Nothing you can do but wait and see. You can try and take some antacids/magnesium to block absorption. If it's in and it's gonna hurt ya, it's gonna hurt ya. Nothing you can do. It basically fucks up how your tendons remodel.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Fluoroquinolone
- Thread starter CubbieBlue
- Start date
Nothing you can do but wait and see. You can try and take some antacids/magnesium to block absorption. If it's in and it's gonna hurt ya, it's gonna hurt ya. Nothing you can do. It basically fucks up how your tendons remodel.
JakeZ
New Member
Do doctors not know how dangerous these antibiotics are or do they simply give a fuck about their patients!? Seriously this makes me angry! 
Why hand out this shit if there are other ABs which are safer!?
Why hand out this shit if there are other ABs which are safer!?
hardasnails1973
New Member
Just started to.compile information on which genetic mutations are showing up as a common trend in these cases. Looking into possible mutations which are associated with.mitochondrion function. Found several snps which need further research. Tomorrow contacting one of the leading specialist in mitochondrion dysfunction to see if he can shed some information.
Well, you really don't ever know the whole story. But consider that Docs are actually in the business of helping folks get better. So consider this, they have the latest information as to what the protocols are for what antibiotics are working for what (you would think or at least it should be available to them).
Still, its a matter of the BENEFIT outweighing the RISK. And unfortunately, there is no doubt that there are docs out there who will write a script with little thought beyond the quality of the drug rep's blowjob, or how many POINTs they have scored with the manufacturer via pharmacy/CVS/Walgreens sales tracked back to the doc...
Also, when you are dealing with so many folks and so many unknowns, there must just come a time in a docs logic process that he has to put some faith in the STATISTICs. You have to DEFINE "malpractice", and how many patients may have worsened or suffered Complication$ due to lack of appropriate treatment.
!! AND NO DISCOUNT TO CUBBIE or anyone else having suffered any misfortune via use of these drugs.. I Knock on wood NOW (and funny its early in the AM and I'm gonna have to hit the wood floors -cause their AINT no teak in these shorts today
..
But the point is that what is the point of going to the doc if they are not going to try to help you??! And you must consider that I suspect the old school "non-prescribing docs" are becoming endangered species. And probably a good think because in my experience with them, they usually cross so far over the line as to keeping patients on the most "natural approach", that it borders very risky. So you have "script docs" and Non-script docs"..
Typically, their thoughts today are that Keflex is useless, and I swear some of them still write the penicillin based stuff just cause they are so used to doing it. These being "first wave soft tissue antibiotics" I think... I used to be able to use clarithromycin for that green sinus funk every year, but every year. And you got to get the brand name Biaxin with the time release if you dont want your stomach ripped a new arse.. But some of the interaction I have had with docs leads me to think they usually wait for as long as possible prior to writing a quinolone for upper respiratory, and only when they become really persistent and steadfast, will they write them to "knock something out"..
As I think I posted earlier in this thread. After discussion with my doc, I decided to do a ten day round of Axelox, which is a third generation quinolone (I think). This was two or three years ago. It whipped that sinus bug so bad that I have had no further annual problems with it, and after a lifetime of the annual "green wonder"... The funny thing is now I have started to get an upper chest bug more viral in nature I suspect and ever since. Could be just the timing of all the new bugs out there I suspect. But you have to wonder was I previously habitated by a bacteria that had some protective qualities toward common chest viruses? Cause I NEVER dealt with colds in the past. At least not beyond the two weeks it took to turn green and then deal with the eternal post sinus drip from said bacteria that always seemed to fire up quickly..! I find the colds so damn draining and debilitating I really dont know. Now its only 2 weeks of chest cold followed by 6 weeks of weakness. Before it was really just months of sinus drip causing me to cough all damn night..
And the Reason I was posting is just pointing out that in my experience with Avelox, I could feel the neurological effects from the avelox taking hold and growing daily in a linear fashion, and most notably in my forearms, as they were getting sore on he "golfer's tendon". Every day it got harder to straighten my arms in the morning/ Discontinued on day 8 at doc's agreed discretion. But from there all the tendon tightness subsided and never returned.
