"Generic" GH ASSAYS

[Mr.B66]

NOPE !

I'm clarifying and differentiating the meaning of "GH purity" (since i just used the term) for ALL those on Meso.

Sorry Dr JIM, poor attempt at humor on my part. Your analogy with the cars was actually a big help for a simpleton such as myself, thank you for that.

 

[Dr JIM]

I do recall asking a few mates to define what they mean by purity bc the difference bt GH and most other PEDS is simply HUGE and for that reason the distinction is important.

 

[ronin17]

An LC/MS cuts GH, or in this comparison the vehicle at specific points, "cystine bridges" and obtains a Molecular Weight of each segment. The weight of the sample "cut point segments" can then be compared to the weight of identical KNOWN HGH segments to obtain comparative data.

So like if the AA Valine is/was inserted at a position where Glycine SHOLUD be a difference of 32 Daltons, an LC/MS will (depending upon the number of segments involved) detect the change and this alteration will impact a samples purity AVERAGE!

Finally, now I understand Lc\ms. This thread is yet another example of what sets meso apart.

 

[Dr JIM]

Here's an analogy for an AAA

Suppose someone dissasembled TEN IDENTICAL AND ONE DISSIMILAR vehicles into their component parts like the starter, alternator, ac, tires wheels etc and threw everything into a pile (this is what "hydrolysis does)

Now the chore for an AAA is to determine how many starters, alternators etc there are, and !) based on that info estimates the total NUMBER of VEHICLES present (11).

However the only means of determining 2) WHAT (make, model and year) vehicles were present and to identify that single vehicle outlier EVERYTHING would require reassembly.

3) This reassembly is how an AAA estimates "purity" .

I hope that helps
jim

TO CLARIFY the analogy I hope

#1 ) Would be the equivalent of how an AAA QUANTIFIES, a samples content in MG

#2) Would be the equivalent of how an AAA QUALIFIES a samples content as GROWTH Hormone

#3) Although reassembly would be primary difference, all of the above would be required to accurately estimate a samples purity,

 

[Dr JIM]

Finally, now I understand Lc\ms. This thread is yet another example of what sets meso apart.

OK so great Dr J then why are "we" not using this better assay, an LC/MS, on all them there samples sir?

Well ok since you asked
COST- the cost of an lc/ms can be as much as 25 X higher than an AAA ($2.5K vs $100 = high end for LC/MS and low end cost of AAA)

And bc of logistical reasons a GH related LC/MS is not reliable enough to QUANTIFY a samples content as in mg.

The fact is many if not MOST biochemists consider an AAA to be the SINGLE ASSAY Gold Standard for PEP analysis!)

 

[Geterdun]

@Dr JIM no sir, no need to post 50 pages of other data related material. I'm am confident you and @mands are doing a stellar job with this testing. At some point, there has to be a level of trust for you and Mands with respect to this testing. I have seen no reason not to trust the info you 2 are posting. Even if you did post the pages of data, I would still be confused with most of it. Your analogy with car parts did help a great deal, but it will take me much longer to understand everything.

 

[juicecravin]

So a higher GH purity only INCREASES the validity of an AAA while lower purity GH DOES
have a tendency to decrease it to AS HIGH AS 5%.

WHAT IS GH PURITY?

Bc researchers are primarily interested in the qualities of GH that make it an effective hormone IN-VIVO the definition of purity is NOT one of QUANTITY or the amount of CONTAMINATES present.

GH PURITY IS
- the Amino Acid sequence,
- the correct distribution like 3 Valines, followed by 2 Cystines, then a Tryptohan
- the total number of AA which should be 191
- the absolute number of individual AA such as; Cystine 6, Valine 13, Tryptophan 4
- the correct folding pattern such as between AA # 23 and 94

and is noted in HUMAN GH

ONCE AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW THE SAMPLE SOURCES or THEIR IDENTITY.

Yea I know the graph is rotated. That's happens occasionally when the data is printed on a "worksheet"(AKA a spread sheet).

The only other viable option would require sacrificing some of the "raw data".

SAMPLE # 13

@Dr JIM , Based on the info in these posts, am I correct in assuming that Sample 13 is the correct sequence and total number of aminos, but the proportion of GLX is greater in the sample than it should be?

Do you have full data (the 50-100+pages you referenced earlier) on this sample? If so, would you be willing to spend a little more time on it to see how close this sample comes to proper GH?

Honestly, I'm surprised any generics came even this close to what's advertised and am curious to see what your detailed opinion of it would be. I ran various generics for over a year, all that had great Serum results, but my IGF never increased past 160. Thus, I'm a firm believer that the bro science serum test is BS and most generics are just some peptide that give a fake serum result.

After switching to legitimate Seros, my IGF is now 496 on 6iu/day. However, that's quite pricey, so if this sample 13 is worth a damn, I might start cutting my sero's half and half with this product.

Thanks,
JC

 

[mands]

@Dr JIM , Based on the info in these posts, am I correct in assuming that Sample 13 is the correct sequence and total number of aminos, but the proportion of GLX is greater in the sample than it should be?

Do you have full data (the 50-100+pages you referenced earlier) on this sample? If so, would you be willing to spend a little more time on it to see how close this sample comes to proper GH?

