"Generic" GH ASSAYS

[Buck1973]

heres a study which I as well as others duplicated several times on IGF-1 saturation time on HGH.



Systemic IGF-1 levels

Simply stated the synthetic Growth Hormone when administered intramuscularly or subcutaneously in high enough dose results in a release profile that is not pulsatile. The release profile is an elevation and this elevation results in higher levels of systemic IGF-1 in circulation then either an intravenous administration of GH or administration of the pulsatile peptides.

While multiple daily dosings of GHRH/GHRP result in a significant rise in systemic IGF-1 (not graphed out here) they do not over time result in as substantial an elevation of circulating IGF-1 as synthetic GH administered non-intravenously.

To understand the difference in GH in plasma profile of synthetic GH administered by intravenous I provide a copy of the GH study graph identical to the clinical study graph posted above with the addition of the intravenous dosing of GH. As you can see intravenous dosing of GH results in what could be described as a pulse because GH is elevated very high and then clears quickly.

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/attachments/peptides-growth-factors/28034d1245320711-dats-cjc-1295-ghrp-6-basic-guides-139.jpg

So what does a high dose of synthetic GH administered subcutaneously or intramuscularly (but not by IV) do to systemic levels of IGF-1?

To find out we must switch to a Japanese study which undertook such study.

In Pharmacokinetics and Metabolic Effects of High-Dose Growth Hormone Administration in Healthy Adult Men, Toshiaki Tanaka, et al., Endocrine Journal 1999, 46 (4), 605-612, fifteen healthy normal Japanese adult males aged from 20 to 27 years were administered various doses of recombinant GH (Norditropin). The GH was administered in a single dose at 9:00 a.m. after overnight fasting. Blood samples were collected at 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, 12 and 24 hours after the single injection.

The doses administered were: .075iu/kg; .15iu/kg and .30iu/kg
When the average weight of each test subject is accounted for the doses administered approximated: 5iu; 10iu and 20iu

In the higher dose category the study dosed every day for a week and collected blood samples each day.

IGF-1 levels were measured and can be graphed as follows:




http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/attachments/peptides-growth-factors/28035d1245320716-dats-cjc-1295-ghrp-6-basic-guides-clipboard01.jpg


From this graph a few quick things can clearly be understood:

• IGF-1 creation is a slow ongoing process that increases every day that you administer GH until it plateaus after a week. This should tell you that there is no fear that anything will specifically interfere with GH's ability to instigate IGF-1 creation. All of the timing protocols which fear that insulin or "this and that" will interfere with IGF-1 creation are baseless and such "write-ups" that call for timing are flawed.
• It is constant GH elevations that result in ever higher levels of systemic IGF-1 creation

What none of this tells us

This does not tell us what is happening locally. By locally I mean IGF-1 that is not made in the liver and circulated systemically. Local IGFs are made in small amounts and used exclusively in the tissue of their birth.

Local IGF-1 in muscle has been demonstrated to be responsible for muscle growth and only if muscle-made IGF-1 is lacking does systemic IGF-1 play a significant (although incomplete) role.

Local IGFs in muscle are increased by growth hormone and testosterone. It is conjectured that pulsatile GH (such as IV dosing) or the use of GHRH/GHRPs results in high levels of muscle IGFs w/o creating high levels of systemic circulating IGFs.

If this proves to be true then that would be an advantage because high systemic levels of IGF-1 are positively correlated w/ cancer and mortality.

More detailed discussions about these sorts of things take place deeper in this thread.

 

[RThoads]

My eyes are burning but I finally got all caught up.
lol I bet by tomorrow when I check back there will be another 40 pages -- at least I have some new reading material to look forward to each evening good stuff here to fill my old DBT time-slot with something to learn.

 

[hunterbro]

Follow MR. B66 advice. Then ask questions. You should introduce yourself here:
New Member Introduction

Don't listen to these other dipshits. We like Newbies here at MESO as long as they aren't pushing product. MESO is here for all of us to learn, teach and explore. Have fun.

with all due respect...but maybe you should also mention that the newbies that we like aren't pushing sorces AND AREN'T ASKING for sources as this is NOT a source board. then us "dipshit" members wouldnt give him a hard time when he clogs the thread up with his lazy source talk.

 

[AlphaLife]

Private and labs 1282674 coupon code for Sept. Wait couple weeks get bloods, with igf test. Some hormone panels say igf in description.
Thanks dr Jim an mands
To bad tp got run off.

Would be nice to have a moderated thread with just reports from Jim/Mands and a separate cross-linked discussion thread ... not sure if the Meso forum platform would allow for such measures.

