Giant Semaglutide Thread (and other GLP-1 / GIP agonists)

[Doodle]

Wanted to create a thread where everyone can post their experiences with different sourced Semaglutide.

Who are you using?
Pharma vs non?
Dosage?
How long have you been taking it?
What are your thoughts?
Have you lost weight?
Side effects?
Oral vs injection?
Tests?

 

[DanishPanther]

This paper suggests reta has a glucagon agonist, not antagonist.

But I agree especially with that last part:



There is a lot we don't know about these drugs. I remember an argument about early GIP agonists work by GIP agonism in general, or one day of agonism followed by 6 days of downregulation (once weekly injection)

Well as I said Triz is mostly a GLP-1 agonist, and directly a GIP agonist!
Activating GIP both stimulate more insulin and glucagon at the same time.
The first is a good thing, but glucagon is a bad thing for fatloss and diabetes.

Now as I just said reta also does what Triz does, it also activates GIP / is a GIP agonist, so it also have a component thwt increases glucagon, sure.

But that’s why they in the peptide have combined a direct glucagon antagonist.

 

[DanishPanther]

wonder if pissing out extra glucagon is good for kidneys? lol

while this RETA thing sounds cool as does MORE (even though as you say folks note less weight loss from my understanding, which perhaps makes it less side effect prone), that being said hitting MORE receptors means more potential side effects... perhaps tirz just got lucky as slightly less effects on GI tract.. but there is other shit at play, I won't pretend to know or theorize but there are some serious side effects with sema be it kidney failure or thyroid cancer.... these cancers may not show up for another 5-10 years.. perhaps will overwork your pancreas esp in those prone to this and actually end up giving your diabetes. I don't know, and while def science on them, as Alex says science changes as we learn more. heck they are JUST starting to figure out why some antidepressants work even when it was never a "lack" of serotonin like they once thought.

I know I have said this before, esp in regards to untested drugs, but even tested ones it usually happens(serious side effects observed) after patent runs out and studies can be done easier and of course few years for studies to actually come out to figure out issues. If a diabetic gets retinopathy or kidney failure no one would be surprised so takes awhile for a signal to emerge esp when already known side effects of such drugs, PLUS untangle how much a factor Covid was for example re kidney function.
good thing about Internet is at least the healthy folks who are taking it for weightless we would prob start to here stories.

I have always hated this idea amoung bodybuildere that more is better.

All more of the drug does it saturate the receptors more and make you dependent of more to have the same effect.

But no that does not go for effecting MORE receptors, that just balance the drug out more.

In fact so it is with steroids as well, splitting the effect out over more mechanisms gives less (not more) side effects,

But in this case an extra receptor is blocked to be more efficient and it leads to less side effects,

The mentioned cancer side effects are nonsens, its media spin.
There is not a single study showing such a thing as cancer,
And there is no logical case why it would be so.

Canada was concerned that we only have studies running since 2014, as their Health autoritiee Said, what if it leads to cancer in 40 years.

This is an economical argument, because this drug is expensive for countries to buy to their citizens and thats what wellphare systems like Canadas and Denmarks are obligated to. In Denmark they have simply refused, if people wants to get on the med there is no insurance coverrage.

Nova Nordic have responded by calling it nonsens and said in 5 years it will overdo statins in prescriptions, so it will be something 80% of people above 50 will be permanently on, because it will simply improve all of those health and life’s,

Btw, these are not usual drugs, these are some of the most unusual drugs ever,,, then again every bodybuilder taking steroids should also take Metformin and Telmisartan; so it’s not the only one,

 

[clearheaded]

I have always hated this idea amoung bodybuildere that more is better.

All more of the drug does it saturate the receptors more and make you dependent of more to have the same effect.

But no that does not go for effecting MORE receptors, that just balance the drug out more.

In fact so it is with steroids as well, splitting the effect out over more mechanisms gives less (not more) side effects,

But in this case an extra receptor is blocked to be more efficient and it leads to less side effects,

The mentioned cancer side effects are nonsens, its media spin.
There is not a single study showing such a thing as cancer,
And there is no logical case why it would be so.

