For the life of me I don't know what the purpose of this GT quality discussion is about, bc we will never KNOW until the manufactures release their analytical data and THAT will NEVER happen.
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janoshik
Subscriber
1) What you got against Mexicans and Chinese ?
2) Long chain ...
"?
The lack of quality control in their pharma products is NOT on level w US standards and is one reason why their MEDS have very limited access to the U.S.market.
2) that again is a product that is being used to facilitate in-vitro culture growth, and although it may be purchased thru the net, it's use in the U.S. is limited to research facilities.
janoshik
Subscriber
Your post speaks volumes in between the lines, JIM.
Marcus
New Member
You said "indeed small amounts of e.coli were detected in both GT samples that underwent enzymatic LC/MS testing. See janos post above with quote
@Marcus this is my original post,
I only mention this bc there is a HUGE difference between the presence of E-coli versus "small amounts of E-coli protein".
While the former suggests BACTERIAL contamination the latter implies, among other possibilities, a less stringent form of purification was used.
Oh and although Jano doesn't understand the difference or significance bt the presence of E-coli VS E-coli protein in an Trypsin cleavage LC/MS I certainly do......
But I would expect nothing different out of that PROVEN FRAUD!
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Doug_S
Member
Please provide these data or at the least, a synopsis sheet.
Ripped
New Member
+1 I would also appreciate it.
This thread is pointless bc it's more of the same double standard nonsense appeasing some fraudulent lab rat who desperately needs to enhance his own credibility.
Whatever data he needs or wants he can acquire on his own
accord bc I've other things to do than pander to those of his ilk.
Some members need to review Millards AL data, perhaps then you'll understand WHY, he never embarked on this data trail.
Adios
Whatever data he needs or wants he can acquire on his own
accord bc I've other things to do than pander to those of his ilk.
Some members need to review Millards AL data, perhaps then you'll understand WHY, he never embarked on this data trail.
Adios
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Marcus
New Member
I don't think anything we are asking is unfair. Mands, Jano, Doug, ripped and myself have all kindly asked just that you provide that data to back your claim regarding e.coli in the sample, even if it is a small amount.
If you remembered incorrectly, ok... no big deal, but you made a very definitive claim. Then you told me I need to read more closely. Then you said there is a difference between an insignificant amount and significant amount, which I and everyone I'm sure agree with.
Literally all we are asking is that you provide that data to substantiate this statement. The same you would ask if anyone else. You say you won't pander to "those of his ilk," I'm not even entirely sure if your referring to GT or Jano or whomever at this point.
But at this point it just plain looks like you were wrong... which it's ok to be. But please stop back pedaling dr Jim
Goodness gracious this is why these pursuits are meaningless.
Read my post one more time
I said the LC/MS reveal small amounts of E-coli PROTEIN and NOT E-COLI!!!!!!
And I also stated I would forward
the ALL the LC/MS info to MANDS to ensure he could review the data himself, if he doesn't have it already.
But the data must first be DOWNLOADED and then CONVERTED into a printable version, using a format I DONT have on my MAC, before it can posted ANYWHERE.
And if he has the time to download, covert and or reformat the data from the labs linked site into a reproducible printable version that's fine by me, but I've more important priorities in my life than revisiting the same issue every time you guys run this stuff, "what's wrong with my GGH" this time.
The bottom line, your barking up the wrong tree fella bc even though the presence of a foreign protein may help explain some of the problems experienced by GT users the most reliable means of elucidating the cause/s remains a controlled clinical trial IN ADDITION to a multitude of analytical and/or biological assays. (All of which was required by the FDA before a U.S rHGH Pharma product is approved for sale)
To that end its obvious once again some don't understand they are looking for a needle (or SEVERAL) in a hay stack, that can NOT be answered by the testing MANDS and I did.
But it seems these facts continue to fall into deaf ears since the primary intent of our GGH AAA was mentioned several times AND that objective was to QUANTIFY GGH and NOT to determine its QUALITY, or to define its safety or relative risk compared to Pharma.
And finally since most of the data is graphic that must be correlated to several other pages of numerical info, with very little narrative info, I have NO DOUBT, very few MM will be able to interpret the info in a meaningful manner.
But JANO will still post endless irrelevant questions, and further expose his ignorance, and fraudulent character.
This IS my last post on this thread, enjoy Jano's company!
Read my post one more time
I said the LC/MS reveal small amounts of E-coli PROTEIN and NOT E-COLI!!!!!!
And I also stated I would forward
the ALL the LC/MS info to MANDS to ensure he could review the data himself, if he doesn't have it already.
But the data must first be DOWNLOADED and then CONVERTED into a printable version, using a format I DONT have on my MAC, before it can posted ANYWHERE.
And if he has the time to download, covert and or reformat the data from the labs linked site into a reproducible printable version that's fine by me, but I've more important priorities in my life than revisiting the same issue every time you guys run this stuff, "what's wrong with my GGH" this time.
The bottom line, your barking up the wrong tree fella bc even though the presence of a foreign protein may help explain some of the problems experienced by GT users the most reliable means of elucidating the cause/s remains a controlled clinical trial IN ADDITION to a multitude of analytical and/or biological assays. (All of which was required by the FDA before a U.S rHGH Pharma product is approved for sale)
To that end its obvious once again some don't understand they are looking for a needle (or SEVERAL) in a hay stack, that can NOT be answered by the testing MANDS and I did.
