Getting on my first anabolic- any tips?

[Jin23]

I just don't believe in CICO

Then you don't believe in the laws of thermodynamics. You should go and teach at Harward, maybe you're on to something ...

 

[deadlypotato]

Then you don't believe in the laws of thermodynamics. You should go and teach at Harward, maybe you're on to something ...

I do believe in CICO from the physics perspective, but I don't believe that it is right to apply the theory of calories in calories out which is usually only used in theory, while examining machinery keeping all other variables constant, onto our bodies while considering food we eat as calories in and the energy our body uses at rest (BMR) and energy our body uses for physical activity as calories out and believe that the equation calories intake as food-BMR-Calories expended due to physical activity = net weight gain or loss and here is why...

1) Nobody absorbs every calorie they eat, the amount of calories you absorb from food Is different than everybody else and you literally just shit some calories out. When you use the fundamental laws of thermodynamics in theory, the calories out from shitting would be calculated as calories out but I don't believe anyone here takes there shit and examines how much calories it has. The amount of calories you absorb depends on 1) your bowel transit time, which is genetic and 2)what nutrients your genes have affinity for, which again is also genetic, 3)Your microbiome, which is also entirely random.

2) Everyone has different bodyfat percentage which means even at the same weight a person can have more BMR than other person with the same weight as him.

3)If we restrict calorie intake our body own its own decreases calories expenditure by reducing your body temperature, your bowel transit time and probably has a million other mechanisms to preserve energy which we don't know of.

It is well known among most medical professionals that it is very difficult to achieve sustained weight loss which why such an invasive surgery, called the bariatric surgery was designed for obese people.

 

[Nidus]

I only see excuses and 1500kcal is nothing, no wonder your metabolism is not working properly, should increase daily activity and aim for 2,3k-2,5k cals as maintenance

So instead of going for a stupid anavar only cycle and potentially shutting down your testies which then cause you more issues after the cycle is done, go without any PEDs

If you really need it, go with a proper TRT and introduce proper meals + activity (daily steps, cardio, strength training)

You make it sound like rocket science while trying to find excuses, time to face reality and put in the work

 

[deadlypotato]

I only see excuses and 1500kcal is nothing, no wonder your metabolism is not working properly, should increase daily activity and aim for 2,3k-2,5k cals as maintenance

So instead of going for a stupid anavar only cycle and potentially shutting down your testies which then cause you more issues after the cycle is done, go without any PEDs

If you really need it, go with a proper TRT and introduce proper meals + activity (daily steps, cardio, strength training)

You make it sound like rocket science while trying to find excuses, time to face reality and put in the work

I haven't made a single excuse brother. I am just trying to find an easy way out for what I desire instead of putting my body through intense stress of starvation and increasing energy expenditure while starving which most people seem to recommend. Probably while they have never done it themselves before (naturally), because if they did, they would know it's not sustainable.

Metformin seems to take care of most of the inflammation caused by anavar which I believe would not result in reduction of testosterone, but I will get my blood tested. I am naturally like 800 ng/dl while being high bf%, with little to no excercise, so reduction in testosterone isn't something I worry of a lot.

Anavar has much less sides than TRT.

 

[UncleBuns]

I

I was exaggerating when I said fatass, to be precise I weigh 80 kg and want to be 10-12% body fat

Do resistance training, increase cardio, eat 1 G of high quality protein per pound of body weight, track your calories, eat at 300 to 500 calories below what you burn each day. That's it. 10mg anavar a day is stupid. You don't need drugs. You need discipline.

 

[deadlypotato]

Do resistance training, increase cardio, eat 1 G of high quality protein per pound of body weight, track your calories, eat at 300 to 500 calories below what you burn each day. That's it. 10mg anavar a day is stupid. You don't need drugs. You need discipline.

Can you tell me why 10 mg anavar is stupid?

 

[UncleBuns]

Can you tell me why 10 mg anavar is stupid?

BECAUSE ANAVAR IS NOT GOOD FOR BURNING FAT. I already typed that in a previous response. Yes, there is some study that it helped with abdominal fat, but it is pretty minimal. And if you're not burning more calories than you're eating, it's not going to do a goddamn thing. 10 mg is a very low dose so any effect would be hardly noticeable and it will suppress your natural testosterone. It's a absolutely stupid idea.