Canada was concerned that we only have studies running since 2014, as their Health autoritiee Said, what if it leads to cancer in 40 years.

This is an economical argument, because this drug is expensive for countries to buy to their citizens and thats what wellphare systems like Canadas and Denmarks are obligated to. In Denmark they have simply refused, if people wants to get on the med there is no insurance coverrage.

Nova Nordic have responded by calling it nonsens and said in 5 years it will overdo statins in prescriptions, so it will be something 80% of people above 50 will be permanently on, because it will simply improve all of those health and life’s,

Btw, these are not usual drugs, these are some of the most unusual drugs ever,,, then again every bodybuilder taking steroids should also take Metformin and Telmisartan; so it’s not the only one,

bro u have no idea what ur talking about
-logical? what caused the cancer in mice? is that logical they got cancer?
-cancer side warning has 0 to do with media and more to do with law and companies being obligated to list it and say do not take if u have risk..again, nothing to do with media.
-is it logical a diabetic drug causes hair loss?
-Canada does not pay for ozempic.. its decided by provinces for 1. for 2 it costs hundreds of dollars even though canada does get better drug pricing from companies...folks get insurance to cover expensive drugs usually through employers.
- your making no sense man Denmark and canada both dont pay for it so your point is moot.
-yes lets believe big pharma over gov raising concerns as they review things u have never seen.

at any rate my point was more saying untested drugs are unwise to take, and is very real fact it may cause more cancer or kidney issues you have no idea. or perhaps cause hair to fall out worse than sema. infact if doesn't out perform in some way it won't get past approval, as the idea is to keep less drugs and be more certain they are safe.

 

[DanishPanther]

What I said is true mate, there is NO scientific evidence nor suspicion that any of these meds cause cancer in any way; on the contrary, they will prevent tons of cancers in tons of people.

You can read the meta-review here:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37531876/

I quote: Semaglutide and cancer: A systematic review and meta-analysis

Conclusion: Semaglutide use in RCTs and real-world studies was not associated with an increased risk of any types of cancer, and this conclusion is supported by a high grade of evidence.

Oh, and you don't understand how the wellphare system works here. Both in Denmark and Canada, every citizen has the right to free medical care anywhere, and they also pay a massive subsidy for most meds .... but they are trying not to with these drugs, because the official prices are insane, and so are the number of people who want on these drugs.

They tried to get EMA bosses to say there could be a risk, and that it would take decades to find out, didn't work out well for them though. The last thing I heard is that they are trying to claim that the meds could cause "suicides".

They are pissing up wind to trying to save billions; sadly they will lose, these meds are all win, with very little loss.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/eu-regulator-says-no-direct-link-between-glp-1-drugs-thyroid-cancer-2023-10-27/

The European Medicines Agency (EMA) on Friday said its safety panel did not find a causal link between popular GLP-1 drugs such as Novo Nordisk's https://www.reuters.com/markets/companies/NOVOb.CO ((NOVOb.CO)) Ozempic and thyroid cancer after a months-long review.

Also, the thing about hair falling off and such, is that's the price of going into a huge kcal deficit (depending on what you eat as well), you can't blame the drug for that, mostly the same with kidney problems or gallstones ...

 

[bigtyivier2k2]

I’m running 10-15mg of tirz without any sides and have used 2mg of Ozempic with no issues … I’m a hungry boy so it usually takes a bit to kill my appetite.

With that kinda Tirz dose you didnt get horrible gas and bloating

 

[runway]

For how long can you stay at 2.5 mg Tirzepatide per week before you need to increase dosage? (If you never used any GLP-1/GIP before.)
Is it better to divide the dosage to 2x 1.25 mg per week?
What is a realistic timeframe to lose 15-20 kg with Tirz?

 

[TessaM]

For how long can you stay at 2.5 mg Tirzepatide per week before you need to increase dosage? (If you never used any GLP-1/GIP before.)
Is it better to divide the dosage to 2x 1.25 mg per week?
What is a realistic timeframe to lose 15-20 kg with Tirz?

