"Generic" GH ASSAYS

[Dr JIM]

I think talking about your testing methods will help you out, and maybe then you and @Dr JIM can have an intellectual open discussion on how both methods are and where one can develop an error, or provide insight on testing


Edit: in other words, prove he's wrong by talking about your methods and why it is you think your method is correct. We all want knowledge here anyway, so whether it works out or not, the rest of us members can have a better understanding of the testing procedures

Have you every been a teacher?

I do it every day as its a part of my occupation working with Med Students and residents, and if you don't understand the fund of knowledge differences bt those
with a formal education and many on Meso stick around and pay closer attention to those questions being asked.

They range from explain the math, techniques or involved technology or how to interpret the data. There are BOOKS on each and every one of those
topics.

Bc that's something that requires months of study for an educated fella as myself there's NO WAY it can be achieved on a forum best designed for one or two line commentaries.

Much like those who want to be spoon fed AAS info, the onus is on them to LEARN the basics of analytical lab testing first.

 

[Trapmonster]

Have you every been a teacher?

I do it every day as its a part of my occupation working with Med Students and residents, and if you don't understand the fund of knowledge differences bt those
with a formal education and many on Meso stick around and pay closer attention to those questions being asked.

They range from explain the math, techniques or involved technology or how to interpret the data. There are BOOKS on each and every one of those
topics.

Bc that's something that requires months of study for an educated fella as myself there's NO WAY it can be achieved on a forum best designed for one or two line commentaries.

Much like those who want to be spoon fed AAS info, the onus is on them to LEARN the basics of analytical lab testing first.

I was trying to point out that if both you and jano talk about the testing procedures instead of being secretive about it, then maybe one can catch an error one was doing and vice versa. Sort of how they say 2 minds are greater than 1? I'm hoping that if you can both agree to have a full on discussion on each other's testing methods, then maybe some answers can be given, or errors noted, etc.

 

[muscle96ss]

Have you every been a teacher?

I do it every day as its a part of my occupation working with Med Students and residents, and if you don't understand the fund of knowledge differences bt those
with a formal education and many on Meso stick around and pay closer attention to those questions being asked.

They range from explain the math, techniques or involved technology or how to interpret the data. There are BOOKS on each and every one of those
topics.

Bc that's something that requires months of study for an educated fella as myself there's NO WAY it can be achieved on a forum best designed for one or two line commentaries.

Much like those who want to be spoon fed AAS info, the onus is on them to LEARN the basics of analytical lab testing first.

See this is the approach that I highly disagree with and where I think Jano can play a large role. When we started the HGH testing at PM, I had no clue what any of this stuff meant. Granted I have a medical background with organic chemistry, biochemistry, etc.. in my college years. But I never payed any attention back then and have forgotten most of it anyway. Thanks to Jano's patience and pages of explanations and answering questions; I have learned a shitload. There is still much that I don't know and I can't really have a real discussion with anyone in the actual field without that being obvious. However, I know enough to understand the testing from a completely different perspective and get more meaning from the tests.

My advice to the members would be to give Jano a chance and I think you will find that he is a huge asset. Lets try to stick to the facts and not get into being personal and name calling.

And my advice to Jano would be the same; lets stick to the facts and try not to let things get under your skin. I know how passionate you are and how hard it is to have restraint in situations like this. Trust me; I have been there before. I still go off the deep end on occasion; but I do a much job of holding back.

 

[heady muscle]

You are correct, I apologise, I certainly didn't mean it as an offense to actual participants. I only used it as an reference to an age old joke.

Urban Dictionary: arguing on the internet

Well, I guess I am a little slow. It runs in the family.

 

[heady muscle]

Take this as you will. My grandmother was from Europe and she was very old school. One of her Grandmaism's was; "if you cannot laugh at yourself then you cannot laugh at others."
I think most people, especially the keyboard warriors of our age are the most thinned skinned people our race has ever seen and cannot laugh at themselves.
When I worked in the psychology field, most the people I dealt with had serious issues, but the rest were pampered lil' fucks that couldn't take a ribbing on the playground. Then they grow up and don't change. Sad. And a waste of life.

