Grapefruit vs. Hematocrit

[mrjodaa]

hi, I just want to say that grapefruit works for my hct, but I have a problem now, I need to take 40mg of telmisartan for my high blood pressure and 10mg of ezetimibe for cholesterol, do you think it will be a problem with grapefruit?

 

[sfbizercer]

hi, I just want to say that grapefruit works for my hct, but I have a problem now, I need to take 40mg of telmisartan for my high blood pressure and 10mg of ezetimibe for cholesterol, do you think it will be a problem with grapefruit?

Food-Drug Interactions - PMC

The effect of drug on a person may be different than expected because that drug interacts with another drug the person is taking (drug-drug interaction), food, beverages, dietary supplements the person is consuming (drug-nutrient/food interaction) ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Simvastatin, Ezetimibe, pravastatin and fluvastatin may be taken without regards to food.

Interactions of grapefruit juice and cardiovascular medications: A potential risk of toxicity - PMC

Recently, drug interactions with grapefruit juice (GFJ) have received considerable attention from basic scientists, physicians, industry and drug regulatory agencies. GFJ has been shown to inhibit cytochrome P-450 3A4 isoenzyme and P-glycoprotein ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

At the present time, there are six A-II receptor antagonists marketed in Canada: candesartan cilexetil, eprosartan mesylate, irbesartan, losartan potassium, telmisartan and valsartan. Of these six agents, there is only one report of an interaction between losartan and GFJ.

Among the four classes of lipid-lowering agents currently marketed in Canada, only the HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors, also known as statins, have been found to interact with GFJ.

Anecdotally, I take 500mg naringin (the active compound in grapefruit in this context) for hematocrit, 20mg telmis for BP, 5mg ezetimibe for cholesterol and I'm fine.

 

[DECLAN]

Food-Drug Interactions - PMC

The effect of drug on a person may be different than expected because that drug interacts with another drug the person is taking (drug-drug interaction), food, beverages, dietary supplements the person is consuming (drug-nutrient/food interaction) ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Interactions of grapefruit juice and cardiovascular medications: A potential risk of toxicity - PMC

Recently, drug interactions with grapefruit juice (GFJ) have received considerable attention from basic scientists, physicians, industry and drug regulatory agencies. GFJ has been shown to inhibit cytochrome P-450 3A4 isoenzyme and P-glycoprotein ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Anecdotally, I take 500mg naringin (the active compound in grapefruit in this context) for hematocrit, 20mg telmis for BP, 5mg ezetimibe for cholesterol and I'm fine.

Did naringin help bring your hematocrit down? If it did, by how much?

 

[Basicdogdude]

Hello everyone!
Increased hematocrit is one of the most common issues associated with the use of AAS. It affects well-being, blood pressure, cognitive function, and can lead to the formation of blood clots.
The most effective way to lower hematocrit is to donate blood, but this temporary solution can cause iron deficiency, which reduces performance and quality of life in general.
Another way is to drink plenty of fluids and stay hydrated, but this only helps partially and only if you do it constantly, day after day.

Occasionally, various theories emerge claiming that some product or drug can reduce hematocrit. Are these theories genuine science or just bro-science? What is suitable and effective for athletes on AAS to use to control hematocrit?
In order to somehow sort this out, I gathered a dozen like-minded friends who were ready for experiments and periodic blood tests.
Each of them had a hematocrit above 50% and all of them have used AAS for a long time.

It was decided:
- the possible benefit of the experiment must exceed the possible harm;
- we will check the publicly available information.

First, we decided to check an article (PMID: 3243695) showing the effectiveness of grapefruit in reducing hematocrit.
Every day for 2 weeks we ate 1/2 or 1 grapefruit each day.
Tests were taken before the start and again on the 14-15th day of the protocol.

The first results were quite contradictory but interesting.
The effect was indeed observed; but, not for everyone and not always distinguishable from error.

