"Generic" GH ASSAYS

[Dr JIM]

igf and hgh are not estrified drugs and both-half relatively short half-life. they don`t need a week to accumulate.

Really stay tuned bc it seems I've heard this before, lol

 

[Dr JIM]

actually i offered possible solutions and exact way of action. I provided chromo graphs showing results of our HGH. Also I said I am open to offers.
Or couch warriors can only criticize? If someone did at least something, if we had at least 10 hgh, igf, chromo results there would be much more reasons for discussions.

Post these "chromo" graphs and tell me more about what they "showed".

Apparentlyy the problem is very few resalers understand how to interpret the analytical data they are given and just parrot what they are told by manufactures.

But I'm interested in the data you have bc I've never seen squat until today!

 

[Dr JIM]

Don't get me wrong. I like that he is here but he's giving the same ol bullshit routine. Blame the customers, storage, and transport..blah blah blah

Much like any other "salesman" I'd like to believe these guys are doing what they are paid to do
SELL A PRODUCT, and for that I don't suspect they should be criticized.

Which begs the question, what would you, me or anyone else knowingly sell a "fake or underdosed" PED for?

I suspect for most that depends upon how much money we have in our pockets.

Yet once again, I'm curious about not only what they have been told by manufacturers, but also what efforts RESALERS make to ensure the information they are given is indeed ACCURATE.

I ask bc when I look at the minimalist educational attitude of most Meso members, its no wonder sooooo many are being undersold PEDs.

Jim

 

[Dr JIM]

If we had at least 10 hgh, igf, chromo results there would be much more reasons for discussions.

Give me one reason why customers should be asked to conduct the type of analytical testing only EXPECTED of GH manufacturers, and for that reason I sure hope Pharmacon has more than "one chromo"!

And if that's YOUR standard no wonder Pharmatropin is "underdosed" based on a considerable portion of the "bloods" I've seen, and heck I'm no fan of "bloods" but that's what GH users are stuck with for all intents and purposes.

 

[Geterdun]

Minimalist educated couch warrior here who has never ordered GH from Pcom. However, I wouldn't order after reading and following this thread and admittedly not knowing anything about GH.

Not long ago I think Frank posted their workers went and shook all the GH they had to see if there was any "Gremlins" in the GH they had. @Pharmacom Labs do you know if the GH tested was from the batch that you folks went back to shake to find "Gremlins?" I think it was mentioned then, GH is pretty fragil to be shaking. Is this the "proper storage" you speak of? Should everyone who orders go shake their GH vials for proper storage?

 

[JayWaWa]

completely agree and this fine with all products. If testosterone serum is tested and blood work provided even after 1 year after purchase, this is fine. But HGH is a specific product. You may find this hard to believe but there are customers who don`t know that it should be store refrigerated. And they don`t always read instructions. Moreover, HGH is a very specific drug in its action. It does not provide you any noticeable muscle gains, it is not an excellent fat burner, its action is seen in the best way in stack with other drugs and at long cycles, after at least 3 months. So, if some newbie tell us he does not feel HGH, even if he provides a blood work after say 6 month and it is shitty, because it was stored just on a shelf all the time, what shall we do? HGH is a very specific drug. Not many order it. 98% of those who order don`t complain. So, as i said, i think the situation being discussed now is not common.

Frank,
As a customer I must ask, have you considered that for you to make these claims and say that you deliver the best quality product, perhaps you should always only ship your GH in a cool pack to ensure its integrity? To me you shipping without cool packs gives room in the mind of the customer that you could be selling a product that is inferior and using the shipping in summer as an excuse. Can you see how one might come to that conclusion?
Elsewhere here someone said to simply propose solutions and I am: always ship us GH in a cool pack to show that you value the integrity of the product sold as well as delivered and used!

 

[PrideofNYC123]

Shipping with a cool pack is a nice thought but isn't a reality for international shipping. You'd have maybe a 5% chance of making it past customs.


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[Dr JIM]

This clinically based article demonstrates some of the differences between a pharmacokinetic study and one with medicinal applications, in this case the utility of IGF as a marker of GH use by ATHLETES!

POINTS OF MERIT
- Number of study subjects = 99!

- Type of study = Prospective double blinded placebo controlled clinical trial

- Source of monetary support = cooperative funding, "in part" by the IOC

- Medication/dosage/frequency/duration = rHGH in 0.1 IU and 0.2 IU/KG/DAY for 28 DAYS

SPECIAL FEATURES
- Note an GH/IGF dose response peak was NOT reached until after 21 DAYS of therapy, and steady state plateau levels were best demonstrated somewhere between 21 and 28 days!

- Observe how doubling the GH dose from 0.1IU/KG/DAY to 0.2IU/KG/DAY, had only a minimal impact on IGF values in MEN.

- The bottom portion of "Figure 1" provides a nice summary for most BB, IMO

JIM

 

[JayWaWa]

Shipping with a cool pack is a nice thought but isn't a reality for international shipping. You'd have maybe a 5% chance of making it past customs.


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One can order US domestic through Frank FYI.

 

[PrideofNYC123]

One can order US domestic through Frank FYI.

And how does it arrive to the US? It isn't produced here.


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[JayWaWa]

And how does it arrive to the US? It isn't produced here.


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No but it is obviously stored and shipped from somewhere in the US if you order through his domestic service.
With the guarantee that they have for their products i would hope that they figured out that mass shipments of HGH from lab to warehouse should happen when its cool.
Which should preserve it from factory to domestic warehouse.
From there the product should be shipped with some type of cool pack domestically.

At $250 a kit, thats the least they can do to ensure integrity.

 

[Mr MASSE]

Some GH can stay at room temperature about a month!
Don't know how is it with pharmatropin...