Sorry for the rant. Move on Gentlemen (and lurking ladies).

 

[Dr JIM]

[/QUOTE]
Finally, it seems like you've got a good gig going on PM and other sites, why come here and get all pissed off[/QUOTE]

I've just not had the time to repost the analytical data from the last GH thread MANDS and I started many months ago but it's important others on Meso and elsewhere KNOW what forms of data are needed.

They provide ancillary info which enables an onlooker to validate those "results" before him. The latter in Janos case being a solitary HPLC!

 

[Dr JIM]

It seems telling NO ONE from PM has said; Oh Jim we want to learn to and if revealing the data you speak of enables our understanding, yet may diminish Janos single assay credibility, so be it bc your right; it is ALL ABOUT THE DATA, and the TRUTH it's capable of revealing!

 

[Buck1973]

It seems telling NO ONE from PM has said; Oh Jim we want to learn to and if revealing the data you speak of enables our understanding, yet may diminish Janos single assay credibility, so be it bc your right; it is ALL ABOUT THE DATA, and the TRUTH it's capable of revealing!

I'll Take that my Friend. Not sure about the us vs them mentality but if I am labeled a PM guy I have no issue wearing that label. My concerns are the basics Probably identical to all the members anywhere that are HGH users. also keep in mind as such the lab or process may not b aval. to the masses. due to legality or costs so alternates or options may be the only other avenue. So far results seem to resemble each others. if it continues that way would that give credibility to the different types of testin and the tester himself?
So Yes Sir Mr. Jim, I will only speak for myself I am here for the long haul, Facts, truths, and results to see how this will pan out not only to see who's HGH is good or bad but bigger to see another form of testin and how it differs and compares.
Thanks for bringing this to the Public.

Peace

 

[Dr JIM]

!) So please don't post things that are 100% factually incorrect!!!

1) I'll Take that my Friend. Not sure about the us vs them mentality but if I am labeled a PM guy I have no issue wearing that label. My concerns are the basics Probably identical to all the members anywhere that are HGH users. also keep in mind as such the lab or process may not b aval. to the masses. due to legality or costs so alternates or options may be the only other avenue. So far results seem to resemble each others. if it continues that way would that give credibility to the different types of testin and the tester himself?
So Yes Sir Mr. Jim, I will only speak for myself I am here for the long haul, Facts, truths, and results to see how this will pan out not only to see who's HGH is good or bad but bigger to see another form of testin and how it differs and compares.
Thanks for bringing this to the Public.

Peace

1) I'm still awaiting your response. WHAT PORTIONS of my preceding post was "ONE HUNDRED PERCENT factually incorrect"?

An intellectual exchange of ideas, must be based on evidence bc in it's absence what we often end up with is a bunch of BULLSHIT, and that's factually correct.

So if your'e willing to be Jano's prodigy and levy accusations of contradictions, partial truths, my way, or suggest I'm deliberately citing misleading information that is "factually incorrect" as a means to some ill defined ends, support such accusations with more than endless drivel!

If the latter is just something you can't do ADIOS, BUCKO!

 

[rpbb]

See this is the approach that I highly disagree with and where I think Jano can play a large role. When we started the HGH testing at PM, I had no clue what any of this stuff meant. Granted I have a medical background with organic chemistry, biochemistry, etc.. in my college years. But I never payed any attention back then and have forgotten most of it anyway. Thanks to Jano's patience and pages of explanations and answering questions; I have learned a shitload. There is still much that I don't know and I can't really have a real discussion with anyone in the actual field without that being obvious. However, I know enough to understand the testing from a completely different perspective and get more meaning from the tests.

My advice to the members would be to give Jano a chance and I think you will find that he is a huge asset. Lets try to stick to the facts and not get into being personal and name calling.

And my advice to Jano would be the same; lets stick to the facts and try not to let things get under your skin. I know how passionate you are and how hard it is to have restraint in situations like this. Trust me; I have been there before. I still go off the deep end on occasion; but I do a much job of holding back.