That's an interesting post above (@HANS). Are you saying that they are determining now that some of these antibiotics are causing permanent genetic mutations?? I guess I could see changes in population and activity considering the scope of the general nuking of the digestive tract that occurs with many of these drugs, and the given risk during the process of "proper re-population" post antibiotic use... But that sounds like you are implying changes in the fundamental driving factors behind the cellular generating physical composition.??!!
Still, its a matter of the BENEFIT outweighing the RISK. And unfortunately, there is no doubt that there are docs out there who will write a script with little thought beyond the quality of the drug rep's blowjob, or how many POINTs they have scored with the manufacturer via pharmacy/CVS/Walgreens sales tracked back to the doc...
Also, when you are dealing with so many folks and so many unknowns, there must just come a time in a docs logic process that he has to put some faith in the STATISTICs. You have to DEFINE "malpractice", and how many patients may have worsened or suffered Complication$ due to lack of appropriate treatment.!! AND NO DISCOUNT TO CUBBIE or anyone else having suffered any misfortune via use of these drugs.. I Knock on wood NOW (and funny its early in the AM and I'm gonna have to hit the wood floors -cause their AINT no teak in these shorts today
..But the point is that what is the point of going to the doc if they are not going to try to help you??! And you must consider that I suspect the old school "non-prescribing docs" are becoming endangered species. And probably a good think because in my experience with them, they usually cross so far over the line as to keeping patients on the most "natural approach", that it borders very risky. So you have "script docs" and Non-script docs"..
Typically, their thoughts today are that Keflex is useless, and I swear some of them still write the penicillin based stuff just cause they are so used to doing it. These being "first wave soft tissue antibiotics" I think... I used to be able to use clarithromycin for that green sinus funk every year, but every year. And you got to get the brand name Biaxin with the time release if you dont want your stomach ripped a new arse.. But some of the interaction I have had with docs leads me to think they usually wait for as long as possible prior to writing a quinolone for upper respiratory, and only when they become really persistent and steadfast, will they write them to "knock something out"..
As I think I posted earlier in this thread. After discussion with my doc, I decided to do a ten day round of Axelox, which is a third generation quinolone (I think). This was two or three years ago. It whipped that sinus bug so bad that I have had no further annual problems with it, and after a lifetime of the annual "green wonder"... The funny thing is now I have started to get an upper chest bug more viral in nature I suspect and ever since. Could be just the timing of all the new bugs out there I suspect. But you have to wonder was I previously habitated by a bacteria that had some protective qualities toward common chest viruses? Cause I NEVER dealt with colds in the past. At least not beyond the two weeks it took to turn green and then deal with the eternal post sinus drip from said bacteria that always seemed to fire up quickly..! I find the colds so damn draining and debilitating I really dont know. Now its only 2 weeks of chest cold followed by 6 weeks of weakness. Before it was really just months of sinus drip causing me to cough all damn night..
And the Reason I was posting is just pointing out that in my experience with Avelox, I could feel the neurological effects from the avelox taking hold and growing daily in a linear fashion, and most notably in my forearms, as they were getting sore on he "golfer's tendon". Every day it got harder to straighten my arms in the morning/ Discontinued on day 8 at doc's agreed discretion. But from there all the tendon tightness subsided and never returned.
That's an interesting post above (@HANS). Are you saying that they are determining now that some of these antibiotics are causing permanent genetic mutations?? I guess I could see changes in population and activity considering the scope of the general nuking of the digestive tract that occurs with many of these drugs, and the given risk during the process of "proper re-population" post antibiotic use... But that sounds like you are implying changes in the fundamental driving factors behind the cellular generating physical composition.??!!
Do doctors not know how dangerous these antibiotics are or do they simply give a fuck about their patients!? Seriously this makes me angry!
Why hand out this shit if there are other ABs which are safer!?
Just received this email and since this thread exists.....