Pharma titration is 4 weeks per step. Many stay at a dose longer: until blood sugar control or appetite suppression wanes. Clinical guidelines past 5mg is to titrate after it's been a month of no weight loss.

Dividing is ... divisive. Some swear by it. My theory is that tolerance can get built one of two ways: by metabolizing the drug more efficiently, or by growing new receptors to compensate for increased binding. If the latter, then dividing may actually hurt since there's no "downtime" near the end of a dose to help discourage that tolerance-building.

The pharma schedule works; no strong reason not to use it.

Same as other weight-loss you should shoot for ~0.5-1kg a week. Faster puts strain on the liver and kidneys excreting fat and whatever else the body stashed in your fat cells for safe keeping.

 

[KLG]

I got up to 1mg Semaglutide and have switched over to Tirz since the Semaglutide was making me extremely tired. 5mg doesn't seem nearly as effective as the Semaglutide was and I'm guessing it's due to cross tolerance. Anyone have a similar experience?

Same experience I had. I moved up the dose slightly and it worked its magic. Just be careful to titrate up the smallest possible dose because the side effects can be debilitating. Be safe and best of luck!

 

[slpanico]

For how long can you stay at 2.5 mg Tirzepatide per week before you need to increase dosage? (If you never used any GLP-1/GIP before.)
Is it better to divide the dosage to 2x 1.25 mg per week?
What is a realistic timeframe to lose 15-20 kg with Tirz?

I have stayed at 2.5 for 6 months with slow and steady weight loss. I did not see a reason the up my dose as long as I was losing. Others need tof ollow the pharma sked. Everyone is different. I am at my goal weight and trying to figure out a good maintenance dose.

 

[DECLAN]

I have stayed at 2.5 for 6 months with slow and steady weight loss. I did not see a reason the up my dose as long as I was losing. Others need tof ollow the pharma sked. Everyone is different. I am at my goal weight and trying to figure out a good maintenance dose.

Are you diabetic or still overweight? Why use the medication for maintenance unless you have an eating disorder or have not structured a healthy nutritional diet.

With the influx of new members nowadays I am confused if I am talking to people who train or just obese people who don’t need muscle but just loosing weight to be healthy.

 

[slpanico]

Are you diabetic or still overweight? Why use the medication for maintenance unless you have an eating disorder or have not structured a healthy nutritional diet.

With the influx of new members nowadays I am confused if I am talking to people who train or just obese people who don’t need muscle but just loosing weight to be healthy.

Not diabetic or overweight.. I am 61 yrs old and needed a kick to drop some much needed weight. I have spent a good portion of my years in the gym and the past couple years the body has really slowed down and the years of abuse come back to haunt you with a vengance. I eat healthy, take supplements and hit the gym at least 4 days a week. When you are the only male of my age group, in my family, that does not have a major health issue, you do what you can to keep yourself in the best possible condition.
I understand where you are coming from on the influx of newbies, I have learned a lot just by reading through the forums.. I enjoy all the back and forth on some of the threads things have not changed ..

 

[DECLAN]

Not diabetic or overweight.. I am 61 yrs old and needed a kick to drop some much needed weight. I have spent a good portion of my years in the gym and the past couple years the body has really slowed down and the years of abuse come back to haunt you with a vengance. I eat healthy, take supplements and hit the gym at least 4 days a week. When you are the only male of my age group, in my family, that does not have a major health issue, you do what you can to keep yourself in the best possible condition.
I understand where you are coming from on the influx of newbies, I have learned a lot just by reading through the forums.. I enjoy all the back and forth on some of the threads things have not changed ..

Damn, 61, much respect Sir. I understand at your age, keeping your weight down and maintaining health is different compared to younger guys.

 

[TessaM]

Are you diabetic or still overweight? Why use the medication for maintenance unless you have an eating disorder or have not structured a healthy nutritional diet.

Fundamentally, these drugs work by fooling the brain into thinking that the body's setpoint is down there v, not up here ^.

They're so effective because the body defends its setpoints vigorously: it does trickery to make you eat less and move more--even unconsciously--if you, say, had put on a few lbs over Christmas and overshoot your setpoint. It also does that the other way around, e.g. when you've lost 10% of your body weight on a diet and it thinks you need to refill empty coffers.

