Growth hormone

[AlexDavis43]

You said sides were "rare" at low doses. Cts is a side that I'm reading about from guys running generics no matter what the dose. Most guys here are aware of the painful side so they go into things planning on starting low(1or 2iu) and then titrate until the desired dose is reached. Titration, in theory, should make the negative sides more tolerable.

Have you experience with generic or pharm grade GH?

Maybe I'm one of the unlucky ones. Same CTS on pharma and UGL. Just depends on the dose for me.

*or lucky? bc I get the same results on pharma and UGL; and UGL is less expensive.

**CTS is not bad or unmanageable for me. Just a little uncomfortable when increasing dose for a few days.

 

[Sector]

Maybe I'm one of the unlucky ones. Same CTS on pharma and UGL. Just depends on the dose for me.

*or lucky? bc I get the same results on pharma and UGL; and UGL is less expensive.

**CTS is not bad or unmanageable for me. Just a little uncomfortable when increasing dose for a few days.

How much of a dose increase starts to bring these symptoms for you, and how slow/fast do you ramp up? (If you don't mind me asking)

1iu increase/week?
2iu increase/week?

 

[AlexDavis43]

How much of a dose increase starts to bring these symptoms for you, and how slow/fast do you ramp up? (If you don't mind me asking)

1iu increase/week?
2iu increase/week?

I learned the hard way by ramping up too fast in the beginning. For n00bz, try increasing 1-2 IU/wk in divided doses and see how your respond.

I worked up to one vial/d with manageable CTS and then switched to a new kit that was 12 IU and had symptoms again (I posted this like 3 posts up).

The symptoms for me aren't bad and you get used to them in a few days. But yeah I had symptoms when I first started at 2 IU. Dividing doses helps (AM/PM).

 

[MadaFacor]

You said sides were "rare" at low doses. Cts is a side that I'm reading about from guys running generics no matter what the dose. Most guys here are aware of the painful side so they go into things planning on starting low(1or 2iu) and then titrate until the desired dose is reached. Titration, in theory, should make the negative sides more tolerable.

Have you experience with generic or pharm grade GH?

Been running generic for 5 months. Started at 2 IU with no problem after a couple weeks went up to 4. It did cause me some CTS (which I'm already prone to) so I backed it down immediately back to two. Titrated back up to 5 where I'm running now. Limited issues with CTS. No issues with edema. Some acne but it was not having that problem until I had it in some other compounds. I do believe that most people don't have any issues at low doses. But we're all individuals and biochemically unique right?

 

[gburdell]

Not to sound like a broken record but sides for me (CTS/edema) are way better correlated with dose than source (pharma/UGL).

I've bounced back and forth between pharma and UGL a few times and the only time I notice sides is when increasing the dose of either.

Same. And I "feel" like I can correlate the potency with sides, basically at what IU the CTs come on at.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Same. And I "feel" like I can correlate the potency with sides, basically at what IU the CTs come on at.

I'm OK with feelz reports in this context. I worked up to 1 vial/d (tested ~10 IU) then reconstituted a kit that was 12 IU/vial. I felt symptoms for 3-4 days.

Not bad like PIP knots, just mildly uncomfortable in my hands.

 

[Ateam2023]

i use 12 iu per bottle tested hgh at 3.5 ius /day i am been on it for 3 months with my doses being split twice a day my point is i started last year on hgh at to high of a dose right outta the gate and i swelled up in my ankles/lower leg edema so i stopped till the 1st of this year , being sure to titrating the dose until i can handle 4 ius day , so far so good as far as sides are going no water retention and mild cts that was already pre-excisting i believe titrating is very important as well as split dosing to reduce side effects of hgh imo

 

[ThinkDeroid]

I am running GH since around 5 months at 4 iu/d and recently I have to elevate my forearm to an upright position (hands up in the air) while sleeping otherwise I wake up with my entire hand being numb which is a very awkward feeling.

I don't understand why preventing blood flow to the hand prevents going numb. Should be the opposite.

Anyway, I will stop in a week. If it weren't for those issues I would run it longer, the positives are just so great.