Jano can play a roll if he sticks to the science. When he starts with the commentary about retards and liars, he loses the argument. Basically, all he's saying is his hplc test is the only way, and everyone who thinks different is a jerk. Sounds like he needs to grow up

 

[Buck1973]

1) I'm still awaiting your response. WHAT PORTIONS of my preceding post was "ONE HUNDRED PERCENT factually incorrect"?

An intellectual exchange of ideas, must be based on evidence bc in it's absence what we often end up with is a bunch of BULLSHIT, and that's factually correct.

So if your'e willing to be Jano's prodigy and levy accusations of contradictions, partial truths, my way, or suggest I'm deliberately citing misleading information that is "factually incorrect" as a means to some ill defined ends, support such accusations with more than endless drivel!

If the latter is just something you can't do ADIOS, BUCKO!

Yes Sir,
As I stated in that post it was copied and pasted from Mr. M96SS post as I know you have him block. it was not done to inflame or agitate it was done to inform and correct. right a wrong of misinformation and what took place at PM as far as the testing and the procedure.
Before ya make a Judgement or opinion on if there was flaws in the testin done by the PM Members all we ask is that you know the facts.
Not sure why that is even relevant here, but if we set the testing standard and there is a need to up the bar I am sure that will b supported. as our goals and similarity's are more than our differences.
If there is anyway I can assist in that feel free.
I am in agreement with this statement and all should b held to this;
An intellectual exchange of ideas, must be based on evidence bc in it's absence what we often end up with is a bunch of BULLSHIT, and that's factually correct.

Peace

Mr. Muscle96ss is the person that dealt with SIMEC directly ( actually both Labs)and the only one who has had direct conversations with Simec regarding the testing they performed for us. In fact he is currently still working with one of the owners(Dr. A) to figure out where things went wrong(although very slowly). So please don't post things that are 100% factually incorrect!!!
Also Mr. Jano's Results I would not say minic Simecs, But I suppose that is a opinion....


This was copied from Mr. M96ss post as I thought it of importance for Mr. Jim to view..

You have no clue!! I am the person that dealt with SIMEC directly and the only one who has had direct conversations with Simec regarding the testing they performed for us. In fact I am currently still working with one of the owners(Dr. A) to figure out where things went wrong(although very slowly). So please don't post things that I know are 100% factually incorrect!!!

 

[heady muscle]

It seems telling NO ONE from PM has said; Oh Jim we want to learn to and if revealing the data you speak of enables our understanding, yet may diminish Janos single assay credibility, so be it bc your right; it is ALL ABOUT THE DATA, and the TRUTH it's capable of revealing!

I agree Jim. I think the approach from both sides has been a shit show. I don't understand the pissing matches between forums anyway. We are all after the same thing (except for the scammers), safe, effective drugs. This community of AAS users is too small for any shit show contamination. If people can put their egos aside and put their heads together, maybe we can really see the truths. And we would all gain from this.

 

[mands]

To answer that, of the 11 that were tested @ PM and the 10 here, there are only a few that are duplicates.
1) The Greys is were i see the most difference.. PM results were as advertised. Here .25 P/V
2) Nothing to compare to
3) Nothing to compare to
13) Tp Blacks here they are tested 13.7 Iu's p/v as we know these change with every batch PM Had them @ Plus or minus a point on one 1 sample and < a half point on the other
14) Nothing to compare to
15) Kalatu's Blk Top here 10.6 PM had them @ Less than 1/2 a point difference
16) Nothing to compare to
17) NTCT
18) NTCT
19) NTCT
Thats what i see so far.
The greys were nite and day by comparison as I see it...

I see that @muscle96ss pointed out about the first grey tested and you acknolwedged. No need to comment further on this one for me. Glad it was pointed out.

1) I'm still awaiting your response. WHAT PORTIONS of my preceding post was "ONE HUNDRED PERCENT factually incorrect"?

An intellectual exchange of ideas, must be based on evidence bc in it's absence what we often end up with is a bunch of BULLSHIT, and that's factually correct.