View attachment 275156
(change in hematocrit level after 2 weeks)

We decided to continue and figure things out as we went along.
It turned out that those who took antiplatelet agents or nootropics with this protocol had a weak effect.
In addition, the whole fruit gave a more noticeable result.
In the end, after another 2 weeks the results were already more significant and promising.

View attachment 275157
(change in hematocrit level after 4 weeks)

Looks like it really works!
For a month we didn't notice any side effects, digestive problems, allergies, or anything else.

I decided to expand the group of subjects; we will recruit friends of our friends and generally everyone.
Therefore, if you are concerned about consistently high or increasing hematocrit, but are not ready to donate blood every 2-3 months, and you don’t mind eating plenty of grapefruits, you can join the experiment!

I would be glad to see blood tests before the start, impressions of the “treatment” of hematocrit, and analysis after a period of time consistently ingesting grapefruit.

Thank you for your attention! I hope this is useful and interesting to someone.

This is super awesome to see. I have narangin extract but it's wicked gross. I would rather eat grapefruit for sure.

 

[sfbizercer]

Did naringin help bring your hematocrit down? If it did, by how much?

Yes, 3 or 4% iirc. In line with OPs results.

Doesn't make any sense though considering a single grapefruit only has 15-130mg or naringin in it and I'm taking 500mg. My conclusion is that my narginin is underdosed/shitty, the ceiling of naringin's ability to lower hematocrit is not very high, my math is shitty, or some secret fourth thing!

 

[DECLAN]

Yes, 3 or 4% iirc. In line with OPs results.

Doesn't make any sense though considering a single grapefruit only has 15-130mg or naringin in it and I'm taking 500mg. My conclusion is that my narginin is underdosed/shitty, the ceiling of naringin's ability to lower hematocrit is not very high, my math is shitty, or some secret fourth thing!

Thank you.

My protocol didn’t work at all, my hemoglobin, hematocrit and rbc still rose even after supplementing narinigin, ip6 and nattokinase.

I switched from telmisartan to enaripril this month and will get another blood work done in two weeks to see if it helps. After that, I’m just going to get used to it unless I am willing to stop trt all together.

On the bright note, my gp said not to worry with my numbers since some people just have elevated numbers, so unlike my urologist who thinks I’m gonna drop dead of a stroke already lol.

 

[sfbizercer]

Thank you.

My protocol didn’t work at all, my hemoglobin, hematocrit and rbc still rose even after supplementing narinigin, ip6 and nattokinase.

I switched from telmisartan to enaripril this month and will get another blood work done in two weeks to see if it helps. After that, I’m just going to get used to it unless I am willing to stop trt all together.

On the bright note, my gp said not to worry with my numbers since some people just have elevated numbers, so unlike my urologist who thinks I’m gonna drop dead of a stroke already lol.

Interesting, my first thought would be that you just don't respond well but even then, three supplements I feel like you would see some difference. Not to mention ARB's also lower hematocrit (on average by like 1% so quite small). Depending how important it is to you (being on TRT) just go donate some blood every once in a while I guess :/

Not to be a debbie downer but it looks like enaripril has a similar reduction in hematocrit (about 1%) for a similar dose so not sure if it will drastically help but I hope it does at least a bit for your sake. I'm assuming you would have mentioned but did you up AA usage at all during this time? (or anything else that could raise hematocrit meaningfully?) Did you get the test done after a pin? One 500mg pin will spike the fuck out of your hematocrit compared to 5 100mg pins from what I've read, although I'm yet to actually test it myself.

And yeah docs like to harp on >50 since it can be indicative of heart diseases, but we all know the reason why our hemo/rbc is elevated haha. Are you low 50s which is basically just normal + some gear? or are we talking like high 50s+?

 

[SuperJew]

Thank you.

My protocol didn’t work at all, my hemoglobin, hematocrit and rbc still rose even after supplementing narinigin, ip6 and nattokinase.

I switched from telmisartan to enaripril this month and will get another blood work done in two weeks to see if it helps. After that, I’m just going to get used to it unless I am willing to stop trt all together.

