Fentanyl. It's discreet, it's known to kill...

[valuum]

I'll relate my experience since you tasted a little of the same.
2006 broke hand badly, on hydrocodone for a few months. No issues with painkillers. 2008 knocked hardware and pins loose in same hand at work, surgery to remove smae hardware, a few days of painkillers no issue stopping.
2010 hurt back badly and had to work to support the family. Doc started me on 90 Norco a month and moved to the percocet. Still could take or leave them.
2012 shot 5 times with a 9mm,multiple broken bones (bullets meet bone, bone explodes) , I have cadaver bones and rod from knee to ankle), shot in thigh, stomach, and head. Wheelchair, walker, crutches, all that jazz. That lead to 2 years of daily percocet and dependency/addiction. I wouldn't buy off the street so most of my time was spent in pain and and withdrawal for a couple of years. Suboxone once I didn't need the oxycodone for my pain every day for a few years. Weaned off the suboxone and 6 months later broke 3 vertebrae. Now I've spent almost a year horizontal on pain meds. I can't wean off the pain meds because I feel like I have been hit between the shoulder blades with an ax. By the time I finish making breakfast for my parents, my mom's in hospice dad not much better, I have to go lay on the floor for a half hour so my back will quit spasming. They say surgery won't help. I've went to 3 orthopedic surgeons.
So now I'm dependent on even stronger painkillers than before. It's taken me a year to find a pain management doctor that actually works to help me. I went through three others that were shit. I won't be trying any fentanyl outside of the hospital. I still won't buy street drugs but I am not happy with the situation. I had just got back in decent opiate free physical condition when I broke my back. Now I'm worse than ever.

I think there's a lot of legit uses for opiates. I mean I wouldn't want to live in pain. Are you dead set on getting off them?

Fentanyl wasn't a dirty word until recently. It was just known as a powerful opiate in the beginning. The patches did have some people overdose but that was from misuse (putting a blow dryer to the patch). I definitely feel more functional on fent than say morphine.

I'd also rather withdraw from fent than just about any other opiate. The sickness from suboxone, oxy, heroin lasts way longer.

I have 5 weeks clean from fent right now. The stuff on the street is so fucking dirty it's insane. Literal black gunpowder looking shit, or purple/pink rocks that look like crystal light.

 

[Thaistick]

I think there's a lot of legit uses for opiates. I mean I wouldn't want to live in pain. Are you dead set on getting off them?

Fentanyl wasn't a dirty word until recently. It was just known as a powerful opiate in the beginning. The patches did have some people overdose but that was from misuse (putting a blow dryer to the patch). I definitely feel more functional on fent than say morphine.

I'd also rather withdraw from fent than just about any other opiate. The sickness from suboxone, oxy, heroin lasts way longer.

I have 5 weeks clean from fent right now. The stuff on the street is so fucking dirty it's insane. Literal black gunpowder looking shit, or purple/pink rocks that look like crystal light.

I was set on complete abstinence until I broke my back. I don't really have a choice now if I want to be able to even function around the house cooking washing dishes, and etc. I had hoped to have the nerve ablation done but it won't help with my problem. Through the careful use of kratom and cannabis I am able to minimize my use of the painkillers. I'm not stupid, I know that I'm dependent, but I'm not abusing them for fun. And I still hope to be able to improve my condition. It's just a long process involving painful physical therapy.

 

[brutus79]

So basically you are saying there is no free will? I think as an ex drug user I do have experience with this and can comment. It's not bias it is fact I chose not to use.

No one is holding a gun to your head and telling you to do drugs. It's your choice. You can blame anything you want but it's your choice. Now mental illnesses, there is no denying that. But labeling "addiction" as a true disease I dont buy into. Are there mental issues like depression or anxiety pushing your choices. Could be but addiction can be acquired and or broken. Labeling it all that I feel is grossly lumping mental issues into the term addiction. By definition it's not a disease.

Are you really this inept at deciphering an extremely obvious point someone is making? Yes, I think you are. As an ex drug user who is NOT an addict your experience in the matter is completely irrelevant. Your point which is largely semantics that a disorder or disorders in the brain lend themselves to contributing to a drug "problem" as opposed to the drug problem being the actual brain disorder- what the fuck is the difference beyond winning the argument?