There is a significant evidence that the brain takes years or longer to re-adjust how it responds to nutrients based on a prior setpoint--i.e. appetite, sense of smell, and cravings all remain elevated after weight loss, because that prior high setpoint keeps being defended by the brain.

But then being overweight or obese does some sneaky things while you're fat that sabotage the process of resetting that point by maintaining a consistent weight.

E.g. the skeleton does a bunch of leptin signalling work; that bish doesn't turn over for about a decade. Being fat also trashes GH levels maybe-permanently, esp in women, which has an impact on daily energy levels (see also: aging). Exercise during weight loss turns out to lower RMR further than weight loss alone, and it doesn't bounce back even when checked 5 years later, so a cheat day is that much more derailing.

And a bunch more things, too, but you get the idea.

So once you get skinny, you need to not only have diet and exercise dialed in to a lower RMR than you had from before getting fat, but it may take years to get to the point where it feels to the brain like not being on an extreme diet all the time. Ugh.

Building muscle helps with some of this, of course, but not all of it. Suffice to say many skinny people who were fat for more than a few years are just not the same physiologically as people who never got fat in the first place.

For some it's likely it will take years for after reaching a goal weight for their body to adjust the new lower setpoint that it can defend as zealously as it defended the higher one. If ever, for some.

Hence the idea of "maintenance dose."

 

[ShredSeason]

With that kinda Tirz dose you didnt get horrible gas and bloating

In my experience, that only comes if you eat too much. I do VLCD with my GLP, and I basically do not ever burp or fart anymore. The only GI problem I run into is constipation. After some experimenting, I found that 400 mg of magnesium with 2-4 tbsp of flax seeds/day keeps things running perfectly. This has to be strictly adhered to though.

 

[Disarmer]

Fundamentally, these drugs work by fooling the brain into thinking that the body's setpoint is down there v, not up here ^.

They're so effective because the body defends its setpoints vigorously: it does trickery to make you eat less and move more--even unconsciously--if you, say, had put on a few lbs over Christmas and overshoot your setpoint. It also does that the other way around, e.g. when you've lost 10% of your body weight on a diet and it thinks you need to refill empty coffers.

There is a significant evidence that the brain takes years or longer to re-adjust how it responds to nutrients based on a prior setpoint--i.e. appetite, sense of smell, and cravings all remain elevated after weight loss, because that prior high setpoint keeps being defended by the brain.

But then being overweight or obese does some sneaky things while you're fat that sabotage the process of resetting that point by maintaining a consistent weight.

E.g. the skeleton does a bunch of leptin signalling work; that bish doesn't turn over for about a decade. Being fat also trashes GH levels maybe-permanently, esp in women, which has an impact on daily energy levels (see also: aging). Exercise during weight loss turns out to lower RMR further than weight loss alone, and it doesn't bounce back even when checked 5 years later, so a cheat day is that much more derailing.

And a bunch more things, too, but you get the idea.

So once you get skinny, you need to not only have diet and exercise dialed in to a lower RMR than you had from before getting fat, but it may take years to get to the point where it feels to the brain like not being on an extreme diet all the time. Ugh.

Building muscle helps with some of this, of course, but not all of it. Suffice to say many skinny people who were fat for more than a few years are just not the same physiologically as people who never got fat in the first place.

For some it's likely it will take years for after reaching a goal weight for their body to adjust the new lower setpoint that it can defend as zealously as it defended the higher one. If ever, for some.

Hence the idea of "maintenance dose."

Having gone from 330lbs to 185lbs in a previous stage of life I agree with most, if not all of this

 

[DECLAN]

Fundamentally, these drugs work by fooling the brain into thinking that the body's setpoint is down there v, not up here ^.

They're so effective because the body defends its setpoints vigorously: it does trickery to make you eat less and move more--even unconsciously--if you, say, had put on a few lbs over Christmas and overshoot your setpoint. It also does that the other way around, e.g. when you've lost 10% of your body weight on a diet and it thinks you need to refill empty coffers.

