MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Giant Semaglutide Thread (and other GLP-1 / GIP agonists)
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narta
Member
HFCS is pure crack. Worst ingredient ever developed and included in the food industry.
You do understand that geigi are the equivalent of western prostitutes, right? The long term relationships you are referring are nothing but what in plain English would be called a side chick.
Ghoul
Well-known Member
No they are not the equivalent. It's far less transactional than that, and when they choose to accept an offer from a man to become her patron, there's a ceremony similar to taking marriage vows which is expected to be a lifetime commitment, and he must provide for all of the expenses of the lifestyle she's accustomed to. They are usually highly talented in an art, and expected to keep up her end in conversations from history, to global politics and business. It's not uncommon for a Geisha to retire and marry her patron if his wife dies. Japan has prostitutes that operate in the "western" sense, but those are not Geisha.
Geisha usually apply for the many years of training required (before ever working) as early teens, and it's a highly respected and revered position in Japan, seen as a high art, and an honorable reflection on their families.
This dynamic between a younger, charismatic woman and a wealthy, older patron has taken one form or another in every sophisticated culture for the last 3000 years. Entirely separate from prostitution, though I know it's often conflated.
The fact is, there's some element of transactionalism in every heterosexual relationship, even if it's glossed over by romanticism and fairy tales about love "conquering all".
The NUMBER ONE predictor of divorce in the US is the male partner becoming unemployed. Conversely, a woman losing her job, even as the primary earner, doesn't increase the odds of divorce at all.
I was in a court audience once, and I saw a female judge turn to an early 20s male defendant and say "I know this is supposed to be an equal society, but there's just something really wrong when a male is living with his parents and not out there making money".
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narta
Member
You can theoretically call them whatever you want. They are artisans and highly educated ones, can hold their own, but they are still side chicks. They get money for services rendered.
You can write poems and stories, myth and legend, but Mr. Hideki is sugar daddy to Lady Ochako and that's about it. They just opt to paint it like something that it isn't because Japan culture, as a whole, likes be considered as a noble culture.
UncleBuns
Well-known Member
What you've highlighted is a very vague statement. That's like saying fire can burn your house down so you should do all your cooking for the week at one time with a big fire as cooking everyday gives a higher odds of starting a house fire. I'm not buying it.
Ghoul
Well-known Member
I understand where you're coming from. I could easily write a novel with every citation backing every assertion I'm making, and then be attacked for that (insulted by idiots name calling more likely), by people who won't even read it. I try to make it accessible. Cut to the essentials, and I'm criticized for not substantiating it sufficiently.
On top of all of that, this is still an emerging area pharmaceutical science, where they (the FDA, pharma researchers) know something is happening, they can measure certain aspects of it, and take action to minimize the harm it causes, but there still uncertainty about the precise mechanism of action. Toss in the added "confounder" that UGL versions of these compounds are a mess, regardless of what a "purity" test demonstrates, and it becomes impossible to say anything with certainty.
Since you were decent enough to not resort to low brow ad hominem attacks, I'd be happy to address specific aspects you take issue with and provide more detailed info.
Tbf, I don't think it is as prevalent in Europe as it is in the States.
Asians seem to be using it a fair amount too (I have seen it listed in many Japanese things).
I hope it will not become as ubiquitous as it is there.
Safe travels back, soon.
narta
Member
Europe is stricter and the HFCS lobby is non existent. In Murica, that lobby can bring down politicians like a house of cards.
UncleBuns
Well-known Member
My take is injection frequency is based on half life. These protocols are designed for the general public and the less injections needed the higher rate of compliance they will get.
You've probably done way more reading than me on the immune response topic, but I don't see how one large bolus would make much of a difference than multiple smaller ones. The odds of someone having an immune response is quite low, but if someone is prone to that happening, I doubt the injection frequency will change much. Most people will not become allergic and the ones that do just will no matter what protocol they use. I don't see how this would be any different than other allergies like food allergies or bee venom allergy, etc. Those are also immune responses to proteins and certain people just are going to be allergic to certain things and the frequency of them interacting with it is not going to change much.
So the gentleman you objected to said that, as long as it is consensual, he doesn't necessarily object to a massive age gap but he would not find someone as old as his kids attractive.