Like everyone else is telling you, your plan is incredibly stupid. Hit the search bar and go find the threads where this is all very well covered or don't and do whatever you want. I don't care.

I'm done here

 

[deadlypotato]

BECAUSE ANAVAR IS NOT GOOD FOR BURNING FAT. I already typed that in a previous response. Yes, there is some study that it helped with abdominal fat, but it is pretty minimal. And if you're not burning more calories than you're eating, it's not going to do a goddamn thing. 10 mg is a very low dose so any effect would be hardly noticeable and it will suppress your natural testosterone. It's a absolutely stupid idea.

Like everyone else is telling you, your plan is incredibly stupid. Hit the search bar and go find the threads where this is all very well covered or don't and do whatever you want. I don't care.

I'm done here

Let's just assume CICO is true, wouldn't the muscle gain from anavar itself burn more calories, thereby reducing my bodyfat%?

When oxandrolone was medically prescribed, starting dosage was 2.5 mg. It has noticeable effects at 2.5mg.

From what I have read, combining metformin with oxandrolone significantly reduces reduction in testosterone, also rids of depression and anhedonia caused due to oxandrolone.

 

[Alexthemutant]

10mg cycle lol.you will never see any gains in 100 years with that.my thought is 500mg test.oral only cycle why? Scared of inje? If your not willing do inje dont start at all .screw your natural production for 10mg of anavar simple dont worth it

 

[UncleBuns]

Let's just assume CICO is true, wouldn't the muscle gain from anavar itself burn more calories, thereby reducing my bodyfat%?

When oxandrolone was medically prescribed, starting dosage was 2.5 mg. It has noticeable effects at 2.5mg.

From what I have read, combining metformin with oxandrolone significantly reduces reduction in testosterone, also rids of depression and anhedonia caused due to oxandrolone.

Listen dude, I don't know where you're getting this stupid information. Are you mis reading random studies to figure out these ridiculous combinations? What you're suggesting is absurd, it will not work, and I have no idea where you're getting this BS. If you're getting most of your information from Reddit, then it all makes sense that your mind is full of nonsense.

Go ahead. Take your 10 mg of var and metformin and see what happens. There's no way that the guys on here with DECADES of information both from studies and from real life application would know better than you. You're obviously way more intelligent than everyone here and you, the greatest anabolic guru we've all been waiting for, figured out the magic recipe no one else could ever find.

You're delusional. Hope you at least have fun because your results are going to be shit.

I know I said I'm out last time. This time I am for sure.

 

[deadlypotato]

Listen dude, I don't know where you're getting this stupid information. Are you mis reading random studies to figure out these ridiculous combinations? What you're suggesting is absurd, it will not work, and I have no idea where you're getting this BS. If you're getting most of your information from Reddit, then it all makes sense that your mind is full of nonsense.

Go ahead. Take your 10 mg of var and metformin and see what happens. There's no way that the guys on here with DECADES of information both from studies and from real life application would know better than you. You're obviously way more intelligent than everyone here and you, the greatest anabolic guru we've all been waiting for, figured out the magic recipe no one else could ever find.

You're delusional. Hope you at least have fun because your results are going to be shit.

I know I said I'm out last time. This time I am for sure.

The Protective Effect of Metformin against Oxandrolone-Induced Infertility in Male Rats - PubMed

Metformin administration provided protection against oxandrolone-induced infertility in male rats. Further clinical studies are needed to confirm the protective effect of metformin against oxandrolone-induced infertility among athletes.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Metformin reduces oxandrolone- induced depression-like behavior in rats via modulating the expression of IL-1β, IL-6, IL-10 and TNF-α - PubMed

Oxandrolone (OXA) is an androgen and anabolic steroid (AAS) that is used to reverse weight loss associated with some medical conditions. One of the side effects of OXA is its potential to induce depressive symptoms. Growing evidence suggested that neuroinflammation and cytokines play crucial...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I study pharmacology

 

[deadlypotato]