Mostly- you are a retard.

dis·ease

/dəˈzēz/

noun

a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury.

"bacterial meningitis is a rare disease"

synonyms:illness, sickness, ill health; More

a particular quality, habit, or disposition regarded as adversely affecting a person or group of people.

"departmental administration has often led to the dread disease of departmentalitis"


A disease is exactly what a disorder in the brain that causes a drug problem would be called... or in dumb fuck land where you are from it still fits- other, random mental disorders that are not drug addiction but they magically combine and make someone have a problem with drugs- still a disease by definition.

You are confusing, once again, the erroneous perceptions you have (the meaning of disease as you invent it versus the actual definition in this case) versus reality.

I think if you had a moment of clarity and realized how fucking ridiculously moronic you are it would probably be fatal for you. You loathe the idiocy you think you see in others- idiocy that you are actually the source of that I would hope you deep throating a .45 would be the only way out. You would be right.

I love a .45... it would make me love them that much more.

 

[movingiron88]

Are you really this inept at deciphering an extremely obvious point someone is making? Yes, I think you are. As an ex drug user who is NOT an addict your experience in the matter is completely irrelevant. Your point which is largely semantics that a disorder or disorders in the brain lend themselves to contributing to a drug "problem" as opposed to the drug problem being the actual brain disorder- what the fuck is the difference beyond winning the argument?

Mostly- you are a retard.

dis·ease

/dəˈzēz/

noun

a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury.

"bacterial meningitis is a rare disease"

synonyms:illness, sickness, ill health; More

a particular quality, habit, or disposition regarded as adversely affecting a person or group of people.

"departmental administration has often led to the dread disease of departmentalitis"


A disease is exactly what a disorder in the brain that causes a drug problem would be called... or in dumb fuck land where you are from it still fits- other, random mental disorders that are not drug addiction but they magically combine and make someone have a problem with drugs- still a disease by definition.

You are confusing, once again, the erroneous perceptions you have (the meaning of disease as you invent it versus the actual definition in this case) versus reality.

I think if you had a moment of clarity and realized how fucking ridiculously moronic you are it would probably be fatal for you. You loathe the idiocy you think you see in others- idiocy that you are actually the source of that I would hope you deep throating a .45 would be the only way out. You would be right.

I love a .45... it would make me love them that much more.

So genius only certain drug users are drug addicts? Where do you draw the line saying one has a disease and the other just has s drug problem?

Do you want to blame your drug use on a disease? Just like you blame beating a woman isnt your fault, you were just defending yourself. Haha come on, sometimes it's just your fault you are a weak minded little guy. Please dont keep lying about it, I really dont feel like digging through your old posts to prove my point. You know exactly what I'm talking about you coward.

It seems reading through all your garbage of a post you still did not make your case or counter mine.

So please outline your stance. When is your drug problem an actual disease and not just your own choice?

P.S - i know you like to act like you got it so hard and others so easy. But I'm seeing it's just your MO, go find someone or something else to blame for your train wreck of a life.

 

[Havah]

So basically you are saying there is no free will? I think as an ex drug user I do have experience with this and can comment. It's not bias it is fact I chose not to use.

No one is holding a gun to your head and telling you to do drugs. It's your choice. You can blame anything you want but it's your choice. Now mental illnesses, there is no denying that. But labeling "addiction" as a true disease I dont buy into. Are there mental issues like depression or anxiety pushing your choices. Could be but addiction can be acquired and or broken. Labeling it all that I feel is grossly lumping mental issues into the term addiction. By definition it's not a disease.