 

[Ateam2023]

I myself was only concerned with the lower leg edema. I already live with carpal tunnel so that doesn't bother me as much because I'm used to it. Yes, it is a pain in the ass waking up with numb hands. You just have to rub them together it feels really funny when they're numb lol but my lower leg edema is gone, but I made a few changes for that to happen and one of them was definitely titrating up

 

[Sector]

How would you guys rate the sleep effects on 4iu of GH? Is it really profound/noticeable?

 

[Ateam2023]

How would you guys rate the sleep effects on 4iu of GH? Is it really profound/noticeable?

i have the most unreal vivid dreams seems like i dream all night very off the wall dreams so i must be reaching rem sleep?

 

[Sector]

i have the most unreal vivid dreams seems like i dream all night very off the wall dreams so i must be reaching rem sleep?

Definitely sounds like it

 

[Jin23]

i have the most unreal vivid dreams seems like i dream all night very off the wall dreams so i must be reaching rem sleep?

REM sleep, aka the part of your sleep cycle where you dream, occurs every night for most everybody, unless somebody suffers from a serious sleep condition. If you remember dreams, for the most part, it means you were awake shortly after the REM phase occurs. The more dreams that you remember, generally speaking, the worse the quality of your sleep, ie. the more awakenings you had shortly after you dreamt, as otherwise you mostly forget your dreams.

What we generally strive for is to increase the amount of slow wave sleep, NREM3 and NREM4 (non rem phase 3 and 4). These are the truly restoring parts of your sleep.

GH does not particularly increase NREM3 nor NREM4, the use of rhGH might increase your sleep pressure in the beginning of it's use, because of it's sedating properties, which tend do dissipate with prolonged use, but in general terms, GH promotes sleep fragmentation, NREM2 and especially REM.

What particularly promotes SWS is GHRH, which can for instance very clearly be seen in growth hormone deficient patients, who's deficiency is because pituitary lack of GH release. When the pituitary fails to release GH, the hypothalamus tends to increase GHRH release which then promotes a big increase in SWS. Indeed patients with GHD of pituitary origin have big issues with too much sleep, they could sleep all day and their sleep architecture tends to be mostly SWS. Their sleep then gets normalized by the addition of rhGH, which returns a more normal pattern of NREM1 -> NREM2 -> NREM3/4 -> REM -> AWAKE or NREM1 ...

 

[Ateam2023]

REM sleep, aka the part of your sleep cycle where you dream, occurs every night for most everybody, unless somebody suffers from a serious sleep condition. If you remember dreams, for the most part, it means you were awake shortly after the REM phase occurs. The more dreams that you remember, generally speaking, the worse the quality of your sleep, ie. the more awakenings you had shortly after you dreamt, as otherwise you mostly forget your dreams.

What we generally strive for is to increase the amount of slow wave sleep, NREM3 and NREM4 (non rem phase 3 and 4). These are the truly restoring parts of your sleep.

GH does not particularly increase NREM3 nor NREM4, the use of rhGH might increase your sleep pressure in the beginning of it's use, because of it's sedating properties, which tend do dissipate with prolonged use, but in general terms, GH promotes sleep fragmentation, NREM2 and especially REM.

What particularly promotes SWS is GHRH, which can for instance very clearly be seen in growth hormone deficient patients, who's deficiency is because pituitary lack of GH release. When the pituitary fails to release GH, the hypothalamus tends to increase GHRH release which then promotes a big increase in SWS. Indeed patients with GHD of pituitary origin have big issues with too much sleep, they could sleep all day and their sleep architecture tends to be mostly SWS. Their sleep then gets normalized by the addition of rhGH, which returns a more normal pattern of NREM1 -> NREM2 -> NREM3/4 -> REM -> AWAKE or NREM1 ...

Excuse me but what is SWS? I missed that part

 

[Trades]

How would you guys rate the sleep effects on 4iu of GH? Is it really profound/noticeable?

As someone who has spent a lot of time with ghrp/ghrh peptides, a lot of time with rhGH in daily doses from 2iu to 10iu, depending on the season, and sometimes even ghrp/ghrh combined with rhGH, I can honestly say that the sleep thing must be very person dependent because I never noticed anything better or worse with my sleep in all of my gh experimentation.

I also smoke/vape weed/thc daily so there's that.

 

[Jin23]

Excuse me but what is SWS? I missed that part

Slow wave sleep = NREM3 and NREM4.