This became about you and your gf.
You brought studies about prefrontal cortex development (that's why I thought it was about age of consent, before I went back and had a look at it all), whereas others raised points of a moral nature.
Then enter the Japanese ladies of leisure.
You understand that someone who is a father, in his 50s, would look at a relationship between someone like him and a 18-20 year old in a very different way than you, since you said you do not have offspring.
So, saying that him taking exception to this is a
Is extremely prejudiced and unjust.
You consider consent as not relevant in this kind of situation, but even so, the gentleman that wrote you was maybe thinking more in terms of power dynamics and whether that could produce an imbalance that could become exploitative and manipulative.
narta
Member
@iris you are wasting your keystrokes
He thinks that people that opt to not have a relationship with a much younger woman is because they can't, not because they don't want to. Everything in his self centered little world is what you can and can't do. There is no want or don't want.
He can have a younger gf (as per his statement) and others just can't and that's why they object to it and they are losers.
But he can't lose weight because he has a genetic disorder, not because he is a loser.
See the hypocrisy?
He could be a great addition to the community, but he chooses to be the residential self centered narcissistic ahole.
He thinks that people that opt to not have a relationship with a much younger woman is because they can't, not because they don't want to. Everything in his self centered little world is what you can and can't do. There is no want or don't want.
He can have a younger gf (as per his statement) and others just can't and that's why they object to it and they are losers.
But he can't lose weight because he has a genetic disorder, not because he is a loser.
See the hypocrisy?
He could be a great addition to the community, but he chooses to be the residential self centered narcissistic ahole.
Very interesting. I actually started with glp drugs when they first came into my sights. Was about 3 years ago now. So I don’t remember reading any info on how to come off back then.
I went from using Sema about 7.5 months of that first year. Year 2 was about all Tirz for 2/3 of it. Year 3 has been Tirz then off then Reta. I have had zero issues with it not being effective each time. But that makes sense since I graduated in drug strength.
I imagine it will be a little less effective dropping from Reta into a few months off and right back to Tirz. I love these drugs btw. I’ve never been fat but I was one of those people that thought about food all damn day. It’s amazing having a freed up mind with the significant appetite suppression. Wish they were around a decade ago.
I just thought that man he replied to did not deserve such contempt.
I don't think Ghoul's relationship has been judged in that manner.
Maybe he was not believed but that's another thing.
Yet if one does not want to entertain such situation, they are called puritanical losers.
So that is not right.
Ghoul is stubborn and set in his ways, as most of us are.
Maybe sometimes he says stuff without looking at the context.
Idk. I mess up all the time, so I don't want to criticise when I could be worse than that, although I can have an opinion on what he writes.
You guys keep calling him fat and say he cannot lose weight.
I want to say that I don't know about that.
I have no idea if that is the case.
Feel free to call me a retard because, well, too often I am and I tend not to doubt what is said to me.
The fact that he can be judgmental, very quickly, is the thing that I can see.
Anything else I would just be insulting him and picking on things I am not comfortable with.
Thank you for writing.
You are almost sweeter than my cookies.
Ghoul
Well-known Member
Bro, I really appreciate this intelligently presented challenge. I'm always revising my thinking based on new info, and bringing this up forces me to reevaluate my understanding of what are often infinitely complex topics, along with trying to respond in a way that's digestible, which I enjoy. So thanks for that.
First a few clarifications:
-I'm a layman. If a biopharmaceutical PhD wanders into here by accident, don't get offended, give me a break on the finer points as long as the broad outlines of peptide immunogenicity are correct
-I'm not getting into the Pharmacokinetics of daily vs weekly injections and half-life with this answer, only because based on what I've learned its significance pales in comparison to the importance of immunogenicity and how multiple sub-q injections increase the threat.
-I won't go into the detail of whether antidrug antibodies are significant or the "danger signals" that create them, like aggregates, impurities from crap containers and stoppers, leaking silicone droplets from no-name Chinese syringes, or mystery excipients used by the UGL lab making the peptide. For the purpose of this answer, we'll assume they are bad, they happen, and we don't want them.