On the bright note, my gp said not to worry with my numbers since some people just have elevated numbers, so unlike my urologist who thinks I’m gonna drop dead of a stroke already lol.

Bummer. What is your H/H typically at? I switched from Lisinopril to Losartan about 4-6 weeks ago and also added in Natto and upped cardio. I'm going to run labs tomorrow on: Iron, Ferritin and H/H. I can't recall if you said you donated blood often?

 

[SuperJew]

Interesting, my first thought would be that you just don't respond well but even then, three supplements I feel like you would see some difference. Not to mention ARB's also lower hematocrit (on average by like 1% so quite small). Depending how important it is to you (being on TRT) just go donate some blood every once in a while I guess :/

Not to be a debbie downer but it looks like enaripril has a similar reduction in hematocrit (about 1%) for a similar dose so not sure if it will drastically help but I hope it does at least a bit for your sake. I'm assuming you would have mentioned but did you up AA usage at all during this time? (or anything else that could raise hematocrit meaningfully?) Did you get the test done after a pin? One 500mg pin will spike the fuck out of your hematocrit compared to 5 100mg pins from what I've read, although I'm yet to actually test it myself.

And yeah docs like to harp on >50 since it can be indicative of heart diseases, but we all know the reason why our hemo/rbc is elevated haha. Are you low 50s which is basically just normal + some gear? or are we talking like high 50s+?

Oh man! You got a name change? I've been here 20 years and I couldn't get Super Sexy Member. Sniff Sniff

 

[DECLAN]

Bummer. What is your H/H typically at? I switched from Lisinopril to Losartan about 4-6 weeks ago and also added in Natto and upped cardio. I'm going to run labs tomorrow on: Iron, Ferritin and H/H. I can't recall if you said you donated blood often?

I had a slight increase from January blood draw, this time I didn’t donate though. My last donation is three days before january blood test.

I was on 100mg per week cyp for 3 months and my numbers are still elevated. I’ll attach my 2 latest test, the higher numbers are this months

 

[SuperJew]

I had a slight increase from January blood draw, this time I didn’t donate though. My last donation is three days before january blood test.

I was on 100mg per week cyp for 3 months and my numbers are still elevated. I’ll attach my 2 latest test, the higher numbers are this months

To my mind, those numbers are fine. There's many organizations that use a range up to 18/54 for men. How often do you have to donate to maintain those numbers?

 

[DECLAN]

First pic is January. My ferritin is 131, range is 18-444.

 

[DECLAN]

To my mind, those numbers are fine. There's many organizations that use a range up to 18/54 for men. How often do you have to donate to maintain those numbers?

4x a year.

 

[DECLAN]

Interesting, my first thought would be that you just don't respond well but even then, three supplements I feel like you would see some difference. Not to mention ARB's also lower hematocrit (on average by like 1% so quite small). Depending how important it is to you (being on TRT) just go donate some blood every once in a while I guess :/

Not to be a debbie downer but it looks like enaripril has a similar reduction in hematocrit (about 1%) for a similar dose so not sure if it will drastically help but I hope it does at least a bit for your sake. I'm assuming you would have mentioned but did you up AA usage at all during this time? (or anything else that could raise hematocrit meaningfully?) Did you get the test done after a pin? One 500mg pin will spike the fuck out of your hematocrit compared to 5 100mg pins from what I've read, although I'm yet to actually test it myself.

And yeah docs like to harp on >50 since it can be indicative of heart diseases, but we all know the reason why our hemo/rbc is elevated haha. Are you low 50s which is basically just normal + some gear? or are we talking like high 50s+?

I usually do blood test a week after last pin.

I am also puzzled on what actually works for me. The first time I have successfully lowered it to normal levels, I took 10 weeks off testosterone cold turkey then donated blood a day before the blood draw.

The strange thing is, the lowest numbers came when I was deep into a test/mast/tren blast lol.

