Tp greys?
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
"Generic" GH ASSAYS
- Thread starter Dr JIM
- Start date
Tp greys?
10c
New Member
Private and labs 1282674 coupon code for Sept. Wait couple weeks get bloods, with igf test. Some hormone panels say igf in description.
Thanks dr Jim an mands
To bad tp got run off.
Juzttinn
New Member
Thank you for the response, I'll shoot him a pm. Okay Ill wait and keep an eye out for the results for those. Ill also check out Private md for that test, I've used them before for blood work for aas. Thanks again.
Let me try this another way....I don't want to clog up you thread...this will be my last post on it.
Jim Stated:
"IGF is a protein that requires TIME to manufacture and 7-10 days just isnt long enough at any GH dosage"
Jim Stated:
"What you're suggesting is contrary to every medical protocol using IGF as a biological marker of GH efficacy, the waiting interval IS 4-6 weeks or LONGER!"
The real fact is that both Serums (IGF1/GH) are effected immediately after exogenous rHGH is administered although "BroScience" states otherwise (and Jim also)
Doesn't take weeks (weeks into dosing you are at a maintenance dose)
I'm not trying to match my "Data" to this study
4ius or 5iu (8 and 10 IU vials are common) easier to dose by splitting the vial
It has nothing to do with the doses used in the study
The reason for the 4(5)ius - 10day was to pull a quick IGF1 to show legitimacy of the kit being used
I then followed up with a Lab Analysis of the same kit
With this test, I'm not prescribing for (a)GHD or using the results as a biological marker to adjust dose on a patient for any HRT or Deficiency reasons
THIS IS ONLY A SIMPLE AND QUICKER WAY TO PULL AN IGF1 SERUM WHEN A GENERIC KIT IS IN QUESTION....PEROID
SIMPLY, QUICK AND WEEKS ARE NOT NEEDED
And your "test" is "bro science" and will yield artificial results and most certainly is NOT supported by the pharmacokinetics study you cited!
ProfessorX
Well-known Member
Jim Stated:
"IGF is a protein that requires TIME to manufacture and 7-10 days just isnt long enough at any GH dosage"
Pharmacokinetics and Metabolic Effects of High-Dose Growth Hormone Administration in Healthy Adult Men", Toshiaki Tanaka, et al., Endocrine Journal 1999
-To evaluate pharmacokinetics of growth hormone-
After single sc injection, IGF-I concentrations did not significantly change until 5-6 hours after the ad- ministration and increased gradually toward 24 hours
So....my blood work results are supported by this study within the topic of IGF1 elevation within hours, not weeks as you stated. It's ok to be mis-informed (wrong) sometimes Jim
I'm assuming testing (2-6 weeks as you rely on) is based on users (patients) receiving rHGH Therapy for medical issue(s) (Ex. growth hormone deficiency)
Testing using longer intervals:
anti-GH anti- bodies, tolerance or any other adverse events would be a few reasons I'm assuming
Now, my testing be "BroScience". Yea...it is.....but more "Science" than "Bro"
Like I mentioned , a simple, quicker way to test IGF1 (bioavailability) versus relying on the quick turn around time of a cheap GH Serum test (bunk - not bunk)
IGF1 levels will reach a saturation point at the dose I mentioned earlier than the 2-6 weeks that you mention
What my IGF1 levels are at 10 days will be apprx the same 2-6 weeks later
Just some "BroScience" to help with your lab analysis
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And like I've said such values are NOT reflective of steady state levels, and for you to suggest otherwise is "bro BS"
Its obvious you have no idea why pharmacokinetics studies of this nature are conducted, to prove a products bioequivalency as a requirement for governmental approval, including JAPAN
Cohorts of 5 patients are simply insufficient to be used on a therapeutic basis, but bro science says otherwise, lol
If there was a "short cut" to obtaining reliable and reproducible IGF levels, modern medicine would be using it.
But every forum has an Einstein, or in this case an anonymous "Professor", who "knows better", utterly absurd
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"Saturation point"? Once again PX do you even know what that is, bc you have yet to provide evidence for such an effect
Do you know the difference bt Cmax, Tmax and how much of an impact the dosage or frequency of administration can impact either.