Fluoroquinolone Antibacterial Drugs: Drug Safety Communication- Risk for possibly permanent nerve damage
AUDIENCE: Family Practice, Infectious Disease, Pharmacy
ISSUE: FDA has required the drug labels and Medication Guides for all fluoroquinolone antibacterial drugs be updated to better describe the serious side effect of peripheral neuropathy. This serious nerve damage potentially caused by fluoroquinolones may occur soon after these drugs are taken and may be permanent.
BACKGROUND: The risk of peripheral neuropathy occurs only with fluoroquinolones that are taken by mouth or by injection. Approved fluoroquinolone drugs include levofloxacin (Levaquin), ciprofloxacin (Cipro), moxifloxacin (Avelox), norfloxacin (Noroxin), ofloxacin (Floxin), and gemifloxacin (Factive). The topical formulations of fluoroquinolones, applied to the ears or eyes, are not known to be associated with this risk.
RECOMMENDATION: Make sure your patients know to contact you if they develop symptoms of peripheral neuropathy. Make sure your patients receive the Medication Guide with every prescription. If a patient develops symptoms of peripheral neuropathy, the fluoroquinolone should be stopped, and the patient should be switched to another, non-fluoroquinolone antibacterial drug, unless the benefit of continued treatment with a fluoroquinolone outweighs the risk. Healthcare professionals and patients are encouraged to report adverse events or side effects related to the use of these products to the FDA's MedWatch Safety Information and Adverse Event Reporting Program:
Complete and submit the report Online: www.fda.gov/MedWatch/report.htm
Download form or call 1-800-332-1088 to request a reporting form, then complete and return to the address on the pre-addressed form, or submit by fax to 1-800-FDA-0178
Read the complete MedWatch Safety Alert, including a link to the Drug Safety Communication, at:
http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/SafetyInformation/SafetyAlertsforHumanMedicalProducts/ucm365302.htm
Fluoroquinolone Antibacterial Drugs: Drug Safety Communication- Risk for possibly permanent nerve damage
AUDIENCE: Family Practice, Infectious Disease, Pharmacy
ISSUE: FDA has required the drug labels and Medication Guides for all fluoroquinolone antibacterial drugs be updated to better describe the serious side effect of peripheral neuropathy. This serious nerve damage potentially caused by fluoroquinolones may occur soon after these drugs are taken and may be permanent.
BACKGROUND: The risk of peripheral neuropathy occurs only with fluoroquinolones that are taken by mouth or by injection. Approved fluoroquinolone drugs include levofloxacin (Levaquin), ciprofloxacin (Cipro), moxifloxacin (Avelox), norfloxacin (Noroxin), ofloxacin (Floxin), and gemifloxacin (Factive). The topical formulations of fluoroquinolones, applied to the ears or eyes, are not known to be associated with this risk.
RECOMMENDATION: Make sure your patients know to contact you if they develop symptoms of peripheral neuropathy. Make sure your patients receive the Medication Guide with every prescription. If a patient develops symptoms of peripheral neuropathy, the fluoroquinolone should be stopped, and the patient should be switched to another, non-fluoroquinolone antibacterial drug, unless the benefit of continued treatment with a fluoroquinolone outweighs the risk. Healthcare professionals and patients are encouraged to report adverse events or side effects related to the use of these products to the FDA's MedWatch Safety Information and Adverse Event Reporting Program:
Complete and submit the report Online: www.fda.gov/MedWatch/report.htm
Download form or call 1-800-332-1088 to request a reporting form, then complete and return to the address on the pre-addressed form, or submit by fax to 1-800-FDA-0178
Read the complete MedWatch Safety Alert, including a link to the Drug Safety Communication, at:
http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/SafetyInformation/SafetyAlertsforHumanMedicalProducts/ucm365302.htm
Lee C, Lee M, Chen Y, et al. Risk of Aortic Dissection and Aortic Aneurysm in Patients Taking Oral Fluoroquinolone. JAMA Intern Med. Published online October 05, 2015. http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleID=2451282
Importance Fluoroquinolones have been associated with collagen degradation, raising safety concerns related to more serious collagen disorders with use of these antibiotics, including aortic aneurysm and dissection.