I m saying the concept of free will is to be used with caution when dealing with psychiatry / addiction, especially if the only source of knowledge you have is your own experience

You re the guy thinking suicide is a choice aswell i guess

You not bying into addiction being a disease is like people not buying the earth isnt flat

Also over 75% of mentally ill patients have an addiction, addiction can induce psychiatric diseases and the other way around, yet here you are drawing clear lines, thinking in absolutes

Not gonna bother with you anymore until you google the basics, start with the neurobiology of "choice", you might learn a thing or two

 

[movingiron88]

I m saying the concept of free will is to be used with caution when dealing with psychiatry / addiction, especially if the only source of knowledge you have is your own experience

You re the guy thinking suicide is a choice aswell i guess

You not bying into addiction being a disease is like people not buying the earth isnt flat

Also over 75% of mentally ill patients have an addiction, addiction can induce psychiatric diseases and the other way around, yet here you are drawing clear lines, thinking in absolutes

Not gonna bother with you anymore until you google the basics, start with the neurobiology of "choice", you might learn a thing or two

Suicide is undoubtedly a choice. Is that really your logic?

Also, if it is so clear cut and dry a true disease then please answer the question, when does it become a disease? Where is the line drawn from choice to disease? I'm curious?

Saying not believing addiction itself is a disease is like believing the earth is flat may be one of the most overexagerated comment I have heard in a while. I had a good laugh at that one. It's almost like claiming @brutus79 is a decent human being and not some woman beating, white hating peice of shit.

Everyone that is getting so mad about this shows me you want it to be a disease so you have an excuse for your own sctions.

 

[brutus79]

So genius only certain drug users are drug addicts? Where do you draw the line saying one has a disease and the other just has s drug problem?

Do you want to blame your drug use on a disease? Just like you blame beating a woman isnt your fault, you were just defending yourself. Haha come on, sometimes it's just your fault you are a weak minded little guy. Please dont keep lying about it, I really dont feel like digging through your old posts to prove my point. You know exactly what I'm talking about you coward.

It seems reading through all your garbage of a post you still did not make your case or counter mine.

So please outline your stance. When is your drug problem an actual disease and not just your own choice?

P.S - i know you like to act like you got it so hard and others so easy. But I'm seeing it's just your MO, go find someone or something else to blame for your train wreck of a life.

I don't have it hard... not even close. I can't even imagine the shit jobs you must have to work to put food in the table- you call it "honest work" but you and I both know you fear immigrant caravans because they are basically just herds of people who could do your job better than you- and cheaper.

There is a difference between an alcoholic and a person who drinks.

There is a difference between someone who has epilepsy and someone who enjoys strobe lights.

There is a difference between someone who is a drug addict and someone who uses drugs.

You can't find any of these things through blood tests... there are ways of interpreting brain waves and obvious signs when the person is interacting with their stimuli. There are hundreds of books and studies over the course of the last century proving my point- and literally none that prove yours. Arguing with someone so determined to take their own personal experience and adamantly defend the stance that their experience is the only possible experience that any other person has had or will have is like arguing with a 3 year old. If you wanted to know- you would probably listen to some audio books and find out. Don't let how slowly you read deter you from the truth.

I am fascinated by your fixation on woman beating though... did I slap your mom when I was high? Or did I send your wife home with bruises? The funny thing is that quite a few woman ask to be slapped around in the sack... choked- whatever. They are just so relieved to have a guy stretch out the vagina that they want that pain everywhere- but don't blame them. Little guy is what they call you once they can breath again- ironic you should use the term.

Oh well. I promise my life is as easy as it gets- I hope one day you can pay off your trailer and survive on social security- I really do. You work too hard and deserve a break little guy. You really do.

 

[Havah]

Suicide is undoubtedly a choice. Is that really your logic?

Also, if it is so clear cut and dry a true disease then please answer the question, when does it become a disease? Where is the line drawn from choice to disease? I'm curious?

Saying not believing addiction itself is a disease is like believing the earth is flat may be one of the most overexagerated comment I have heard in a while. I had a good laugh at that one. It's almost like claiming @brutus79 is a decent human being and not some woman beating, white hating peice of shit.

Everyone that is getting so mad about this shows me you want it to be a disease so you have an excuse for your own sctions.

Well you re ignorant about suicide aswell, big surprise

And I was lucky enough to never have any issues with addiction, thanks for asking

Take care man and dont forget to spread this very unique deep and wise thinking around you

 

[valuum]

Addiction manifests itself far beyond just drug use. Every addict I know picks up something different when they get clean and takes it to an extreme.