 

[Jin23]

As someone who has spent a lot of time with ghrp/ghrh peptides, a lot of time with rhGH in daily doses from 2iu to 10iu, depending on the season, and sometimes even ghrp/ghrh combined with rhGH, I can honestly say that the sleep thing must be very person dependent because I never noticed anything better or worse with my sleep in all of my gh experimentation.

I also smoke/vape weed/thc daily so there's that.

For people who smoke weed the use of rhGH before sleep is actually therapeutic. THC severely, if not entirely, diminishes REM. Which is ofc a bad thing. And GH has a chance at restoring some of that REM. You can also add some cholinergics to your sleep stack: alphaGpc, bacopa monnieri, phosphatidylserine, huperzine A, etc.

 

[Trades]

Thanks for the tip. Alphagpc is in my daily stack already (as is modafinil) and hup A I get 3-5x per week with my preworkout.

In no way am I disputing what you said about THC, but I've been a daily thc user for the last 20 years and my sleep "feels" "fine". Maybe I haven't had a good night of sleep in 20 years and I just don't know it.

 

[bighunanballs]

Growth hormone can be used with good safety. However, there are possible adverse side effects, particularly with high dosing and especially with chronic high dosing.

GH use can cause insulin resistance, increase serum free fatty acids, and increase TNF-alpha, lipoprotein (a), and fibrinogen. These effects can act towards increasing cardiovascular risk.

Additionally, growth hormone use can cause carpal tunnel syndrome, tarsal tunnel syndrome, peripheral neuropathy, compressive myelopathy, water retention, and sleep apnea. Acne can be promoted. Prolactin can be increased. In women, hirsutism, menstrual irregularities or endometrial hyperplasia can occur.

Of these, the most consistent effect is insulin resistance. This can essentially be guaranteed at sustained higher doses.

Other possible adverse side effects of GH use include increase in skin tags, imbalance in phosphate levels, hypervitaminosis D, promotion of arthritis, and growth promotion of existing cancers or polyps.

Incidentally, while increase in skin tags could seem a minor thing, there’s a strong correlation between having more than 3 skin tags and having increased risk of colon polyps. Gaining skin tags, then, may be a warning sign.

Long term GH use giving levels comparable to those occurring naturally in acromegaly may yield the adverse consequences of that condition. These include diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, heart enlargement, joint thickening, arthritis, coarse facial features, enlargement of hands and feet, thick skin, darkened skin, chronic fatigue, impotence, increased rate of death from cardiovascular disease, increased rate of death from cancer, and a two to four times overall increase in mortality rate. Of course, in acromegaly high GH levels are experienced for years or decades on end, and not every person with the condition suffers all these effects.

With all this said, when used in moderation GH’s track record for safety in bodybuilding is good. Problems usually are limited to worsening of insulin sensitivity and, commonly, carpal tunnel syndrome or other neuropathies which usually are reversible on cessation of use.

Extreme use, especially over an extended period, likely carries significant health harms and risks.

You literally plagiarized at least part pf this post from an article ON THIS FORUM.

hGH (Human Growth Hormone)

HGH is the most efficient hormone anyone can use and commonly referred to as the fountain of youth. Men and women tolerate HGH very well

thinksteroids.com

next time have an original thought

Lol I thought it was a bot post at first

 

[Jin23]

Thanks for the tip. Alphagpc is in my daily stack already (as is modafinil) and hup A I get 3-5x per week with my preworkout.

In no way am I disputing what you said about THC, but I've been a daily thc user for the last 20 years and my sleep "feels" "fine". Maybe I haven't had a good night of sleep in 20 years and I just don't know it.

I didn't say your sleep isn't fine, I said that THC diminishes REM, which doesn't mean your sleep wont subjectively feel non restorative, but rather, that most notably memory consolidation wont be optimal. But diminished rem sleep can cause other issues too: poorer emotional control, potential cognitive issues, etc. I suggest you give this some research if you're interested.

Ofc individual variability applies, some will be worse off then others and the amount of thc consumed as also the timing of it.

Great that you have hupA in your stack. Most Heavy cannabis smokers should benefit from acetylcholinesterase inhibitors added to their stack.