So if your'e willing to be Jano's prodigy and levy accusations of contradictions, partial truths, my way, or suggest I'm deliberately citing misleading information that is "factually incorrect" as a means to some ill defined ends, support such accusations with more than endless drivel!

If the latter is just something you can't do ADIOS, BUCKO!

@Buck1973 was just posting what @muscle96ss had posted... I wasn't buck who wrote that.

mands

 

[muscle96ss]

I agree Jim. I think the approach from both sides has been a shit show. I don't understand the pissing matches between forums anyway. We are all after the same thing (except for the scammers), safe, effective drugs. This community of AAS users is too small for any shit show contamination. If people can put their egos aside and put their heads together, maybe we can really see the truths. And we would all gain from this.

From both sides? RP, Buck, and I are the ones that were in charge of the PM testing. RP is not over here, but Buck and I have both stated that we support the testing over here and our willingness to work with Jim to make this a learning experience and more beneficial to all.

My only issue has been Jim's continual erroneous comments about the procedures of what we did over at PM. I have no problem with an honest critique, but Jim has no knowledge of what we did in order to make an accurate critique, as well as he has no interest in having a meaningful conversation with me to gain that knowledge. So its hard for me to sit back and watch outright lies being posted by Jim and not take offense to it. Its just plain ignorance on his part.

 

[rpbb]

From both sides? RP, Buck, and I are the ones that were in charge of the PM testing. RP is not over here, but Buck and I have both stated that we support the testing over here and our willingness to work with Jim to make this a learning experience and more beneficial to all.

My only issue has been Jim's continual erroneous comments about the procedures of what we did over at PM. I have no problem with an honest critique, but Jim has no knowledge of what we did in order to make an accurate critique, as well as he has no interest in having a meaningful conversation with me to gain that knowledge. So its hard for me to sit back and watch outright lies being posted by Jim and not take offense to it. Its just plain ignorance on his part.

i think you can have explained your point with leaving the ignorance comment out of it, you can make your point just as well just by explaining the situation. Going forward, how about everyone just talks about data and testing methodologies. It's really the only thing that helps anyone

 

[janoshik]

Jano can play a roll if he sticks to the science. When he starts with the commentary about retards and liars, he loses the argument. Basically, all he's saying is his hplc test is the only way, and everyone who thinks different is a jerk. Sounds like he needs to grow up

But I am sticking to science. It's you who has nothing to provide in that regard and all you have a personal attacks. And JIM cannot disprove a single thing regarding science I have posted so he ignores it totally.

Or am I supposed to link you a study as an answer to your stupidities and personal attacks?

Also Mr. Rpbb, it still seems to me that you have kinda missed my post over here: #1442



But it would be extremely rude of me to call you a liar for that, am I correct, because that is not a lie at all?

Just like these over here? #1161

Please, tell me how I have lost the argument when nor you, nor JIM had any balls to reply to those despite me calling it out how many times now?



Also, please point out to me, where I have said that HPLC test is the only way and everyone who thinks different is a jerk. Please, point it out to me, otherwise I'll call you a liar again and a retard as well. Because one lying all over and putting words into my mouth is just that.

Try that grow-up, 30 year engineer talk etc with your son, not me Sir, okay? Maybe then you can use the position of adult figure. But not in an anonymous discussion where all you have are arguments, which you severely lack.

 

[janoshik]

It seems telling NO ONE from PM has said; Oh Jim we want to learn to and if revealing the data you speak of enables our understanding, yet may diminish Janos single assay credibility, so be it bc your right; it is ALL ABOUT THE DATA, and the TRUTH it's capable of revealing!

I feel that both Mr. M96ss and Mr. Buck had been proposing just that.

I wasn't, as I don't see a way to learn from a person who shows the lack of basic knowledge in the field, frequently contradicts himself in FACTUAL matters and is lying constantly.

#1161 (And many other pieces of JIMs 'knowledge', I just compiled a few in that post)

1) I'm still awaiting your response. WHAT PORTIONS of my preceding post was "ONE HUNDRED PERCENT factually incorrect"?