-I'm going to speak in generalities and simplifying only as needed to keep the answer straightforward. I'm aware there are more details and nuances of biology but that would take forever. I'm sticking to the main points of how this works.
-The exact type, and whether a reaction happens differs from peptide to peptide (longer the peptide chain is the more likely it is), and from person to person. If someone has a weak immune system, it's less likely to happen, for instance.
We can address any of these things in more detail afterwards if you want.
The focus here is to explain why multiple sub-q injections are worse than fewer injections, from the standpoint of creating unwanted immunity to a peptide:
---------------------
The skin is rich in Dendric cells because breaking our skin is a common route infectious material would have to take to enter our bodies. An IV or IM injection bypasses this "front line" of defense, we haven't evolved to deal with things getting directly onto our veins or muscles, and are far less likely to result in immunity developing.
When Dendric cells recognize a foreign body from our injection, it carries off samples through the lymphatic system, to a lymph node, and presents these samples to a T-cell. The T-cell generates weapons to destroy the invader, including cytokines (which trigger an inflammatory reaction) among other things I'll get into.
This is a crucial factor. Only a tiny fraction of our injected material is carried off to be presented to T-cells as samples. The rest of the compound has time to get into the blood stream and go do its work throughout the body.
Whether the dose is .25mg or 5mg, the available Dendric cells to carry off samples via the lymph network is quickly saturated in a single injection, and 99.99% of the rest of the injected drug gets into the bloodstream as it's supposed to. So a tiny or large injection isn't going to make much of a difference in the initial immune response.
Anyway, the other thing the T-Cell does is signals B-cells to "mature" into "plasma B-cells" to completely surround the drug molecule and carry it off for elimination. There are extras of these in our system for a while, ready to jump on the next injection of the same peptide, so will be more effective at neutralizing the next dose, if taken soon after the first.
Finally, some "memory B-cells" will be created, that are long lasting. Sometimes for days, or as long as a lifetime. These are the antidrug antibodies of concern. They don't even need to wait for T-cell involvement. The moment the injection happens, they can start neutralizing the drug.
Every time there's another sub-q injection, irrespective (mostly) of dose, a new batch of long lasting "memory B-cells" is created, making us more and more immune to the protein based drug we're trying to use. A less frequent injection will build these up at a slower rate than a daily injection, regardless of dose.
This is why many immunization shots are tiny, given as multiple injections, to create a larger supply of immunity creating "memory B-cells" than a larger, single injection would.
So fewer Sub-Q injections=fewer memory B-cells potentially created = smaller amount of peptide neutralized prior to reaching its therapeutic target in future injections.
As a practical oversimplified example, using abstract numbers for illustration: If a once a week large dose injection creates 100 Memory B-Cells which eliminate 100 molecules of the large weekly dose in the next injection, the drug may still be effective, just slightly less. A 1/7th small dose daily injection creating 100 Memory B-Cells each time is eliminating 700 molecules of the peptide's total weekly dose. It's probably worse, since the short life plasma B-cells may still be present the next day which will neutralize even more, while a week later they're probably gone and won't neutralize any of the drug.
View: https://youtu.be/NCJmoPfOZlI?si=GoyIsKZ-lxZr_GUA
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Ghoul
Well-known Member
The TLDR was summed accidentally by a pharma CEO a few months ago.
They have to make 100x the active ingredient for EACH daily oral dose to be effective, vs the amount needed for a once a week injection.
Short of a breakthrough, orals will only be an extremely expensive option in the wealthiest countries, to accomodate the truly needle phobic.
Middle income countries will get injection pens to minimize needle fear.
Poor countries will get a multi-dose vial and a pack of generic dull insulin syringes.
Who are you using?
Pharma vs non?
Dosage?
How long have you been taking it?
What are your thoughts?
Have you lost weight?
Side effects?
Oral vs injection?
Tests?
U are terrible...
Declan, u know he does not want to do it.
I asked why but we don't know.
You are persistent, I give you that.
Does your wife tell you that, too?
Nah, it’s for everyone. I am just refreshing anyone new who hasn’t monitored the whole thread and the original postU are terrible...
Declan, u know he does not want to do it.
I asked why but we don't know.
You are persistent, I give you that.
Does your wife tell you that, too?
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