Finally, did the authors of this study even remotely suggest
their data had clinical applications with respect to WHEN IGF levels should be obtained on a therapeutic basis. NOPE!
Do you know the difference bt Cmax, Tmax and how much of an impact the dosage or frequency of administration can impact either.
Finally, did the authors of this study even remotely suggest
their data had clinical applications with respect to WHEN IGF levels should be obtained on a therapeutic basis. NOPE!
ProfessorX
Well-known Member
Sweet Lawd Baby Jesus "Dr. Jim"
Why all the "Negative Nancy" knee jerk reaction
I've provided a clinical study (an old one yes) but a legit study
I've posted some blood work of mine that shows my Baseline followed by IGF1 elevation hours/days after rHGH administration (Not 2-6 weeks)
IVE SEEN NUMEROUS MEMBERS MENTION THEY WILL POST THIER IGF1 RESULTS A MONTH + AFTER THEY STARTED A CERTAIN GENERIC BRAND
SO ONCE AGAIN.....IGF1 SERUM CAN BE DONE SOONER
I ONLY MENTIONED THIS IN THE SLIGHTEST HELPFUL THOUGHT THAT OTHER MEMBERS COULD SEE IGF1 RESULTS QUICKER FOR THE "Batches" OF GENERICS YOU AND MANDS HAVE SO GRACIOUSLY POSTED FOR US TO SEE
IM ASSUMING MY SIMEC GH TEST RESULTS AND PROTEIN CHARACTERIZATION TEST RESULTS ARE NOT UP TO YOUR "STANDARDS" TO BE POSTED HERE ASWELL
What we are doing here isn't some randomized controlled double-blind clinical study Jim....we just wanna know if the Xhinese Generix are GTG
Carry On....
BroFessorX-
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I'm searching for a more recent study that suggest what you saying. I will continue to look for it. I do believe I read a study that shows IGF-1 Levels will reach a steady state quicker than most would think. Around the 2 week mark.Sweet Lawd Baby Jesus "Dr. Jim"
Why all the "Negative Nancy" knee jerk reaction
I've provided a clinical study (an old one yes) but a legit study
I've posted some blood work of mine that shows my Baseline followed by IGF1 elevation hours/days after rHGH administration (Not 2-6 weeks)
IVE SEEN NUMEROUS MEMBERS MENTION THEY WILL POST THIER IGF1 RESULTS A MONTH + AFTER THEY STARTED A CERTAIN GENERIC BRAND
SO ONCE AGAIN.....IGF1 SERUM CAN BE DONE SOONER
I ONLY MENTIONED THIS IN THE SLIGHTEST HELPFUL THOUGHT THAT OTHER MEMBERS COULD SEE IGF1 RESULTS QUICKER FOR THE "Batches" OF GENERICS YOU AND MANDS HAVE SO GRACIOUSLY POSTED FOR US TO SEE
IM ASSUMING MY SIMEC GH TEST RESULTS AND PROTEIN CHARACTERIZATION TEST RESULTS ARE NOT UP TO YOUR "STANDARDS" TO BE POSTED HERE ASWELL
What we are doing here isn't some randomized controlled double-blind clinical study Jim....we just wanna know if the Xhinese Generix are GTG
Carry On....
BroFessorX-
I could be off base a little.
mands
ProfessorX
Well-known Member
Im assuming it's dose dependent Mands.
And of course......IGF1 serums can vary person to person
Variations happen more than I thought previous
It's best to have multiple tests on multiple brands using the same protocol
Ex.