10mg cycle lol.you will never see any gains in 100 years with that.my thought is 500mg test.oral only cycle why? Scared of inje? If your not willing do inje dont start at all .screw your natural production for 10mg of anavar simple dont worth it

10mg cycle lol.you will never see any gains in 100 years with that.my thought is 500mg test.oral only cycle why? Scared of inje? If your not willing do inje dont start at all .screw your natural production for 10mg of anavar simple dont worth it

Not scared of injection no, scared of injecting ug compounds into my blood stream directly, maybe I'll get over the fear as time progresses. Let's say if some one was to do an anavar only cycle, what dosage would u suggest?

 

[phenominal34]

Not scared of injection no, scared of injecting ug compounds into my blood stream directly, maybe I'll get over the fear as time progresses. Let's say if some one was to do an anavar only cycle, what dosage would u suggest?

Nobody here is STUPID enough to do one.

You stated in one of your know it all posts your not gonna work hard or out in the effort that counts with diet. You’re lazy and that’s why you look the way you do.

Fattyone, gave you great advice but then made the correct call - be done with you.

 

[deadlypotato]

Nobody here is STUPID enough to do one.

You stated in one of your know it all posts your not gonna work hard or out in the effort that counts with diet. You’re lazy and that’s why you look the way you do.

Fattyone, gave you great advice but then made the correct call - be done with you.

I know people who are as lazy as me and still look the way I want to.

Is it so wrong to be lazy?

From a normal person perspective i am not even that lazy but compared to you guys who spend like and hour or two in gym everyday, sure I am lazy. But it doesn't change the fact that some people who are as lazy as me or more, have better body composition than me. I want to be like them, what is so wrong about having a desire of that kind? Why do u want me to work my ass of to achieve something i desire to only lose it in end as it is not sustainable?


Fattyones advice although was nice it didn't help me at all as he encouraged me to pursue my goals naturally, which I don't want to do. No hate to him, but I wanted advice in regards to anavar and how can I mitigate it's side effects or if there's any other compound I can replace it with and so on.

 

[RekTest]

Can you tell me why 10 mg anavar is stupid?

So dumb it was painful to read this thread…

You take Anavar, your natural production is going to shut down.. anavar isnt test, so your gonna drop to 0 testosterone levels and feel like shit.. you aint losing jack shit on 0 test levels.


Lets not even get into 10mg anavar for a man….



God I wish you run it and I can see the thread of you running back here crying

 

[deadlypotato]

Nobody here is STUPID enough to do one.

You stated in one of your know it all posts your not gonna work hard or out in the effort that counts with diet. You’re lazy and that’s why you look the way you do.

Fattyone, gave you great advice but then made the correct call - be done with you.

Also my intent here was not to project myself as a know it all, I apologise if i came across that way but I also believe that most of you guys apply a very reductionist approach to things, such as CICO, and fail to see the scientific drawbacks of the same due to survivorship bias.

CICO is not only not productive, it is counter productive in case of naturals who aren't taking anabolics, or more precisely anti-catabolics.

 

[deadlypotato]

So dumb it was painful to read this thread…

You take Anavar, your natural production is going to shut down.. anavar isnt test, so your gonna drop to 0 testosterone levels and feel like shit.. you aint losing jack shit on 0 test levels.


Lets not even get into 10mg anavar for a man….



God I wish you run it and I can see the thread of you running back here crying

That is not a huge issue, if my natural production reduces, I can just get on TRT in the future if I feel the reduction is significant. I am just testing the waters with anavar. And honestly I don't even think the production would "shut down".

It won’t. Doctors run anavar alone for weeks and there has been plenty of clinical trials.

Even nowadays they run trials (ClinicalTrials.gov) using anavar alone for 12 weeks without a test base. The idea that you can’t never run anavar alone because you will get suppressed goes against all the medical literature and is also against how real doctors use this steroid.

For instance, check this study (Oxandrolone in the Treatment of HIV-Associated Weight Loss... : JAIDS Journal of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndromes)

In the above-cited study on HIV+ males, twelve weeks of 20 mg or 40 mg per day caused an approximate 45% reduction in serum testosterone levels.The group taking 80 mg noticed a 66% decrease in testosterone. Similar trends of decrease were noticed in LH production, with the 20 mg and 40 mg doses causing a 25-30% reduction, and the 80 mg group noticing a decline of more than 50%.

