERMs and Enclomiphene (it's in italian, but u can use subtitles with translate).
Many of the info in this channel support the statement you quoted.

I will have a look, thanks. I'm especially interested in personal experiences though.

This is new to me, thanks for the info!

If you are interested, I can vouch for the DEUS enclomiphene. I don't know about their other products, but their enclomiphene seems legit.

 

[DrStrapped]

Theoretically, enclomiphene should work to an certain extent for maintenance testicular size and fertility. Testosterone has been shown to negatively feedback the hypothalamic-pituitary axis which is partially mediated by estradiol thus blocking estrogen by adding enclomiphene would alleviate some of the negative feeback mechanism. Men given AI in small clinical trials shows increase both LH and FSH, which is congruent with this feedback regulation. Low T nation claim data show diminished but intact sperm count with enclomiphene uses while on TRT. Keep in mind that this is TRT dosage and not blast/cycle dosage.

 

[Country Club Hero]

It works if you keep the exogenous testosterone low enough. For me that’s a max of about 15mg of test cyp a day.

If I keep my TRT under that amount the Enclomiphene works nicely and you get some natty test and some of the positive cascading effects of that. Plus still get that crutch of the synthetic stuff.

This is the current way. You are seeking the truth, young Jedi.

 

[HB_22]

Enclomifene or Enclomiphene (INN) a nonsteroidal selective estrogen receptor modulator of the triphenylethylene group acts by antagonizing the estrogen receptor (ER) in the pituitary gland, which reduces negative feedback by estrogen on the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis.
thereby increasing gonadotropin secretion and hence gonadal production of testosterone.
clomifene (Clomid) itself is a mixture of 38% zuclomifene and 62% enclomifene.

This wont work on cycle or trt. Your gonadotropins will be zero, so that Clomid or enclomiphene in this case makes no sense.

 

[HB_22]

It works if you keep the exogenous testosterone low enough. For me that’s a max of about 15mg of test cyp a day.

If I keep my TRT under that amount the Enclomiphene works nicely and you get some natty test and some of the positive cascading effects of that. Plus still get that crutch of the synthetic stuff.

This is the current way. You are seeking the truth, young Jedi.

I doubt that. Can you show bloodwork with total testosterone, free test, SHBG, LH, FSH, E2?

 

[Country Club Hero]

I doubt that. Can you show bloodwork with total testosterone, free test, SHBG, LH, FSH, E2?

Nope, don’t have any. But I have been at this a while and know what I’m experiencing. I’m not a 21 year old on my first blast, bud.

 

[Rido]

This wont work on cycle or trt. Your gonadotropins will be zero, so that Clomid or enclomiphene in this case makes no sense.

I have read that it can increase a mild boost to LH/FSH even on cycle.

But I have only seen a few anectodal reports with no bloods. been contemplating trying this on my next cruise

 

[sia]

This wont work on cycle or trt. Your gonadotropins will be zero, so that Clomid or enclomiphene in this case makes no sense.

Just because it didn't work for you doesn't mean it won't work for others.
Your body is genetically and hormonally specific.
Maybe your body responds with 700 mg of testosterone, but this dose is too much for me.

So there is no reason to emphasize your 100% which is not answerable.

 

[HB_22]

Just because it didn't work for you doesn't mean it won't work for others.
Your body is genetically and hormonally specific.
Maybe your body responds with 700 mg of testosterone, but this dose is too much for me.

So there is no reason to emphasize your 100% which is not answerable.

Have you even read my post? If you put exogenous hormones in your body your gonadotropin production will be shut down. I didnt say it didnt work for me, I said it doesnt work that way in general.

But I am always interested in learning stuff so please feel free to prove me otherwise.

The dose doesnt matter, it's not the question how many mg of testosterone to make this work. Even if you add 5mg daily your body stops producing gonadotropins like LH and FSH.