Objective To examine the relationship between fluoroquinolone therapy and the risk of developing aortic aneurysm and dissection.
Design, Setting, and Participants We conducted a nested case-control analysis of 1477 case patients and 147 700 matched control cases from Taiwan’s National Health Insurance Research Database (NHIRD) from among 1 million individuals longitudinally observed from January 2000 through December 2011. Cases patients were defined as those hospitalized for aortic aneurysm or dissection. One hundred control patients were matched for each case based on age and sex.
Exposures Current, past, or any prior-year use of fluoroquinolone. Current use was defined as a filled fluoroquinolone prescription within 60 days of the aortic aneurysm or dissection; past use refers to a filled fluoroquinolone prescription between 61 and 365 days prior to the aortic aneurysm; and any prior-year use refers to having a fluoroquinolone prescription filled for 3 or more days any time during the 1-year period before the aortic aneurysm or dissection.
Main Outcomes and Measures Risk of developing aortic aneurysm or dissection.
Results A total of 1477 individuals who experienced aortic aneurysm or dissection were matched to 147 700 controls. After propensity score adjustment, current use of fluoroquinolones was found to be associated with increased risk for aortic aneurysm or dissection (rate ratio [RR], 2.43; 95% CI, 1.83-3.22), as was past use, although this risk was attenuated (RR, 1.48; 95% CI, 1.18-1.86). Sensitivity analysis focusing on aortic aneurysm and dissection requiring surgery also demonstrated an increased risk associated with current fluoroquinolone use, but the increase was not statistically significant (propensity score–adjusted RR, 2.15; 95% CI, 0.97-4.60).
Conclusions and Relevance Use of fluoroquinolones was associated with an increased risk of aortic aneurysm and dissection. While these were rare events, physicians should be aware of this possible drug safety risk associated with fluoroquinolone therapy.
Importance Fluoroquinolones have been associated with collagen degradation, raising safety concerns related to more serious collagen disorders with use of these antibiotics, including aortic aneurysm and dissection.
Objective To examine the relationship between fluoroquinolone therapy and the risk of developing aortic aneurysm and dissection.
Design, Setting, and Participants We conducted a nested case-control analysis of 1477 case patients and 147 700 matched control cases from Taiwan’s National Health Insurance Research Database (NHIRD) from among 1 million individuals longitudinally observed from January 2000 through December 2011. Cases patients were defined as those hospitalized for aortic aneurysm or dissection. One hundred control patients were matched for each case based on age and sex.
Exposures Current, past, or any prior-year use of fluoroquinolone. Current use was defined as a filled fluoroquinolone prescription within 60 days of the aortic aneurysm or dissection; past use refers to a filled fluoroquinolone prescription between 61 and 365 days prior to the aortic aneurysm; and any prior-year use refers to having a fluoroquinolone prescription filled for 3 or more days any time during the 1-year period before the aortic aneurysm or dissection.
Main Outcomes and Measures Risk of developing aortic aneurysm or dissection.
Results A total of 1477 individuals who experienced aortic aneurysm or dissection were matched to 147 700 controls. After propensity score adjustment, current use of fluoroquinolones was found to be associated with increased risk for aortic aneurysm or dissection (rate ratio [RR], 2.43; 95% CI, 1.83-3.22), as was past use, although this risk was attenuated (RR, 1.48; 95% CI, 1.18-1.86). Sensitivity analysis focusing on aortic aneurysm and dissection requiring surgery also demonstrated an increased risk associated with current fluoroquinolone use, but the increase was not statistically significant (propensity score–adjusted RR, 2.15; 95% CI, 0.97-4.60).
Conclusions and Relevance Use of fluoroquinolones was associated with an increased risk of aortic aneurysm and dissection. While these were rare events, physicians should be aware of this possible drug safety risk associated with fluoroquinolone therapy.
Controlled Poison . That's what the Fluoroquinolone are....