A recent case showed a member getting absolutely no elevation
If he hadn't used multiple brands including PHARMA GH...we would have though the Xhinese Generic to be Bunk
He also ramped up to 8ius for 10 days then did an IGF1 Serum
After getting extreme "sides" from this dose his IGF1 Serum was still in the normal range
We found out later it was a liver issue
So this is why the Real Lab Analysis is necessary followed by multiple IGF1s
Preeshiate the Testing...TY
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Sweet Lawd Baby Jesus "Dr. Jim"
Why all the "Negative Nancy" knee jerk reaction
I've provided a clinical study (an old one yes) but a legit study
I've posted some blood work of mine that shows my Baseline followed by IGF1 elevation hours/days after rHGH administration (Not 2-6 weeks)
IVE SEEN NUMEROUS MEMBERS MENTION THEY WILL POST THIER IGF1 RESULTS A MONTH + AFTER THEY STARTED A CERTAIN GENERIC BRAND
SO ONCE AGAIN.....IGF1 SERUM CAN BE DONE SOONER
I ONLY MENTIONED THIS IN THE SLIGHTEST HELPFUL THOUGHT THAT OTHER MEMBERS COULD SEE IGF1 RESULTS QUICKER FOR THE "Batches" OF GENERICS YOU AND MANDS HAVE SO GRACIOUSLY POSTED FOR US TO SEE
IM ASSUMING MY SIMEC GH TEST RESULTS AND PROTEIN CHARACTERIZATION TEST RESULTS ARE NOT UP TO YOUR "STANDARDS" TO BE POSTED HERE ASWELL
What we are doing here isn't some randomized controlled double-blind clinical study Jim....we just wanna know if the Xhinese Generix are GTG
Carry On....
BroFessorX-
It's not my problem you don't know how to interpret the data you cite as evidence correctly "Professor" NOT
I've provided a litany of examples that you chose to ignore but for the sake of simplicity quote any portion of this study where the authors even remotely eluded to a "saturation effect" of GH on IGF production!
The Cmax and Tmx listed in this study are the effects noted bc of the DOSE used, and have NOTHING to do with metabolic "saturation".
Cpriest88
New Member
Can we all kick in a few bucks and buy Jim some pussy? Something tells he's been deprived of it ... we all appreciate the testing effort just sucks to see him always so damn wound up.
ProfessorX
Well-known Member
I assume if the pussy was Chinese we would have to include a thorough biological study to prove the Chinese Pussy was....well.....real pussy
BroFessorx
Cpriest88
New Member
I assume if the pussy was Chinese we would have to include a thorough biological study to prove the Chinese Pussy was....well.....real pussy
BroFessorx
Just a biological study?! Too easy! You need to provide a peer reviewed meta-analysis of the methodology used by said pussy study ... otherwise get the steppin'
And I often wonder how much more effective a "community" Meso would be if everyone was as passionate!
And to that end I'll give PX credit bc at least he's willing to try, while some are just fine with a spoon in their mouths.
ProfessorX
Well-known Member
There is also:
OMNITROPE/ Genotropin Bioequivalence testing using:
Pharmacodynamics Parameters:
IGF1
IGFBP3
NEFA
This testing uses single dose administration (from what I remember) to show bioequivalence between OMNITROPE (Generic) and Genotropin (innovator)
This is done along with Lab Analysis (protein characterization included)
There is no 4-6 week time period for Serums for this type of testing
I fully understand what Jim is saying about the 4-6 week period.....but that is more along the lines of therapeutic monitoring for medical administration
Most medical studies/cases for growth hormone deficiency (GHD) require "ramping up the dose"
It's a slower process
Blood Work is monitored accordingly along with possible immune build up and tolerance
Bioequivalence/Bioavailability does not need 4-6 weeks
As for as my "BroScience Saturation theory"
My IGF1 after 10days will be in the 400s at 4-5ius (apprx)
It's will not be in the 600s+ in 4-6 weeks....it does not continue to "build up nor does it take 4-6 weeks to reach full "saturation" "peak" "full IGF1 elevation"
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muscle96ss
Subscriber
When we started doing all the serum and IGF-1 testing at PM we initially thought as Jim did; that is takes several weeks for IGF-1 to build up. However, what we found is exactly what Professor X is saying; that the IGF-1 builds up much quicker. Buck and RP did a lot of experimentation with this where they would draw IGF-1's every week for several weeks. There is a compilation of their data somewhere in the main testing thread. I will look for it and copy it over here if I find it.