As you can see, 12 weeks of anavar at 40mg causes 45% supression. If you run it for 4-8 weeks, supression is lower. Thats why guys like Mike Israetel (
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qyJd-Zc7Kw
) or Chavez (
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ffuu42nfak
) recommend anavar only cycles for a few weeks.

Also, after stopping anavar there is also a rebound in your testosterone levels. And using metformin alongside would further reduce the intensity of hypogonadism.

I find it funny that I am the one who is being laughed at and called dumb when I am the only one who is providing reasons for my arguments and sources for my claims.

 

[DECLAN]

No I am not a woman, My goals are similar to that of most women, that is don't wanna get huge but just wanna lose bodyfat, ideally without caring about it much.

1)I know everyone will criticise me for this, but I don't entirely believe in CICO.

2)That is nice and I am happy for you. In my case,I don't want to dedicate a significant portion of my focus to this and I wanna have it happen automatically. I know you must recognise that there are some people around you that just naturally stay very lean, without caring about it. Now, most people on this forum would just assume it is probably because they eat less, but I figure there are some people who could eat a lot and still won't get fat. I am not the pioneer in discovering that, I am pretty sure everyone knows a guy/girl who does that. But they just assume it probably because over a stretched period of time they must get in a deficit, which I refuse to assume.

3)No dude, there are some drugs that can change your composition without you changing anything with regards to your excercise routine/TDEE/TDCI.

4) Not a chick, also I am not even that fat, I am just 80kgs lol, when I say I don't wanna be a fatass I mean I want to be low body fat percentage, like 10-12%. Also yes I know the sides, and almost every other compound I listed in the original post is to mitigate, to a certain degree, the sides of var.

5)The same can be said about exercising or meddling with TDEE/TDIC, you will only stay your desired body, assuming that your natural body isn't what you desire, If you dedicate a certain degree of effort to exercising, if you stop, your body will revert back to its natural state. And no I don't believe that my body will stay in the shape I make it go to with a 6 week drug routine forever. I plan cycle on an off with different compounds throughout life, which I find ideal for me.Maybe even take something forever, And also I have never been able to lean out, not because I tried everything and couldn't, I never really dedicated myself like you had, because I personally believe the long term consequences of exposing your body such stress will actually be even worse than the sides of some synthetics.

Good to hear your wife is doing good I hope she continues.

Well, it seems like you know what you’re talking about, you don’t need the advice of people who are in shape here.

Keep doing what you’re doing it’s obviously the right path for you.

I still don’t understand why people make threads like this, it’s mind boggling to ask then push back when they offer free advice. You know some of these guys compete and coach in real life right?

Anyway, you don’t anyone’s confirmation if you have your mind set on doing a cycle already, just be safe and pray you don’t develop health problems. Good luck.

 

[DECLAN]

Then you don't believe in the laws of thermodynamics. You should go and teach at Harward, maybe you're on to something ...

What did Justin Harris, a well known coach who has a degree in physics, “if you can circumvent the first law of thermodynamics; you will solve the energy crisis, get a noble prize and be a trillionaire” lol.

 

[deadlypotato]

Well, it seems like you know what you’re talking about, you don’t need the advice of people who are in shape here.

Keep doing what you’re doing it’s obviously the right path for you.

I still don’t understand why people make threads like this, it’s mind boggling to ask then push back when they offer free advice. You know some of these guys compete and coach in real life right?

Anyway, you don’t anyone’s confirmation if you have your mind set on doing a cycle already, just be safe and pray you don’t develop health problems. Good luck.

I asked for advice in regards to my first anabolic i.e anavar as it is my first time. If there are things I can do to minimise its side effects, or if there's a better compund for me all together, and to discuss that I didn't ask people to advise me in regards to my diet or exercise habits.

Just because you're in shape doesn't mean you understand everything. Madison beer is in good shape but she probably knows nothing about all this shit.