Took me 2 years to lift again after only 10 days of Cipro.
Poison.
Took me 2 years to lift again after only 10 days of Cipro.
Poison.
zardoz1
New Member
wow. ive taking cipro and levaquin for my prostate problems and have read about tendon issues but damn 2 years to start back up. really bad. after reading all these posts shit is more dangerous than i knew. my uro gives me bactrim now for prostatitis. how safe are sulfa based antibiotics? it works well i know my daughter is allergic to them. fluoroquinine ones ill deffintely stay away from.
Goodluck Zardoz, different antibiotics react different in different people , the FQ"s are by far the worst if you look at statistics . Some folks have problems with sulfur based antibiotics but they give me no problems . It's a highly individual situation , just like steroids . Goodluck & stay away from the FQ"s ....~Ogh
Bactrim is one good choice as is doxycycline assuming no allergies to either.
Re: bladder sphincter muscle spasms: try supplementing with Magnesium Citrate (300 to 400 mg/day) as it is a mild muscle relaxant.
FYI
http://www.drbriffa.com/2008/07/28/...a-prostate-problem-but-a-nutrient-deficiency/
http://www.drbriffa.com/2010/01/29/magnesium-therapy-found-to-benefit-asthmatics/
Re: bladder sphincter muscle spasms: try supplementing with Magnesium Citrate (300 to 400 mg/day) as it is a mild muscle relaxant.
FYI
http://www.drbriffa.com/2008/07/28/...a-prostate-problem-but-a-nutrient-deficiency/
http://www.drbriffa.com/2010/01/29/magnesium-therapy-found-to-benefit-asthmatics/
FYI - i never thought Doxy was a good antibiotic fir the skin pertaining. But apparently it is. I suspect medical science is trying to keep this one "fresh" with regard to skin, staph, strep, ETC.
Supra based finally got me a couple years back and reported as skin irritation, rash, redness, tenderness, and blistering even kinda resembling SJS. Broke out around foot and ankle for whatever reason. also they work poorly IMHO.
ALSO - it turns out that not only is Doxy highly likely to hurt ur esophagus BAD if you don't swallow well / BUT NEVER TAKE EXPIRED DOXY - it will FUCK-UP your internal organs..!!! Liver, kidneys, and maybe even heart. But I don't recall the read precisely...
Supra based finally got me a couple years back and reported as skin irritation, rash, redness, tenderness, and blistering even kinda resembling SJS. Broke out around foot and ankle for whatever reason. also they work poorly IMHO.
ALSO - it turns out that not only is Doxy highly likely to hurt ur esophagus BAD if you don't swallow well / BUT NEVER TAKE EXPIRED DOXY - it will FUCK-UP your internal organs..!!! Liver, kidneys, and maybe even heart. But I don't recall the read precisely...
Bactrim is one good choice as is doxycycline assuming no allergies to either.
Re: bladder sphincter muscle spasms: try supplementing with Magnesium Citrate (300 to 400 mg/day) as it is a mild muscle relaxant.
Anyone wanting to add or clarify please now..
http://www.drbriffa.com/2008/07/28/...a-prostate-problem-but-a-nutrient-deficiency/
http://www.drbriffa.com/2010/01/29/magnesium-therapy-found-to-benefit-asthmatics/
Killing the tenant without hurting the landlord is a very tricky business. They're all poisonous shit, BBC, and are best avoided unless absolutely necessary.
hardasnails1973
New Member
Just think about all the soldiers from the Iraq war taking Cipro before going over for their tour of duty. I have several cases dealing with FQ toxicity as noted from their detailed history. One of them a close friend was the one who initiate the national investigation to their impact on soldiers. These are also triggering a lot of hidden pathogen in regards to their impact on immune system. Have several cases to where they where the catalyst or icing on the cake. They destroyed tendons in my left elbow extension ROM by 20 degrees inducing major shoulder pain.
You may have got it. But I re-read and came across VERY CONVOLUTED.. So to CLAIRFY..