Also ... it was pretty awesome to see TP engaged in discussion (extremely rare moment for a guy with so much history in the Chinese GH game)... too bad he was chased off by the legion of assholes that hang around here. Some of the members appear to be working against their own interests and would rather stifle respectful discourse in favor of shit slinging and personal attacks that lead to no where. Sad.

Adult men don't get "run off" internet forums. If he's gone, it's because he doesn't want to feel the heat.

 

[fodsod]

I'm still waiting to see an IGF level 400+. Where's the labs on the guys running 5+ ius ED? I don't have a baseline and I'm too far in to stop and run one or I'd do it myself.

 

[DickySmalls]

I'm still waiting to see an IGF level 400+. Where's the labs on the guys running 5+ ius ED? I don't have a baseline and I'm too far in to stop and run one or I'd do it myself.

I did a week @ 2 IU ED, next @ 3 IU ED, next @ 4 IU ED, next @ 5 IU ED and got bloods at the end (Saturday morning). I should have the results by Friday.

 

[fodsod]

I did a week @ 2 IU ED, next @ 3 IU ED, next @ 4 IU ED, next @ 5 IU ED and got bloods at the end (Saturday morning). I should have the results by Friday.

Looking forward to seeing the results.

 

[PHL Official]

@Pharmacom Labs

Care to comment on the recent pharmatropin assay?

@Pharmacom Helper @Pharmacom Labs anything you would like to state here?

mands

i have not read all the pages , just saw my nick was quoted here.
In response i would first of all ask what Pharmatropin was that, where it was ordered and when. I dare to assume it could be ruined due to bad transport or storage conditions, since i don`t know anything about it. You can say kinda of course, next stupid excuse. It`s your right to think so. We have our HGH reports, reports of fresh HGH, which we know for sure was stored as it should be. I could upload them and try to seem being smart enough to understand them, however the fact is i am pretty stupid to be able to read and understand them. And this is not my job, we have people for this. But ok, maybe someone is able reading it...Here we are:

and same for Ansomone to compare with


All these chemical researches and examinations are as for me damn complicated,this is one of the reasons why we would like them to be carried out by certified labs with verifiable reports.
Speaking about quality testing, I added a new section into our ordering terms. Here is how it currently sounds:

SPECIAL CONDITIONS

1. Basicstero.info is direct store of Pharmacom Labs, we are Pharmacom Labs. We produce all items available in stock in our store. Therefore, we control the manufacturing process and quality of all products in our range. You get real manufacturers guarantee. Thus, items of questionable quality are a subject for free replacement. Users have right to request replacement of questionable items. If this is the case, an independent qualitative/quantitative examination of an item in question by a third-side lab is required. This is our regular solution procedure for similar cases. As a rule, we use independent GMP-certified accredited Swiss lab Simec AG (www.simec.ch). However, to absolutely exclude any tiniest possibility of our influence on the testing results, a customer is authorized to choose any certified lab on his/her choice. There are 2 compulsory conditions to keep the testing results as trustworthy as possible for both sides:

I. Only untouched/unopened items (vials/ampoules/pills) should be sent for testing. Since after an item is open its contents, purity and composition are no longer under our control we can guarantee the quality of unopened items only.

II. The lab chosen should correspond to all respective testing standards. Each test report should have an individual verifiable number, so that any person could contact the lab, provide report number and make sure that the result was not forged.

If a customer decides to take advantage of this item of the terms, he/she shall inform us about this in advance, provide order Nr., which contained the product in question and photos of it. Basicstero.info is bound by these terms to replace to the customer the item sent for testing independent on whether the final result will be positive or negative. Furthermore, if the lab report shows negative and some considerable deviations are found, Basicstero.info will completely cover all testing expenses and provide to the customer a good bonus for all inconvenience caused. However, if the report shows positive and no significant deviations are found, the customer should cover all testing expenses, but he/she still gets items sent for testing replaced.

Important: Deviations of the dosage within +/- 10% from the value manifested on the label are permissible.

Questions regarding the entire testing procedure, testing expenses, payment details and all other aspects are to be discussed and agreed individually per e-mail.

2. All claims/complains/blood works regarding Pharmatropin (Human Growth Hormone) are considered only within 1 week (7 days) upon order receipt (as per tracking number). Since Pharmatropin requires special storage conditions and should be kept refrigerated to keep its potency for a long time and we cannot check whether these conditions are observed by a customer, we may not and should not be reliable for any inefficiency or bad blood work results caused by improper storage conditions.