 

[HB_22]

Nope, don’t have any. But I have been at this a while and know what I’m experiencing. I’m not a 21 year old on my first blast, bud.

Well, this is no scientific proof. Feels don't prove anything.

@Type-IIx
Can you chime in and let us know what you think about this topic?

I doubt it's possible that gonatropins like LH FSH are produced if exogenous hormones are applied in any form.

 

[Type-IIx]

Well, this is no scientific proof. Feels don't prove anything.

@Type-IIx
Can you chime in and let us know what you think about this topic?

I doubt it's possible that gonatropins like LH FSH are produced if exogenous hormones are applied in any form.

LH & FSH can be stimulated at true replacement doses as Country Club Hero applies it (105 mg testosterone cypionate or enanthate weeky), such that testis size & spermatogenesis are maintained (though I would think less reliably than hCG, and with virtually no certainty that it preserves fertility, if sought after, that the addition of hMG to hCG treatment would be used for). It is, however, very unlikely that enclomiphene can maintain testis size on 500 mg testosterone weekly, as OP plans, however.

While enclomiphene blocks estrogens' inhibitory action on the pituitary, thereby increasing LH, FSH, and T secretion (assuming intact Leydig cell function), exogenous supraphysiologic doses of testosterone increase the action of androgens at the hypothalamus, slowing the rate of GnRH pulse frequency (i.e., before the GnRH signal reaches the pituitary).

Enclomiphene failed to receive FDA approval for treatment of (secondary, hypogonadotropic hypogonadism), unlike hCG that is approved, because while SERM ER antagonism at the pituitary increases LH, FSH, & T secretion, and therefore testis size & spermatogenesis in secondary hypogonadism, it fails to increase (likely because is blocks estrogen enhancement of) sexual function (libido/sexual interest, erectile quality) and fatigue & vitality, and has no benefit for or even a harmful impact on body fat levels.

 

[DrStrapped]

Odd that one would asked for proof to reject the null hypothesis in favor of the alternate hypothesis while making claim to accept the null hypothesis, yet providing no proof.
(The null hypothesis in this case would be "there is no difference in serum LH/FSH with treatment using enclomiphene vs placebo in those using TRT" while the alternative hypothesis would be "there is a difference in serum LH/FSH with uses of enclomiphene vs placebo in those using TRT").

 

[Country Club Hero]

Well, this is no scientific proof. Feels don't prove anything.

@Type-IIx
Can you chime in and let us know what you think about this topic?

I doubt it's possible that gonatropins like LH FSH are produced if exogenous hormones are applied in any form.

Bro are you new to this? Is this the only forum you are on? Go read a few of the 80+ pages of the thread titled “10mg“ on professional muscle.

You will find countless others getting the goodness of exogenous testosterone while still having active testicles of your own. I started microdosing testosterone cypionate when I found that thread years ago. Eventually after doing it a while my balls started coming back. Without HCG or Clomid/Enclomiphene.

You don’t need blood work to verify every single thing in your life lol. If you start growing tits as a dude you got problems. But if you still need blood work to tell you that then you’re in for a challenging life, bro. When your balls start growing on low dose testosterone cypionate what does that tell you?

 

[HB_22]

You don’t need blood work to verify every single thing in your life lol.

See, that's my problem here. Yes, I followed the 10mg thread from the start (on PM) and even there you cant find a single bloodwork showing detectable LH and FSH when using exogenous testosterone. And that thread exists for years, still no bloodwork in there that shows that.

Anyway, believe what you want, go by feels, I honestly dont care. It's just wrong that's for sure.

 

[SonhoDourado]

Working with a fertility group now and just spoke with my PA-C this week. She mentioned for clients who absolutely cant hack PCT use 1500 IU of HCG 1x/week to keep size and function in the testes. Mentioned its not a guarantee but most men on TRT need way more than the age old wisdom of 250I.U 2x/week to keep fertile while on AAS/TRT, especially for those older and longer durations of use.