(and for all you hoarders out there preparing for Armageddon) - Doxycycline has a short shelf life. ONCE IT HAS EXPIRED... IT WILL FUCK YOU UP...!!!
I also see that I replied in a "quinolone thread". Doxy is not a quinolone antibiotic and does not apply to the potential neurologic "side effects" (AKA - OTHER EFFECTS)
to my knowledge as LIMITED...
(and for all you hoarders out there preparing for Armageddon) - Doxycycline has a short shelf life. ONCE IT HAS EXPIRED... IT WILL FUCK YOU UP...!!!
I also see that I replied in a "quinolone thread". Doxy is not a quinolone antibiotic and does not apply to the potential neurologic "side effects" (AKA - OTHER EFFECTS)
to my knowledge as LIMITED...
When antibiotics [fluoroquinolones] turn toxic
When antibiotics turn toxic
Levofloxacin is one of a class of drugs called fluoroquinolones, some of the world’s most commonly prescribed antibiotics. In the United States in 2015, doctors doled out 32 million prescriptions for the drugs, making them the country’s fourth-most popular class of antibiotic.
But for a small percentage of people, fluoroquinolones have developed a bad reputation. On websites and Facebook groups with names such as Floxie Hope and My Quin Story, thousands of people who have fallen ill after fluoroquinolone treatment gather to share experiences.
Many of them describe a devastating and progressive condition, encompassing symptoms ranging from psychiatric and sensory disturbances to problems with muscles, tendons and nerves that continue after people have stopped taking the drugs. They call it being ‘floxed’. ...
In 2008, the FDA announced ‘black box’ warnings of tendon rupture among those given the antibiotics; in 2013, it added a risk of irreversible nerve damage. (Such warnings are placed inside a black box on drug labels, and call attention to serious or life-threatening risks.) ...
Accumulating evidence suggests that fluoroquinolones are damaging mitochondria, the power packs inside human cells that evolved from symbiotic, bacteria-like cells billions of years ago. This kind of harm can affect every cell in the body, explaining why a wide range of symptoms can appear and get worse over time.
When antibiotics turn toxic
Levofloxacin is one of a class of drugs called fluoroquinolones, some of the world’s most commonly prescribed antibiotics. In the United States in 2015, doctors doled out 32 million prescriptions for the drugs, making them the country’s fourth-most popular class of antibiotic.
But for a small percentage of people, fluoroquinolones have developed a bad reputation. On websites and Facebook groups with names such as Floxie Hope and My Quin Story, thousands of people who have fallen ill after fluoroquinolone treatment gather to share experiences.
Many of them describe a devastating and progressive condition, encompassing symptoms ranging from psychiatric and sensory disturbances to problems with muscles, tendons and nerves that continue after people have stopped taking the drugs. They call it being ‘floxed’. ...
In 2008, the FDA announced ‘black box’ warnings of tendon rupture among those given the antibiotics; in 2013, it added a risk of irreversible nerve damage. (Such warnings are placed inside a black box on drug labels, and call attention to serious or life-threatening risks.) ...
Accumulating evidence suggests that fluoroquinolones are damaging mitochondria, the power packs inside human cells that evolved from symbiotic, bacteria-like cells billions of years ago. This kind of harm can affect every cell in the body, explaining why a wide range of symptoms can appear and get worse over time.
7.5 years later, getting continued validation.
As for me, I have slowly made a near full recovery. I still am prone to soft tissue injury, and have had a flare up or two over the last three years, but I am OK with my new normal.
Practicing brazilian jiu jitsu 4 x per week and lifting the other 3.
I credit a consistent dose of curcuminoids and prolotherapy/PRP for keeping me very active and keeping my tendons and ligaments mobile.
As for me, I have slowly made a near full recovery. I still am prone to soft tissue injury, and have had a flare up or two over the last three years, but I am OK with my new normal.
Practicing brazilian jiu jitsu 4 x per week and lifting the other 3.
I credit a consistent dose of curcuminoids and prolotherapy/PRP for keeping me very active and keeping my tendons and ligaments mobile.
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