For the current case the second point is important. I would ask to repeat the tests and take samples from fresh HGH immediately after delivery directly from us. If required, you can do 2,3,5-10 tests. We are glad to cover any expenses in advance or later de-facto (so that purchaser stays anonymous for us). This would provide a much wider picture.
In any case, now we are backed up, we are bound by terms and conditions to for free replace bad items. But don`t think it will be easy to get a replacement of something, which is allegedly bunk only because you don`t feel it. I receive similar e-mails pretty often, here is the recent example for you:

In reply to our ask to provide a photo of the blood work we received this:

I checked order nr., we shipped 2 HGH kits in May to the USA. And what we see here? Where is date, name of the patient, signature of the doctor, finally why is this report in Italian language and from Italian lab, if all orders you placed were to the USA?
I don`t even say that 2 kits would not be enough for 2 months if taken 10 IU per day. Even with 5 IU not enough.

To sum up the whole story, we are doing our best to meet the wishes of customers. We outlined the best terms ever a real customer could only wish. The overwhelming majority of them is happy with the quality. If not, we are ready to consider each case individually. If customer comes to us with bad HGH result, it does not mean we will ignore him/her. I understand, HGH is very sensitive product. Many things can happen, it can be adversely influenced during delivery, especially on summer. We are always open to any blood work results or tests, we provide store credits to customers if they perform blood works, we are ready to cover chromotography test expenses upon individual agreement even if the test result shows everything is ok with the product. You can choose any lab, we absolutely don`t insist exclusively on Simec. But 2 main and absolutely reasonable compulsory conditions should be still always met. Once it is meet by the customer, we from our side will do everything to keep a customer as happy as possible. With most of our customers these games are not needed, but if some product is in question, we stand behind it.

 

[Eman]

2. All claims/complains/blood works regarding Pharmatropin (Human Growth Hormone) are considered only within 1 week (7 days) upon order receipt (as per tracking number). Since Pharmatropin requires special storage conditions and should be kept refrigerated to keep its potency for a long time and we cannot check whether these conditions are observed by a customer, we may not and should not be reliable for any inefficiency or bad blood work results caused by improper storage conditions

Okay, so to clarify, any problems with your GH product have to be proven with bloods within 7 days of receipt?

 

[PrideofNYC123]

Okay, so to clarify, any problems with your GH product have to be proven with bloods within 7 days of receipt?

Better get those igf tests asap!

It's all based on their incorrect assumption that gh degrades rapidly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Colt44]

WTF are you talking about? 7 days? So not even long enough to get them in for testing and not long enough to elevate IGF to a stable level? What a fucking joke. Sounds like whomever wrote these bullshit conditions needs to do some revising.

 

[Eman]

Better get those igf tests asap!

It's all based on their incorrect assumption that gh degrades rapidly.

I think I'll go ahead and buy the pharmatropin, pull bloods after a few days of use and post them up. I just want reimbursed in something other than more pharmatropin.

What a joke.

Here's the cliff note version of Frank's post: reiterate pcom's testing procedures for the umpteenth time, tell us Frank has no clue about the GH test he had done and that all GH complaints/igf tests have to be performed within one week of receipt.

 

[Colt44]

i have not read all the pages , just saw my nick was quoted here.
In response i would first of all ask what Pharmatropin was that, where it was ordered and when. I dare to assume it could be ruined due to bad transport or storage conditions, since i don`t know anything about it. You can say kinda of course, next stupid excuse. It`s your right to think so. We have our HGH reports, reports of fresh HGH, which we know for sure was stored as it should be. I could upload them and try to seem being smart enough to understand them, however the fact is i am pretty stupid to be able to read and understand them. And this is not my job, we have people for this. But ok, maybe someone is able reading it...Here we are:

and same for Ansomone to compare with


All these chemical researches and examinations are as for me damn complicated,this is one of the reasons why we would like them to be carried out by certified labs with verifiable reports.
Speaking about quality testing, I added a new section into our ordering terms. Here is how it currently sounds:

SPECIAL CONDITIONS

1. Basicstero.info is direct store of Pharmacom Labs, we are Pharmacom Labs. We produce all items available in stock in our store. Therefore, we control the manufacturing process and quality of all products in our range. You get real manufacturers guarantee. Thus, items of questionable quality are a subject for free replacement. Users have right to request replacement of questionable items. If this is the case, an independent qualitative/quantitative examination of an item in question by a third-side lab is required. This is our regular solution procedure for similar cases. As a rule, we use independent GMP-certified accredited Swiss lab Simec AG (www.simec.ch). However, to absolutely exclude any tiniest possibility of our influence on the testing results, a customer is authorized to choose any certified lab on his/her choice. There are 2 compulsory conditions to keep the testing results as trustworthy as possible for both sides:

I. Only untouched/unopened items (vials/ampoules/pills) should be sent for testing. Since after an item is open its contents, purity and composition are no longer under our control we can guarantee the quality of unopened items only.

