"Generic" GH ASSAYS

[ProfessorX]

I would wait a couple more weeks and no need to spike your GH before testing. They do that before testing GH serum levels. And serum levels I don't really have faith in.

Just keep up with normal shooting schedule before testing.

mands

There's a test that we've used (It Mimics a Norditropin test) for a quicker IGF1 result

At 4-5ius IGF1 serum should reach "saturation" in 7-10 days

So having done no previous exogenous GH before starting the test.....

Inject 4(5)ius a.m. SubQ for 10days then do IGF1 Serum

It's also best to have done IGF1 Serums at similar dosing with other products (PHARMA/Generic) for comparison.

As 'Muscle96ss'' stated previously.....there are occasions where no serum elevation or minimal serum elevation can happen. (Happens more than I previously thought) It's not always a reflection of the product. Having other serums done helps for comparison

Just a thought since there will be lots of blood work to compare to the testing done by you and 'Jim'. This could speed up the process a bit

Also, will TP still be posting some of his lab analysis results?

Thanx

 

[Wunderpus]

There's a test that we've used (It Mimics a Norditropin test) for a quicker IGF1 result

At 4-5ius IGF1 serum should reach "saturation" in 7-10 days

So having done no previous exogenous GH......

Inject 4(5)ius a.m. SubQ for 10days then do IGF1 Serum

It's also best to have done IGF1 Serums at similar dosing with other products (PHARMA/Generic) for comparison.

As 'Muscles' stated previously.....there are occasions where no serum elevation or minimal serum elevation can happen. It's not always a reflection of the product. Having other serums done helps for comparison

Just a thought since there will be lots of blood work to compare to the testing done by you and 'Jim'. This could speed up the process a bit

Also, will TP still be posting some of his lab analysis results?

Thanx

I will have bloods pulled on the same batch that Jim is testing, I will plan on just IGF-1 levels... Unfortunately, I don't have a baseline. However, it will be on 10iu of GH, so, it should be pretty obvious assuming the GH is good.

 

[ProfessorX]

Good Deal

Doing Lab Analyis and Blood Work on vials from the same kit is ideal

I hope TP comes back. I think everyone can benefit (including sources) from the testing Mands and Jim are doing.

 

[Dr JIM]

It's in the thread so are multiple bad gh serum tests around the board on pharmatropin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Im with you bro. I have not tested my IGF 1 yet on this as i just started the pharmatropin.

Id start by reading THIS ENTIRE THREAD, bc I and MANDS are simply not going to REPOST every sample once cited, to satisfy the whims of Meso noobs!

 

[Dr JIM]

there are occasions where no serum elevation or minimal serum elevation can happen. (Happens more than I previously thought) It's not always a reflection of the product.

Thanx

And in such "situations" the GH quality becomes HIGHLY SUSPECT!

 

[Dr JIM]

1) There's a test that

2) At 4-5ius IGF1 serum should reach "saturation" in 7-10 days

Thanx

1) and what "test" is that?

2) I've no idea what your referring to, esp at such a short interval of 7-10 days.

IGF is a protein that requires TIME to manufacture and 7-10 days just isnt long enough at any GH dosage

 

[Dr JIM]

I will have bloods pulled on the same batch that Jim is testing, I will plan on just IGF-1 levels... Unfortunately, I don't have a baseline. However, it will be on 10iu of GH, so, it should be pretty obvious assuming the GH is good.

It may NOT be as obvious as it would seem WP and that's why a baseline IGF is a must if the intent is better QUALIFY the purity of a GH product.

The latter is how a serum IGF is best utilized, bc an AAA QUANTIFIES GH quite accurately with a margin of error of around 5%, IF performed correctly!

The margin of error is considerably less whenever a samples Amino Acid distribution better "fits" that which is most consistent with legitimate rHGH

For example; if an assay reveals a GH content of 10mg then it may contain anywhere between 9.5 OR 10.5 mg of GH.

 

[Dr JIM]

So a higher GH purity only INCREASES the validity of an AAA while lower purity GH DOES
have a tendency to decrease it to AS HIGH AS 5%.

WHAT IS GH PURITY?

Bc researchers are primarily interested in the qualities of GH that make it an effective hormone IN-VIVO the definition of purity is NOT one of QUANTITY or the amount of CONTAMINATES present.