Honestly, I'm surprised any generics came even this close to what's advertised and am curious to see what your detailed opinion of it would be. I ran various generics for over a year, all that had great Serum results, but my IGF never increased past 160. Thus, I'm a firm believer that the bro science serum test is BS and most generics are just some peptide that give a fake serum result.

After switching to legitimate Seros, my IGF is now 496 on 6iu/day. However, that's quite pricey, so if this sample 13 is worth a damn, I might start cutting my sero's half and half with this product.

Thanks,
JC

There is no peptide that will raise GH serum scores at the 2.5-3.5 hour mark.

mands

 

[juicecravin]

There is no peptide that will raise GH serum scores at the 2.5-3.5 hour mark.

mands

Ok, so it's "GH" but it isn't structured correctly or is inactive, or has some other reason for being useless in the body but still elevates serum GH levels when testing at the ~3hr mark

 

[mands]

Ok, so it's "GH" but it isn't structured correctly or is inactive, or has some other reason for being useless in the body but still elevates serum GH levels when testing at the ~3hr mark

I've seen studies that show excessive amounts of glycine can cause GH serum levels to increase.

mands

 

[mands]

@ProfessorX could you post some of your test that you've done on GH? It would be beneficial to all at MESO to see all types of tests.

Thanks you!

mands

 

[mands]

Sounds like @Dr JIM will be posting a couple samples today.

mands

 

[Dr JIM]

Sounds like @Dr JIM will be posting a couple samples today.

mands

Yea but I'll need some help locating that MANDS fella

 

[Wunderpus]

Yea but I'll need some help locating that MANDS fella

Jim, I have my summoning kit. Ready when you are!

 

[ProfessorX]

@ProfessorX could you post some of your test that you've done on GH? It would be beneficial to all at MESO to see all types of tests.

Thanks you!

mands

Yes

Jim was asking for this information:

Proteomic Profiling

Protein characterization

Up to 50,000 sequencing events. Includes UPLC-MS/MS on Q-Exactive Orbitrap via unbiased, data-dependent acquisition, inclusive of sample preparation and parallel multi-enzyme digestions using six enzymes, sequence library searching, relative quantitation and reporting via Proteome Cluster.

Intact protein mass measurement, fragmentation and sequencing by UPLC-MS/MS on Q-Exactive Orbitrap, 90 m, deconvolution of up to 20 mass envelopes

Ill post these test up

I have some SIMEC results, but they are only an assay sheet

 

[Pharmacom Helper]

You will guarantee what? I had my pharmacom tested and you see where it came out at. I have tagged @Pharmacom Labs @Pharmacom Helper three times about it and not one single reply.

Then you have TP who came over to try and help the situation and you jack asses run him off.

You will not be sending anything to @Dr JIM. If you would send anything it would go to me.

I just need to figure out how you will guarantee it will be close to 10 iu's?

mands

Hello Mands, Frank waiting for results of chromo of our GH, he will answer as soon as he will receive

 

[Wunderpus]

Hello Mands, Frank waiting for results of chromo of our GH, he will answer as soon as he will receive

 

[Dr JIM]

Hello Mands, Frank waiting for results of chromo of our GH, he will answer as soon as he will receive

Chromo?

An Amino Acid Assay has already been posted, how about Pharmacon comment on the QUANTITATIVE aspect of THOSE RESULTS first?

 

[Pharmacom Helper]

I still hope that it will happen before the apocalypse)

 

[ProfessorX]

So a higher GH purity only INCREASES the validity of an AAA while lower purity GH DOES
have a tendency to decrease it to AS HIGH AS 5%.

WHAT IS GH PURITY?

Bc researchers are primarily interested in the qualities of GH that make it an effective hormone IN-VIVO the definition of purity is NOT one of QUANTITY or the amount of CONTAMINATES present.

GH PURITY IS
- the Amino Acid sequence,
- the correct distribution like 3 Valines, followed by 2 Cystines, then a Tryptohan
- the total number of AA which should be 191
- the absolute number of individual AA such as; Cystine 6, Valine 13, Tryptophan 4
- the correct folding pattern such as between AA # 23 and 94

and is noted in HUMAN GH

Just some added info

I mentioned before that some were "hung up" on purity

TP mentioned it

API (Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients) "Raws" - "Powders" can be tested for "purity"

LC/MS/MS - 8.8mgs per 10mgs (88% purity)

rHGH

The biological effects, purity, and potency of a drug is governed by the chemical structure of the drug for both traditional drugs and biopharmaceuticals. Standard analytical methodologies used for structural analysis of conventional drugs are, however, inadequate for complete characterization of protein-based products.

Two main reasons for this inadequacy are the large molecular size and conformational flexibility of protein-based drugs. The large molecular size hinders the possibility to detect, for example, replacement or chemical modification of a single amino acid residue or a change in a single glycosylation site. These alterations of the biomolecule structure, however, may lead to subtle changes of the molecule conformation resulting in significant changes in the pharmacological properties of the product.

Additionally, the wrong choice of manufacturing conditions or formulation may lead to improperly folded polypeptide chains which are biologically inactive. Hence, further methodologies capable of analysis of the protein conformation are needed.