I am going to start my cpap again even if I am borderline sleep apnea status, then incorporate enarapril which according to Chase Iron worked for him. This are the two additional factors I added before my April blood work.

I am not too worried about my values but it would be great to find ways to at least lower it a couple more points.

 

[freedom69]

I would be grateful if you show the before and after results. Thanks!

Received my partial bloods back from this week. Interesting to see that Primo also effects a few others H&H. I’ve experimented with a lot of compounds but the last few months has been my first go at Primo. I’ve reduced to a cruise of 250 TC/200 Primo the last 5 going on 6 weeks (mostly to check estrogen conversion for myself) but I haven't touched an AI in 6 months.

My hemoglobin is at 17.2 and my hematocrit is at 49.4. These are the highest I’ve ever seen on my results. Assuming my test and estro results are solid I’m going to continue this protocol and my GSE will be here today to start implementing 500mg daily. I’ll reassess these two levels after 4 weeks or so before donating again.

Wanted to do a follow up on this from late Feb. I started implementing 500mg daily GSE and have done so ever since (obviously also taking other supplements) but this is the only major change to normal. I actually skipped my normal blood donation pre cycle this time as I was truly curious if I could manage my H&H to see the effects of adding this. I finished my cruise phase and am now 6 weeks into Test C 375/DHB 400/Mast E 300. Had my mid cycle bloods done and was extremely pleased to see not only did my values stay in range they actually both reduced ON CYCLE! I’m a believer now.

Pre Cycle Cruise



On Cycle after 2.5 months of added GSE 500mg daily

 

[Laxman3221]

Being properly hydrated will lowers you levels move than supplements.

There a post on another board with 2 tests, 8 hrs a part. First is above range take. In the morning. The second is in range and taken in the afternoon after drinking water to be hydrated.

 

[krugerrand19]

Wanted to do a follow up on this from late Feb. I started implementing 500mg daily GSE and have done so ever since (obviously also taking other supplements) but this is the only major change to normal. I actually skipped my normal blood donation pre cycle this time as I was truly curious if I could manage my H&H to see the effects of adding this. I finished my cruise phase and am now 6 weeks into Test C 375/DHB 400/Mast E 300. Had my mid cycle bloods done and was extremely pleased to see not only did my values stay in range they actually both reduced ON CYCLE! I’m a believer now.

Pre Cycle Cruise
View attachment 283700


On Cycle after 2.5 months of added GSE 500mg daily

View attachment 283701

Hello, you take you dose of 500mg in one assumption, and at what part of the day?

Thank you for sharing

 

[Alyk89]

I’m on 90mg test 3x a week and I shoot up to the 54/18 range within 2-3months of donation.

I’ve tried grapefruit everyday, and nattokinese. Anyone have luck with IP6? How about the ARB route? My BP can range from 115/70 to 135/80. I run about 25miles a week so I doubt I need more cardio.

I got checked for sleep apnea and I had an AHI of 7 with my oxygenation levels being sufficient.

 

[RekTest]

Being properly hydrated will lowers you levels move than supplements.

There a post on another board with 2 tests, 8 hrs a part. First is above range take. In the morning. The second is in range and taken in the afternoon after drinking water to be hydrated.

I was about to mention this, I hog down water every single day and my hematocrit is never over 50, my last blood work June 7th had it at 47.

Im on TRT and never donate blood.
140mg/wk test c , going back to 200mg/wk (my last 200mg/wk bloodwork showed 49 hematocrit IIRC)


(Dont judge my test level, I missed a pin a week before)

 

[Avies48]

I was about to mention this, I hog down water every single day and my hematocrit is never over 50, my last blood work June 7th had it at 47.

Im on TRT and never donate blood.
140mg/wk test c , going back to 200mg/wk (my last 200mg/wk bloodwork showed 49 hematocrit IIRC)


(Dont judge my test level, I missed a pin a week before)

No need to donate when ur total is next to normal… it’s good as long as you see the mental and health benefits from that protocol.