It’s just being fucked in the head. When you see a mentally ill person on the news for committing a crime their mental illness doesn’t absolve them of guilt. No one is saying addiction should absolve a person from robbing the gas station, but just acknowledge it was a factor

 

[brutus79]

Addiction manifests itself far beyond just drug use. Every addict I know picks up something different when they get clean and takes it to an extreme.

It’s just being fucked in the head. When you see a mentally ill person on the news for committing a crime their mental illness doesn’t absolve them of guilt. No one is saying addiction should absolve a person from robbing the gas station, but just acknowledge it was a factor

Gold star- you get it.

 

[movingiron88]

I don't have it hard... not even close. I can't even imagine the shit jobs you must have to work to put food in the table- you call it "honest work" but you and I both know you fear immigrant caravans because they are basically just herds of people who could do your job better than you- and cheaper.

There is a difference between an alcoholic and a person who drinks.

There is a difference between someone who has epilepsy and someone who enjoys strobe lights.

There is a difference between someone who is a drug addict and someone who uses drugs.

You can't find any of these things through blood tests... there are ways of interpreting brain waves and obvious signs when the person is interacting with their stimuli. There are hundreds of books and studies over the course of the last century proving my point- and literally none that prove yours. Arguing with someone so determined to take their own personal experience and adamantly defend the stance that their experience is the only possible experience that any other person has had or will have is like arguing with a 3 year old. If you wanted to know- you would probably listen to some audio books and find out. Don't let how slowly you read deter you from the truth.

I am fascinated by your fixation on woman beating though... did I slap your mom when I was high? Or did I send your wife home with bruises? The funny thing is that quite a few woman ask to be slapped around in the sack... choked- whatever. They are just so relieved to have a guy stretch out the vagina that they want that pain everywhere- but don't blame them. Little guy is what they call you once they can breath again- ironic you should use the term.

Oh well. I promise my life is as easy as it gets- I hope one day you can pay off your trailer and survive on social security- I really do. You work too hard and deserve a break little guy. You really do.

Come on, you guys make the claim that it is fact and everybody knows it, but yet you cannot answer the question. @brutus79 pathetically tried but gave up like usual by saying there are books and studies that's all. Ummm yea so all this knowledge then where does addiction become a disease? @brutus79 says you need to check brain waves lol.

Ok but really for my knowledge when does addiction cross the line of being a disease? If you have the "disease" but are addicted to positive things like the gym, work, etc then that is not a disease? Most people that do get clean get addicted to something else, if that something isnt a negative thing then that's not the "disease"???

Please make me see the light because no one yet has proven anything except that @brutus79 thinks he is tough because he beat up a few women.

Please distinguish how to tell the difference between the "disease" addiction and just being addicted.

 

[movingiron88]

Well you re ignorant about suicide aswell, big surprise

And I was lucky enough to never have any issues with addiction, thanks for asking

Take care man and dont forget to spread this very unique deep and wise thinking around you

I'm pretty sure they killed themselves that's why it's called suicide.

 

[Havah]

Come on, you guys make the claim that it is fact and everybody knows it, but yet you cannot answer the question. @brutus79 pathetically tried but gave up like usual by saying there are books and studies that's all. Ummm yea so all this knowledge then where does addiction become a disease? @brutus79 says you need to check brain waves lol.

Ok but really for my knowledge when does addiction cross the line of being a disease? If you have the "disease" but are addicted to positive things like the gym, work, etc then that is not a disease? Most people that do get clean get addicted to something else, if that something isnt a negative thing then that's not the "disease"???

Please make me see the light because no one yet has proven anything except that @brutus79 thinks he is tough because he beat up a few women.

Please distinguish how to tell the difference between the "disease" addiction and just being addicted.

That question is answered by looking up dsm 5 criteria for addiction, back to the basis

 

[Seattle23]

Is addiction a “brain disease”? - Harvard Health Blog

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra1511480

Addiction as a Disease

For people that don't have the disease, I can understand their ignorance.

 

[The Terminator]

Come on, you guys make the claim that it is fact and everybody knows it, but yet you cannot answer the question. @brutus79 pathetically tried but gave up like usual by saying there are books and studies that's all. Ummm yea so all this knowledge then where does addiction become a disease? @brutus79 says you need to check brain waves lol.