II. The lab chosen should correspond to all respective testing standards. Each test report should have an individual verifiable number, so that any person could contact the lab, provide report number and make sure that the result was not forged.

If a customer decides to take advantage of this item of the terms, he/she shall inform us about this in advance, provide order Nr., which contained the product in question and photos of it. Basicstero.info is bound by these terms to replace to the customer the item sent for testing independent on whether the final result will be positive or negative. Furthermore, if the lab report shows negative and some considerable deviations are found, Basicstero.info will completely cover all testing expenses and provide to the customer a good bonus for all inconvenience caused. However, if the report shows positive and no significant deviations are found, the customer should cover all testing expenses, but he/she still gets items sent for testing replaced.

Important: Deviations of the dosage within +/- 10% from the value manifested on the label are permissible.

Questions regarding the entire testing procedure, testing expenses, payment details and all other aspects are to be discussed and agreed individually per e-mail.

2. All claims/complains/blood works regarding Pharmatropin (Human Growth Hormone) are considered only within 1 week (7 days) upon order receipt (as per tracking number). Since Pharmatropin requires special storage conditions and should be kept refrigerated to keep its potency for a long time and we cannot check whether these conditions are observed by a customer, we may not and should not be reliable for any inefficiency or bad blood work results caused by improper storage conditions.

For the current case the second point is important. I would ask to repeat the tests and take samples from fresh HGH immediately after delivery directly from us. If required, you can do 2,3,5-10 tests. We are glad to cover any expenses in advance or later de-facto (so that purchaser stays anonymous for us). This would provide a much wider picture.
In any case, now we are backed up, we are bound by terms and conditions to for free replace bad items. But don`t think it will be easy to get a replacement of something, which is allegedly bunk only because you don`t feel it. I receive similar e-mails pretty often, here is the recent example for you:

In reply to our ask to provide a photo of the blood work we received this:

I checked order nr., we shipped 2 HGH kits in May to the USA. And what we see here? Where is date, name of the patient, signature of the doctor, finally why is this report in Italian language and from Italian lab, if all orders you placed were to the USA?
I don`t even say that 2 kits would not be enough for 2 months if taken 10 IU per day. Even with 5 IU not enough.

To sum up the whole story, we are doing our best to meet the wishes of customers. We outlined the best terms ever a real customer could only wish. The overwhelming majority of them is happy with the quality. If not, we are ready to consider each case individually. If customer comes to us with bad HGH result, it does not mean we will ignore him/her. I understand, HGH is very sensitive product. Many things can happen, it can be adversely influenced during delivery, especially on summer. We are always open to any blood work results or tests, we provide store credits to customers if they perform blood works, we are ready to cover chromotography test expenses upon individual agreement even if the test result shows everything is ok with the product. You can choose any lab, we absolutely don`t insist exclusively on Simec. But 2 main and absolutely reasonable compulsory conditions should be still always met. Once it is meet by the customer, we from our side will do everything to keep a customer as happy as possible. With most of our customers these games are not needed, but if some product is in question, we stand behind it.

Do you ship every kit of this super duper fragile HGH in cold packs to ensure they arrive without a hint of degradation?

 

[PHL Official]

Okay, so to clarify, any problems with your GH product have to be proven with bloods within 7 days of receipt?

yes correct.

Better get those igf tests asap!

It's all based on their incorrect assumption that gh degrades rapidly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

and yes, we strongly advice to test not only HGH, but IGF also. We are ready to provide store credits equal to the amount of expenses spent.

 

[Eman]

WTF are you talking about? 7 days? So not even long enough to get them in for testing and not long enough to elevate IGF to a stable level? What a fucking joke. Sounds like whomever wrote these bullshit conditions needs to do some revising.

It's actually putting them at a disadvantage moreso than the consumer.

 

[Eman]

we strongly advice to test not only HGH, but IGF also. We are ready to provide store credits equal to the amount of expenses spent.

Lol... Wow. Good luck!

 

[Colt44]

It's actually putting them at a disadvantage moreso than the consumer.

It could go either way.

 

[ickyrica]

Day two testing begin!

 

[Colt44]

It's actually putting them at a disadvantage moreso than the consumer.

Depends on the route of testing. I'd test IGF at 3 days on 5iu for every kit! Lmao

 

[Eman]

It could go either way.

You're probably right! But IGF testing after a few days of like 2iu... Get ready for some really long posts from Frank back tracking like a mother fucker.