GH PURITY IS
- the Amino Acid sequence,
- the correct distribution like 3 Valines, followed by 2 Cystines, then a Tryptohan
- the total number of AA which should be 191
- the absolute number of individual AA such as; Cystine 6, Valine 13, Tryptophan 4
- the correct folding pattern such as between AA # 23 and 94

and is noted in HUMAN GH

 

[Geterdun]

@Dr JIM just when I think I might understand a small crumb of all this information, you have to throw a post up and send me back to the drawing board.

 

[Dr JIM]

Now does anyone know which single assay can determine "purity" in absolute terms?

ZERO, ZILTCH, ZIPPO

So we are stuck doing what gives us the best bang for our buck an AAA and an IGF assay!

However on occasion probably every fifth sample or so, Mands and I will conduct an trypsin cleavage LC/MS to (the most reliable single "purity" assay) better ensure our AA purity data is accurate.

Fact is a LC/MS was conducted on the KEFEI and the results were considered "highly consistent" with GH.

The reason the data was NOT posted? Which one of those ONE HUNDRED or so pages
would Meso members understand or even read?

I mean no offense or disrespect but the fact IS posting "mounds" of data of this nature, only adds to the confusion, especially when your audiance is having difficulty understanding an AAA.

 

[Geterdun]

@Dr JIM i can't speak for anyone else, but your doing a perfect job of keeping me confused already.

 

[Dr JIM]

Here's an analogy for an AAA

Suppose someone dissasembled TEN IDENTICAL AND ONE DISSIMILAR vehicles into their component parts like the starter, alternator, ac, tires wheels etc and threw everything into a pile (this is what "hydrolysis does)

Now the chore for an AAA is to determine how many starters, alternators etc there are, and based on that info estimates the total NUMBER of VEHICLES present (11).

However the only means of determining WHAT (make, model and year) vehicles were present and to identify that single vehicle outlier EVERYTHING would require reassembly. This reassembly is how an AAA estimates "purity" .

I hope that helps
jim

 

[Geterdun]

Thank you.

 

[Dr JIM]

An LC/MS cuts GH, or in this comparison the vehicle at specific points, "cystine bridges" and obtains a Molecular Weight of each segment. The weight of the sample "cut point segments" can then be compared to the weight of identical KNOWN HGH segments to obtain comparative data.

So like if the AA Valine is/was inserted at a position where Glycine SHOLUD be a difference of 32 Daltons, an LC/MS will (depending upon the number of segments involved) detect the change and this alteration will impact a samples purity AVERAGE!

 

[Dr JIM]

@Dr JIM i can't speak for anyone else, but your doing a perfect job of keeping me confused already.

I'm sorry so you seem to be saying you wanna see how many of those ONE HUNDRED pages I just eluded to? Actually it's probably closer to FIFTY, but just the same what difference would that make, next to none in MY and MANDS opinion.

Or is this another instance where MORE is NOT necessarily better

 

[Dr JIM]

The analysis is posted in this thread. Sides mean nothing to me really. IGF-1 scores and actual product testing satisfies me.

What were your IGF-1 scores on 4-5 ius a day of pharmatropin?

mands

Damn you really gotta stop reading all that evidence based nonsense "Mands" and some "Jim" fellow are posting over on that Meso forum bro. Those guys have "gone soft" as bros dude

I know my Grand Mothers doctor adjusted her DIgitalis dosage based on side effects such as vomiting, and blurred vision, so there

 

[Beastmoderock]

One

 

[Mr.B66]

Now does anyone know which single assay can determine "purity" in absolute terms?

ZERO, ZILTCH, ZIPPO

So we are stuck doing what gives us the best bang for our buck an AAA and an IGF assay!

However on occasion probably every fifth sample or so, Mands and I will conduct an trypsin cleavage LC/MS to (the most reliable single "purity" assay) better ensure our AA purity data is accurate.

Fact is a LC/MS was conducted on the KEFEI and the results were considered "highly consistent" with GH.

The reason the data was NOT posted? Which one of those ONE HUNDRED or so pages
would Meso members understand or even read?

I mean no offense or disrespect but the fact IS posting "mounds" of data of this nature, only adds to the confusion, especially when your audiance is having difficulty understanding an AAA.

^^^^^^^^^Your talking about me aren't you [emoji853]

 

[Dr JIM]

^^^^^^^^^Your talking about me aren't you [emoji853]

NOPE !

I'm clarifying and differentiating the meaning of "GH purity" (since i just used the term) for ALL those on Meso.

 

[Dr JIM]

I mean GH purity is considerably different from what most RIGHTFULLY think of as "pure" from a PED perspective.

Bc AAS purity is actually a measure of contamination rather than a it's structural features, the latter being the case with GH