Ok but really for my knowledge when does addiction cross the line of being a disease? If you have the "disease" but are addicted to positive things like the gym, work, etc then that is not a disease? Most people that do get clean get addicted to something else, if that something isnt a negative thing then that's not the "disease"???

Please make me see the light because no one yet has proven anything except that @brutus79 thinks he is tough because he beat up a few women.

Please distinguish how to tell the difference between the "disease" addiction and just being addicted.

In my unprofessional opinion the difference between someone who is simply a user and one who is an addict with a “disease” would be the simple user will use alcohol and other drugs socially/occasionally and does it for fun, doesn’t really run their lives and can stop quite easily when necessary. The one with the disease is consumed by the chemical of choice, it becomes their sole purpose in life, everything is neglected, drugs come before family including children, work, etc. They use despite the all the negative consequences, the use even tho they may not want to use, but because their brain has associated the chemical as an essential need to survival like food, water, sleep because they manipulate the same hormones. They may have started to cope with some other mental issue like anxiety or depression or may have developed those etc.

I used to be an opioid addict, that also got addicted to benzos but I’m not an expert.

 

[Burrr]

I think its interesting how different people, and different ethnicities have different addictions.
Personally, nicotine was the hard one for me. I had no problems quitting opioids or cocaine. Really liked weed, but not addicted. Never cared much for the alcohol buzz.
Alcoholism is one that you can see patterns in, those ethnicities that have had alcohol around for 15000 years have had time to weed out those with the genes for alcoholism.
Those that only recently made the change from hunter gatherer to agricultural life are way more predisposed to becoming alcoholics.

Some people crave sugar and carbs way more than others.
I guess most of these additions have the release of dopamine at the core.

 

[Burrr]

My habits, fresh as it gets.

 

[Oldschool]

My habits, fresh as it gets.View attachment 109396

You take gay for toke?

Just kidding but that is pretty pretty.

 

[brutus79]

Come on, you guys make the claim that it is fact and everybody knows it, but yet you cannot answer the question. @brutus79 pathetically tried but gave up like usual by saying there are books and studies that's all. Ummm yea so all this knowledge then where does addiction become a disease? @brutus79 says you need to check brain waves lol.

Ok but really for my knowledge when does addiction cross the line of being a disease? If you have the "disease" but are addicted to positive things like the gym, work, etc then that is not a disease? Most people that do get clean get addicted to something else, if that something isnt a negative thing then that's not the "disease"???

Please make me see the light because no one yet has proven anything except that @brutus79 thinks he is tough because he beat up a few women.

Please distinguish how to tell the difference between the "disease" addiction and just being addicted.

I would seriously give my left nut to see live video of you and everyone who shares DNA with you in an airtight room and a running vehicle. I would have multiple orgasms on the screen watching the asphyxiation party.

I gave you the definition word for word and you STILL ARE ASKING what makes a disease? Holy. Fucking. Shit. You make your average shit for brains bodybuilder look good with your lack of cognition.

 

[movingiron88]

In my unprofessional opinion the difference between someone who is simply a user and one who is an addict with a “disease” would be the simple user will use alcohol and other drugs socially/occasionally and does it for fun, doesn’t really run their lives and can stop quite easily when necessary. The one with the disease is consumed by the chemical of choice, it becomes their sole purpose in life, everything is neglected, drugs come before family including children, work, etc. They use despite the all the negative consequences, the use even tho they may not want to use, but because their brain has associated the chemical as an essential need to survival like food, water, sleep because they manipulate the same hormones. They may have started to cope with some other mental issue like anxiety or depression or may have developed those etc.

I used to be an opioid addict, that also got addicted to benzos but I’m not an expert.

Thank you for actually trying to answer the question.

So saying your addicted to nicotine and used to be addicted to opioids etc, do you think you have the "disease"?

So there are a million things an addict can be addicted to. Is it a disease if it is not necessarily bad for your life?

And the next question is, do if an addict can quit or does get clean does that mean they do not have the "disease"?

The difference between the disease and just being an addict seems really hard to distinguish.