There is a significant evidence that the brain takes years or longer to re-adjust how it responds to nutrients based on a prior setpoint--i.e. appetite, sense of smell, and cravings all remain elevated after weight loss, because that prior high setpoint keeps being defended by the brain.

But then being overweight or obese does some sneaky things while you're fat that sabotage the process of resetting that point by maintaining a consistent weight.

E.g. the skeleton does a bunch of leptin signalling work; that bish doesn't turn over for about a decade. Being fat also trashes GH levels maybe-permanently, esp in women, which has an impact on daily energy levels (see also: aging). Exercise during weight loss turns out to lower RMR further than weight loss alone, and it doesn't bounce back even when checked 5 years later, so a cheat day is that much more derailing.

And a bunch more things, too, but you get the idea.

So once you get skinny, you need to not only have diet and exercise dialed in to a lower RMR than you had from before getting fat, but it may take years to get to the point where it feels to the brain like not being on an extreme diet all the time. Ugh.

Building muscle helps with some of this, of course, but not all of it. Suffice to say many skinny people who were fat for more than a few years are just not the same physiologically as people who never got fat in the first place.

For some it's likely it will take years for after reaching a goal weight for their body to adjust the new lower setpoint that it can defend as zealously as it defended the higher one. If ever, for some.

Hence the idea of "maintenance dose."

Having used semaglutide at the end of my cut last year, I would say it is pretty weak on controlling the food noise for me. Highest dose I’ve gone though ia pretty low, 1mg every 5 days. I tried it to control food noise on the last 4 weeks when cravings and hunger is at its worse.

Maybe I will use it again mid way and see if it works better. I don’t want to buy the other types of glps yet until I fully certain sema doesn’t agree with me.

 

[narta]

Having used semaglutide at the end of my cut last year, I would say it is pretty weak on controlling the food noise for me. Highest dose I’ve gone though ia pretty low, 1mg every 5 days. I tried it to control food noise on the last 4 weeks when cravings and hunger is at its worse.

Maybe I will use it again mid way and see if it works better. I don’t want to buy the other types of glps yet until I fully certain sema doesn’t agree with me.

Titrate up to 2mg+

 

[DECLAN]

Titrate up to 2mg+

I will on my next run and see how it does. I would do it earlier on my next run instead of the end maybe it needs longer for effects to work for me.

 

[runway]

The pharma schedule works; no strong reason not to use it.

I was thinking more of the money saving aspect of it. Like 2,5 mg every 5 days would be 15 mg per month vs 1,25 mg 2x per week would be 10 mg per month.

Or is it possible to just inject once weekly like only Mondays? Would that be enough? Or do you really get a hunger rebound by day 5?

Also what kind of insulin syringes do you all use? Never done subcutan injections so far.

 

[SillySally]

bro u have no idea what ur talking about
-logical? what caused the cancer in mice? is that logical they got cancer?
-cancer side warning has 0 to do with media and more to do with law and companies being obligated to list it and say do not take if u have risk..again, nothing to do with media.
-is it logical a diabetic drug causes hair loss?
-Canada does not pay for ozempic.. its decided by provinces for 1. for 2 it costs hundreds of dollars even though canada does get better drug pricing from companies...folks get insurance to cover expensive drugs usually through employers.
- your making no sense man Denmark and canada both dont pay for it so your point is moot.
-yes lets believe big pharma over gov raising concerns as they review things u have never seen.

at any rate my point was more saying untested drugs are unwise to take, and is very real fact it may cause more cancer or kidney issues you have no idea. or perhaps cause hair to fall out worse than sema. infact if doesn't out perform in some way it won't get past approval, as the idea is to keep less drugs and be more certain they are safe.

Some very basic googling will “logically” tell you why it causes cancer in rats and not in humans but let me help. “Glucagon-like peptide-1 receptor agonists activate rodent thyroid C-cells causing calcitonin release and C-cell proliferation.” Could it actually be you who has no idea what they’re talking about?

https://www.ccjm.org/content/ccjom/82/3/142.full.pdf