 

[rpbb]

This clinically based article demonstrates some of the differences between a pharmacokinetic study and one with medicinal applications, in this case the utility of IGF as a marker of GH use by ATHLETES!

POINTS OF MERIT
- Number of study subjects = 99!

- Type of study = Prospective double blinded placebo controlled clinical trial

- Source of monetary support = cooperative funding, "in part" by the IOC

- Medication/dosage/frequency/duration = rHGH in 0.1 IU and 0.2 IU/KG/DAY for 28 DAYS

SPECIAL FEATURES
- Note an GH/IGF dose response peak was NOT reached until after 21 DAYS of therapy, and steady state plateau levels were best demonstrated somewhere between 21 and 28 days!

- Observe how doubling the GH dose from 0.1IU/KG/DAY to 0.2IU/KG/DAY, had only a minimal impact on IGF values in MEN.

- The bottom portion of "Figure 1" provides a nice summary for most BB, IMO

JIM

good stuff, surprised how high the dose was, and how high some peoples baselines were

 

[JayWaWa]

Some GH can stay at room temperature about a month!
Don't know how is it with pharmatropin...

room temp is one thing, heat of summer or shipping vessels is another

 

[Dr JIM]

Frank,
As a customer I must ask, have you considered that for you to make these claims and say that you deliver the best quality product, perhaps you should always only ship your GH in a cool pack to ensure its integrity? To me you shipping without cool packs gives room in the mind of the customer that you could be selling a product that is inferior and using the shipping in summer as an excuse. Can you see how one might come to that conclusion?
Elsewhere here someone said to simply propose solutions and I am: always ship us GH in a cool pack to show that you value the integrity of the product sold as well as delivered and used!

Ah shucks and to think the GH we receive and then ship to our lab are BOTH conducted as an OVERNIGHT delivery item! (At least that's what Ive requested, and now perhaps donors understand why)

But it this necessary, NOPE, yet the fact UGLs don't reach for such a standard provides testimony to how much credence they give to the notion "the GH you tested deteriorated during shipping". BALONEY!

The truth of the matter is, providing UGL vials are vacuum sealed (another Pharm standard) preventing an exposure to oxidants, water in particular, any loss of potency is the manufacturers responsibility.

 

[muscle96ss]

This clinically based article demonstrates some of the differences between a pharmacokinetic study and one with medicinal applications, in this case the utility of IGF as a marker of GH use by ATHLETES!

POINTS OF MERIT
- Number of study subjects = 99!

- Type of study = Prospective double blinded placebo controlled clinical trial

- Source of monetary support = cooperative funding, "in part" by the IOC

- Medication/dosage/frequency/duration = rHGH in 0.1 IU and 0.2 IU/KG/DAY for 28 DAYS

SPECIAL FEATURES
- Note an GH/IGF dose response peak was NOT reached until after 21 DAYS of therapy, and steady state plateau levels were best demonstrated somewhere between 21 and 28 days!

- Observe how doubling the GH dose from 0.1IU/KG/DAY to 0.2IU/KG/DAY, had only a minimal impact on IGF values in MEN.

- The bottom portion of "Figure 1" provides a nice summary for most BB, IMO

JIM

UM, did you even read the study? IGF-1 measurements weren't taken after baseline until 21 days later. So we have no idea how quickly IGF-1 rose or what the values were on any days in between the blood measurements.

 

[rpbb]

This clinically based article demonstrates some of the differences between a pharmacokinetic study and one with medicinal applications, in this case the utility of IGF as a marker of GH use by ATHLETES!

POINTS OF MERIT
- Number of study subjects = 99!

- Type of study = Prospective double blinded placebo controlled clinical trial

- Source of monetary support = cooperative funding, "in part" by the IOC

- Medication/dosage/frequency/duration = rHGH in 0.1 IU and 0.2 IU/KG/DAY for 28 DAYS

SPECIAL FEATURES
- Note an GH/IGF dose response peak was NOT reached until after 21 DAYS of therapy, and steady state plateau levels were best demonstrated somewhere between 21 and 28 days!

- Observe how doubling the GH dose from 0.1IU/KG/DAY to 0.2IU/KG/DAY, had only a minimal impact on IGF values in MEN.

- The bottom portion of "Figure 1" provides a nice summary for most BB, IMO

JIM

also shows how important getting baseline igf levels. there's no predicting how much it will go up numerically

 

[Dr JIM]

also shows how important getting baseline igf levels. there's no predicting how much it will go up numerically

Indeed and such is even more important when lower GH dosages are being used, bc the GH/IGF dose response relationship can become LESS predictable at lower GH dosages.

What is lower? In the neighborhood of 0.01 to 0.02 mcg/kg/day, or 1-2 IU per day for a 100KG gent. This is considered a "supplemental" GH dose for those with "adult onset" GH deficiency.

 

[PrideofNYC123]

Norditropin is 3 weeks and genotropin is 3 months at room temp I believe

Edit: Jesus, you are the king of deleting and editing posts. This was in response to Jim asking "By what or who's standard?" In reference to gh being stored at room temp.


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[Dr JIM]

Norditropin is 3 weeks and genotropin is 3 months at room temp I believe


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I dont know of ANY Pharm GH that recommends this as the current STANDARD is REFRIGERATION.

Here is one such example a Genotropin package insert. Scroll down to storage and handling "Refrigerate at 36-48 degrees F".

The point GH should be refrigerated whenever possible as anything less, MAY challenge it's potency especially if left at "room temp for as long as THREE MONTHS"!

The latter is simply not a good idea and Frank or any other UGL would have a reason to be concerned if that's what some are doing! Moreover refrigeration is even more critical once the product is reconstituted.