But it seems these facts continue to fall into deaf ears since the primary intent of our GGH AAA was mentioned several times AND that objective was to QUANTIFY GGH and NOT to determine its QUALITY, or to define its safety or relative risk compared to Pharma.
And finally since most of the data is graphic that must be correlated to several other pages of numerical info, with very little narrative info, I have NO DOUBT, very few MM will be able to interpret the info in a meaningful manner.
But JANO will still post endless irrelevant questions, and further expose his ignorance, and fraudulent character.
This IS my last post on this thread, enjoy Jano's company!
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Marcus
New Member
I can't speak for everyone, but I'm not asking for the reports to see what I was pinning as I'm sure batch to batch is so different that it's pointless. More so because I'm trying to learn more about this in general.
I might not be able to interpret it, but I can try and hopefully learn at some point... at least to some degree.
And I think I owe you an apology in regards to the e.coli protein. I thought you were saying that there was a contaminant, when instead I think my understanding is in fact that e.coli protein is used quite often to produce a multitude of proteins. If my understanding is accurate
janoshik
Subscriber
E Coli bacteria are used to manufacture HGH and if the purification process is not good enough, parts of the e coli bodies can still be contained within the HGH.
I interpreted your post as if not asking for whole e. coli but rather 'anything related to e coli that shouldn't have been there'
Basically nobody expected there to be whole living e coli bacteria in HGH, as that's not really possible so JIM just keeps doing his wordplay, deflecting and ultimately, not providing.
He makes me sad.
Doug_S
Member
It's late and I just got back from a flight but I will explain recombinant DNA in a cliff notes version tomorrow
Marcus
New Member
Thanks Doug! Much appreciated
janoshik
Subscriber
Thanks!
I unfortunately don't have the time to do that now, as I'm just leaving for a few days
Ripped
New Member
I'm sorry but any kind of respect for someone who continues to blame others or starts explaining something that has nothing to do with the question well that respect is quickly fading.
Doug_S
Member
So, in recombinant DNA technology, they basically cut a gene out of a plant or animal cell and insert it into a bacteria or other cell. Basically, you need to understand that a gene encodes for a protein and we want that protein.
The desired gene is cut using restriction enzymes from the donor cell.
Now you have to get the gene into the bacteria. They use a plasmid vector which is essentially a virus with the bad DNA removed. Viruses are not cells, but fragments of DNA encapsulated by protein. They are incapable of their own metabolism and use a cell's own metabolism to reproduce by attaching to the cell's DNA and are great at getting into the cell itself.
So the plasmid now has the gene inserted into it, so they let it do what viruses do - infect the cell! However now the cell has the gene we want in it and it can begin to encode the desired protein.
Now the bacteria are cultured and encouraged to grow and reproduce. When enough bacteria are present, they are harvested and subjected to purification and extraction to separate the desired protein from the rest of bacteria.
A lot of the purification processes can be expensive and complicated. Ultra centrifuges which are centrifuges capable of separation of different cellular components are used.
If GODT has e coli protein in it, the extraction and purification process has issues.
It's also why no one thought there was whole e coli in GODT as Dr. JIM stated.
Furthermore if there were whole ecoli it would not be indicative of contamination as he stated, it would mean they screwed up their purification process completely. This is why jano said it was impossible. It is impossible and no one thought he meant there were whole bacteria in there.
I am sorry, but the man makes wild claims that are completely wrong and when questioned deflects, rants, raves and carries on like a fool. He is a bullshitter who pretends to be an authority on everything and his knowledge is limited.
If you think many of the chemicals for FDA approved pharmaceuticals are NOT manufactured in China and India you are crazy. Everything else is (even our chicken is now being processed there) and so are many of our drugs.
The desired gene is cut using restriction enzymes from the donor cell.
Now you have to get the gene into the bacteria. They use a plasmid vector which is essentially a virus with the bad DNA removed. Viruses are not cells, but fragments of DNA encapsulated by protein. They are incapable of their own metabolism and use a cell's own metabolism to reproduce by attaching to the cell's DNA and are great at getting into the cell itself.
So the plasmid now has the gene inserted into it, so they let it do what viruses do - infect the cell! However now the cell has the gene we want in it and it can begin to encode the desired protein.
Now the bacteria are cultured and encouraged to grow and reproduce. When enough bacteria are present, they are harvested and subjected to purification and extraction to separate the desired protein from the rest of bacteria.
A lot of the purification processes can be expensive and complicated. Ultra centrifuges which are centrifuges capable of separation of different cellular components are used.
If GODT has e coli protein in it, the extraction and purification process has issues.
It's also why no one thought there was whole e coli in GODT as Dr. JIM stated.
Furthermore if there were whole ecoli it would not be indicative of contamination as he stated, it would mean they screwed up their purification process completely. This is why jano said it was impossible. It is impossible and no one thought he meant there were whole bacteria in there.
I am sorry, but the man makes wild claims that are completely wrong and when questioned deflects, rants, raves and carries on like a fool. He is a bullshitter who pretends to be an authority on everything and his knowledge is limited.
If you think many of the chemicals for FDA approved pharmaceuticals are NOT manufactured in China and India you are crazy. Everything else is (even our chicken is now being processed there) and so are many of our drugs.
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Marcus
New Member
Thank you so much for this Doug, that helps a lot. Just bookmarked it...
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