An intellectual exchange of ideas, must be based on evidence bc in it's absence what we often end up with is a bunch of BULLSHIT, and that's factually correct.

So if your'e willing to be Jano's prodigy and levy accusations of contradictions, partial truths, my way, or suggest I'm deliberately citing misleading information that is "factually incorrect" as a means to some ill defined ends, support such accusations with more than endless drivel!

If the latter is just something you can't do ADIOS, BUCKO!

Your reading comprehension is still at its best, even Mr. Mands pointed that out now.

Also, being rude to Mr. Buck is a whole new level and I find you even more disgusting than before.

 

[rpbb]

But I am sticking to science. It's you who has nothing to provide in that regard and all you have a personal attacks. And JIM cannot disprove a single thing regarding science I have posted so he ignores it totally.

Or am I supposed to link you a study as an answer to your stupidities and personal attacks?

Also Mr. Rpbb, it still seems to me that you have kinda missed my post over here: #1442



But it would be extremely rude of me to call you a liar for that, am I correct, because that is not a lie at all?

Just like these over here? #1161

Please, tell me how I have lost the argument when nor you, nor JIM had any balls to reply to those despite me calling it out how many times now?



Also, please point out to me, where I have said that HPLC test is the only way and everyone who thinks different is a jerk. Please, point it out to me, otherwise I'll call you a liar again and a retard as well. Because one lying all over and putting words into my mouth is just that.

Try that grow-up, 30 year engineer talk etc with your son, not me Sir, okay? Maybe then you can use the position of adult figure. But not in an anonymous discussion where all you have are arguments, which you severely lack.

But I am sticking to science. It's you who has nothing to provide in that regard and all you have a personal attacks. And JIM cannot disprove a single thing regarding science I have posted so he ignores it totally.

Or am I supposed to link you a study as an answer to your stupidities and personal attacks?

Also Mr. Rpbb, it still seems to me that you have kinda missed my post over here: #1442



But it would be extremely rude of me to call you a liar for that, am I correct, because that is not a lie at all?

Just like these over here? #1161

Please, tell me how I have lost the argument when nor you, nor JIM had any balls to reply to those despite me calling it out how many times now?



Also, please point out to me, where I have said that HPLC test is the only way and everyone who thinks different is a jerk. Please, point it out to me, otherwise I'll call you a liar again and a retard as well. Because one lying all over and putting words into my mouth is just that.

Try that grow-up, 30 year engineer talk etc with your son, not me Sir, okay? Maybe then you can use the position of adult figure. But not in an anonymous discussion where all you have are arguments, which you severely lack.

Janos, I've actually been trying to help you. I give up. You're right about everything, and and everyone here is stupid

 

[janoshik]

Sir, you have been putting words into my mouth, I don't see that as much of an help, but rather as something extremely rude.

Just as accusing me of things I have not commited (and you did) is. (#1442)

I am not saying I am right about everything and that everybody here is stupid, but I have yet to find anybody here able to disprove me poiting out JIM is wrong with real arguments... or to actually acknowledge somebody JIM contradicting himself.

All I get are ad hominems and derailing the conversation to the testing on PM or pretty much anything else.

 

[janoshik]

Your most favourite argument is that 'JIM is here a long time and you are not' which is not an argument at all.

Or 'Jano should be most polite when presenting his arguments otherwise they are not valid' ... It only makes me wonder why haven't you, through all the thread asked a similar thing from JIM?

Could it be that you might be a teeny tiny bit biased?

Not going to mention the straight out lies, accusations without a basis and general rudeness. I got fed up with that. And I can quote you on all that. Can you quote me on one lie or accusation without a basis? I'd be very happy if you could and I'm sure JIM would buy you some champagne for that.

You are not trying to help me at all Sir, that is just another lie coming from your way.

I certainly don't believe that I know everything and I am rather happy when I can learn something new. Even if it means me admitting mistake in the public.

And I certainly don't believe that everybody here is stupid, but I sure can point a finger your way saying that you are.

(Or is it rude not calling you smart for accusing me of something that is not true and you yourself have done that instead? #1442 )